UT administration after Kiffan bolted...

#53
#53
I'm not disagreeing at all or defending the Administration whatsoever. But one thing I've really wondered about lately is... since then, considering how many different programs have had to replace coaches, how many of the "sure fire" "slam dunk" "throw all the money in the world at" hires actually panned out vs those hires that were more "roll of the dice". I don't know the answer but it does seem like very few coaches since then have turned out to be "awesome hires" anywhere. The number of Smarts, Swinney's, Fisher's and certainly Saban's is pretty tiny and even the mythical "Saban tree" has been a major hit/miss situation. Heck, I thought Mullen was gonna kill at Florida... and so many of the coaches we supposedly lost out on, Frost, Brohm, etc. who were the ones we "had to throw money at" haven't done much of anything. I don't know. Just wondering.
 
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#54
#54
VOLveeta said:
I'm not disagreeing at all or defending the Administration whatsoever. But one thing I've really wondered about lately is... since then, considering how many different programs have had to replace coaches, how many of the "sure fire" "slam dunk" "throw all the money in the world at" hires actually panned out vs those hires that were more "roll of the dice". I don't know the answer but it does seem like very few coaches since then have turned out to be "awesome hires" anywhere. The number of Smarts, Swinney's, Fisher's and certainly Saban's is pretty tiny and even the mythical "Saban tree" has been a major hit/miss situation. Heck, I thought Mullen was gonna kill at Florida... and so many of the coaches we supposedly lost out on, Frost, Brohm, etc. who were the ones we "had to throw money at" haven't done much of anything. I don't know. Just wondering.
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On board with the majority of this. Will say that Brohm has established himself as a giant killer…but you need to kill the other buggers on your schedule to reach that next level status.
 
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#56
#56
UT's#1Fan said:
Glad to see adults still frequent this site... Exactly, we were too cheap. The blue print was there though with Alabama's early success with Saban. Spend the money and it still may not work out but the odds are much better going after a proven coach in contrast to going bottom barrel.
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It is not necessarily the amount Saban first received as the length of his 1st contract. It was for $32M but over 8 years. Yearly he was about the 3rd highest paid coach in the SEC (Fulmer was probably higher when he was fired). Saban earned $3.75M in 2008 and $3.9M in 2009. Now co-ordinators make more than $1M a year. Nobody knew how TV money would explode salaries at that time. Coaches didn't move around at that time unless they were fired. Much has changed since 2008 and is changing more rapidly every day. Just look at Ok/USC or LSU/ND in the past few days. Huge salaries for conference championship coaches with no NCs. With fewer and fewer proven coaches and the current quantity of big schools looking, the snowball will roll down hill and unproven coaches will be getting some large pay increases.
 
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#57
#57
Should’ve let Thompson hold it down for a year as interim until they found a real coach. Tennessee lost so much legitimacy as a program when they hired LA Tech’s coach.
 
#60
#60
I seriously doubt the President Chancellor all the Deans the Vice Presidents etc etc involve themselves with athletics at all . Probably care less. Hire the athletic director let him get do their job. Just saying unless your just talking about the athletic director then I agree.
 
#61
#61
VOLveeta said:
I'm not disagreeing at all or defending the Administration whatsoever. But one thing I've really wondered about lately is... since then, considering how many different programs have had to replace coaches, how many of the "sure fire" "slam dunk" "throw all the money in the world at" hires actually panned out vs those hires that were more "roll of the dice". I don't know the answer but it does seem like very few coaches since then have turned out to be "awesome hires" anywhere. The number of Smarts, Swinney's, Fisher's and certainly Saban's is pretty tiny and even the mythical "Saban tree" has been a major hit/miss situation. Heck, I thought Mullen was gonna kill at Florida... and so many of the coaches we supposedly lost out on, Frost, Brohm, etc. who were the ones we "had to throw money at" haven't done much of anything. I don't know. Just wondering.
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When I go back and look through the last 20 some-odd years of college football, there are only a couple of "slam dunk" hires that have actually worked out. When I consider a hire a "slam dunk" that means someone that has had high levels of sustained success in college or in the NFL.

* Jim Harbaugh - fantastic college record, completely built Stanford into a powerhouse (that faded away) and had high levels of success in the NFL. He's been at Mich for 7 years and just NOW is starting to show something. 3 10-win seasons in 6 years and 1 losing one. Michigan has more patience for him, likely due to his past success and him being a MiChIgAn MaN.

* Nick Saban (at Alabama, not LSU) - fantastic college record, found out NFL wasn't for him. Doubled at-the-time highest college coach pay at $4mil/year.



There are a LOT of "good" to "slam dunk" hires that just haven't worked out or aren't worth the money they were paid given their "blockbuster status" at time of being hired:

* Chip Kelly - This is a big one. I thought he'd dominate at UCLA. Better location than Oregon and with his past success not only at Oregon but also a good record (anything above .500 in NFL is good IMO) in the NFL, I thought he'd retake a dormant PAC-12 and turn UCLA into what USC was under Carroll.

* Jim Mora - Another UCLA failure. Guy had a .542 record at Atlanta in the NFL and, again, if you can win .500 in the NFL you should be able to win .700 in college with a MUCH weaker schedule. Didn't work out.

* Justin Fuente - took a bottom-feeder Memphis program and got them to 10 wins in their 2nd year in the AAC and then 9 wins the next. Built the program. Thought he'd do really well at Virginia Tech. Didn't work out.

* Tom Herman - 22-4 record at Houston. Fired after 4 years at Texas with a 32-18 record, 4 bowl wins, 3 Top 25 finishes.

* Charlie Strong - 37-15 record at Louisville with 23-3 in his last 2 years. Fired after 3 years at Texas and a 16-21 record.

* Scott Frost (JURY STILL OUT) - 19-7 record at UCF with a 13-0 record in his last year. So far 15-29 at Nebraska. Likely would be doing better if his school didn't sell out for money and go to the B1G where wins are definitely harder than the Big-12. Could turn it around.

* Willie Taggart - overall record isn't that good, but if you look you'll see improvement every year. Took an 0-12 WKU team to 7 wins in back-to-back years by years 2/3. Took a 3-9 USF team to 8 and then 10 wins in year 3 and 4. Connections in Florida, thought he'd do well for FSU. Fired after 2 years and a 9-12 record.

* Dan Mullen - I think Florida shot themselves here. He had a good record at a VERY hard place to win.

* Jimbo Fisher (JURY STILL OUT) - Went to A&M with a 83-23 record, 3 conf titles and 1 national title. So far he's failed to turn in anything resembling the success that A&M thought they bought. 9-4/8-5/9-1*/8-4. *Their only good win was against an 8-4 Florida team. All other SEC wins were against teams with a losing record.



Most hires are like ours... they don't work out. Otherwise the most successful players right now are Coordinator-to-HC guys (Day, Riley, Smart) that inherited good situations and improved them in a somewhat weak competition field. Day had to deal with a stumbling Mich team under Harbaugh and James Franklin who is the new Big Game Bob. Otherwise the B1G isn't exactly a powerhouse... though they're tougher than the Big-12. Riley inherited the top program in the Big-12 and just kept it rolling. Smart tookover when Florida/Tenn were still wallowing in their own filth and has done what everyone in the SEC-E has failed to do: win an SEC title.

Swinney was unproven but was given time. Nowadays he'd be fired in Year 3 for his 6-7 year. Brian Kelly has made himself an INCREDIBLY rich man by winning a bunch of pointless games and then being embarrassed on the national stage against a quality opponent.
 
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#62
#62
agent|orange said:
When I go back and look through the last 20 some-odd years of college football, there are only a couple of "slam dunk" hires that have actually worked out. When I consider a hire a "slam dunk" that means someone that has had high levels of sustained success in college or in the NFL.

* Jim Harbaugh - fantastic college record, completely built Stanford into a powerhouse (that faded away) and had high levels of success in the NFL. He's been at Mich for 7 years and just NOW is starting to show something. 3 10-win seasons in 6 years and 1 losing one. Michigan has more patience for him, likely due to his past success and him being a MiChIgAn MaN.

* Nick Saban (at Alabama, not LSU) - fantastic college record, found out NFL wasn't for him. Doubled at-the-time highest college coach pay at $4mil/year.

There are a LOT of "good" to "slam dunk" hires that just haven't worked out.... at all.

* Chip Kelly - This is a big one. I thought he'd dominate at UCLA. Better location than Oregon and with his past success not only at Oregon but also a good record (anything above .500 in NFL is good IMO) in the NFL, I thought he'd retake a dormant PAC-12 and turn UCLA into what USC was under Carroll.

* Jim Mora - Another UCLA failure. Guy had a .542 record at Atlanta in the NFL and, again, if you can win .500 in the NFL you should be able to win .700 in college with a MUCH weaker schedule. Didn't work out.

* Justin Fuente - took a bottom-feeder Memphis program and got them to 10 wins in their 2nd year in the AAC and then 9 wins the next. Built the program. Thought he'd do really well at Virginia Tech. Didn't work out.

* Tom Herman - 22-4 record at Houston. Fired after 4 years at Texas with a 32-18 record, 4 bowl wins, 3 Top 25 finishes.

* Charlie Strong - 37-15 record at Louisville with 23-3 in his last 2 years. Fired after 3 years at Texas and a 16-21 record.

* Scott Frost (JURY STILL OUT) - 19-7 record at UCF with a 13-0 record in his last year. So far 15-29 at Nebraska. Likely would be doing better if his school didn't sell out for money and go to the B1G where wins are definitely harder than the Big-12. Could turn it around.

* Willie Taggart - overall record isn't that good, but if you look you'll see improvement every year. Took an 0-12 WKU team to 7 wins in back-to-back years by years 2/3. Took a 3-9 USF team to 8 and then 10 wins in year 3 and 4. Connections in Florida, thought he'd do well for FSU. Fired after 2 years and a 9-12 record.

* Dan Mullen - I think Florida shot themselves here. He had a good record at a VERY hard place to win.
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Nicely done.

I take it you're retired.
 
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#63
#63
UT's#1Fan said:
...were BAFOONS and that's actually insulting those lovable primates.

Seeing these blue bloods make moves like this is very telling. It proves our fanbase was not crazy for wanting the best back when Kiffen bolted for USC.

Who did we get.. Derek frickin Dooley who had a losing record at La. Tech. W.T.A.Frick.

Then we follow that up with 2 equally disastrous hires in Botch and Cornbread. I just pray that we can hold onto JH and he brings us back.

Go VOLS!!!
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Well when Kiffin left, NSD was just a few days away. Time was short, and they took whoever they could get.

As to Butch, so many of Hart's first choices said no. And by the time he interviewed Jones? I figure Jones made a good impression on a road weary AD. And for whatever Butch did well, he was completely lacking in others ways.

Cornbread? Well, that whole search was a clustedfark. Some of the people involved in all of that must have been binge watching, "Game of Thrones", and getting ideas from it. Just without swords or dragons.

Who are the bluebloods you speak of? And who was the best to come back when Kiffen bolted? Fulmer? HA!
 
#65
#65
TNnative said:
Well when Kiffin left, NSD was just a few days away. Time was short, and they took whoever they could get.

As to Butch, so many of Hart's first choices said no. And by the time he interviewed Jones? I figure Jones made a good impression on a road weary AD. And for whatever Butch did well, he was completely lacking in others ways.

Cornbread? Well, that whole search was a clustedfark. Some of the people involved in all of that must have been binge watching, "Game of Thrones", and getting ideas from it. Just without swords or dragons.

Who are the bluebloods you speak of? And who was the best to come back when Kiffen bolted? Fulmer? HA!
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1. They rushed a hire to salvage the #7 class in the country. Okay, not shabby. We'll double back to this.

2. AFAIK most said "no, thanks" because of lowball offers. The UTAD was still in the mindset of "a top-flight coach doesn't cost more than $2mil/year". We tried doing bargain bin shopping and of course they said "no".

3. Pruitt was a fustercluck. No way around that, we agree on.

4. I think he's talking about how LSU dropped a 10-year/100mil contract for Kelly. It proves that you can get a top-shelf hire but you need to shell out the money for it.

5. In hindsight I think the best move would have been appointing Chaney as interim and then going for Gary Patterson at probably $4-4.5mil/year.
 
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#70
#70
UT's#1Fan said:
...were BAFOONS and that's actually insulting those lovable primates.

Seeing these blue bloods make moves like this is very telling. It proves our fanbase was not crazy for wanting the best back when Kiffen bolted for USC.

Who did we get.. Derek frickin Dooley who had a losing record at La. Tech. W.T.A.Frick.

Then we follow that up with 2 equally disastrous hires in Botch and Cornbread. I just pray that we can hold onto JH and he brings us back.

Go VOLS!!!
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One would think that if you're going to insult another persons intelligence that you'd at least proof your spelling before submission. :rolleyes:
 
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#71
#71
Voltopia said:
My guesses would be UT, the boosters, and the UTAD not being on the same page, and therefore not being able to go "all in" on big decisions with the confidence that everyone was on board, or that someone (or someones) internally sabotaged the process to some personal benefit or satisfaction.

But I'm not sure it's "just money." I think a lot of the "best" coaching candidates want to go to stable, secure coaching environments. These coaches are putting their careers and reputations on the line when they make coaching moves, and they don't want to risk that if they don't have to. Then you have Tennessee, who's cycling through coaches every three years, has to play Alabama (an almost-guaranteed loss for several years) out of their division, and whose fans openly revolt and reject coaches they don't like. Tennessee has appeared like a program in crisis for a decade now. At the macro level, these things all represent instability, which likely inflates asking prices from "the best," both in terms of money and level of control and oversight. And some, I bet, would rather just not entertain the idea at all.
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I was focusing, like the OP, on the post Fulmer time frame, but good points, a disjointed leadership likely had a lot to do with it and perhaps some with nefarious intentions. Even Kiffin at the time was seen as a young up and coming coach, seemed like they could have done better, but I agree all of those hires after were a result of the instability of the program like you said, and no amount of money would pull a successful, established coach into the mess that has been UT for the last 15 years.
 
#72
#72
Our AD was an idiot to hire an unproven loser in Kiffin in the first place. Oh he was the hot name. Bull crap. How could a guy who never coached a down in college and was a titanic loser in the NFL the hot name in college coaches? Lord we have had the dumbest ADs in college football.
 
#73
#73
CAVPUT said:
One would think that if you're going to insult another persons intelligence that you'd at least proof your spelling before submission. :rolleyes:
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Are you (and others) so dense that you couldn't tell I was intentionally misspelling Kiffin's name? It's folks like you and a handful of others in this thread that legitimize other fan bases claims of incestual breeding amongst our Vol faithful.
 
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