Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

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#70,077
#70,077
Daddy pants said:
Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I am no insider, so those looking for juice feel free to skip. It’s a long read and you’ll find no bombshells.
Background: Grew up in Knoxville and now live in another large southern city. Graduated from UT graduate school. Attended all home games as a child and had front-row seat for the Majors’ era and start of Fulmer. Attended Johnny Majors’ football camp for several years. Traveled to see Vols play in Athens, Gainesville, and Tuscaloosa. I don’t miss games on TV and follow recruiting vigorously. I casually know some low-level boosters, coaches, and former players. I am no insider, however. I just wanted to establish some level of credibility in here.
It pains me to the core to admit, but it has become clear that this program is mid-tier in terms of desirability. We are very unlikely to be able to attract a “top-tier” coach. Reasoning? Geographic-East TN is not a football hotbed. Competitive arena-“welcome to your new job, coach. Now go beat UA, UF, Uga, plus recruit against all of them, as well as Clemson, Aub,LSU, SC, UNC, and Kiffen”. Brutal.
In addition, there are somewhat intangible reasons why this is not a desirable job…currently. What’s going on with the admin? That’s for the “insiders” to tell us. I can lend a little color on that. I had a chance encounter with a Power 5 coach with UT ties who was part of the coaching discussion during one of these frustrating coaching searches over the past 13 years. He was very open with me when I asked why he would not to come to Knoxville. His explanation: large disconnect between the admin/board and AD/coach. Untenable and not built for success. He went on to explain that you won’t find that disconnect at Alabama. Now, this was pre-Boyd. Who knows if he can change this….or if he wants to.
What about illicit reasons? We can talk at length regarding amateurism and the NCAA. There are those programs that can fall back on their academic chops and the overall education package as a sell for recruits. The Stanfords, Northwesterns, Dukes and Vandys of the world. They recruit a specific type of athlete. I don’t believe that we-as vol nation-are willing to relegate ourselves to that level. The OSUs, UFs and Ugas of the world? They check all the boxes regarding attractiveness for top recruits (recent success, facilities, NFL players, strong coaches) but they also enhance those platforms financially for the families. I’ve seen those discussion happen right in front of me (not a UT recruit). It can be very intricate. These “programs” are in place, both for incoming as well as retaining players. I have a suspicion that our systems at UT are pretty good. Are they as good as say, UGa’s? You’d have to ask the players/families/handlers but until the NCAA is dissolved and the players start to win some court battles and get paid appropriately, we need to make sure our “system” is tight and competitive.
Imagine if you can, the situation you are in if you are the decision-makers here. The best analogy would be if our decision-makers are the board of directors for a company that is under-performing with an embattled CEO (JP), facing some legal or regulatory issues (NCAA), with a declining brand (we haven’t won anything in 13 years and have lost a generation of fans). It’s like Boeing, or a big tobacco company. You are simultaneously trying to find someone to rebuild the brand while dealing with the legal and financial issues associated with removing the current CEO. Don’t do it correctly and you can be sued. Plus, you now have to find someone that is substantially better to merit the burn. Is that guy out there? I truly don’t know. See above comments- the top tier coaches aren’t coming. That has been demonstrated time and time again over the past 13 years (Mullen, Brohm, Gundy, Gruden, Belichick, etc). It’s kind of embarrassing but the sooner we absorb that, the better. Hasty decisions over the past 13 years have led to our current state. So, do you consider retaining the current CEO (JP)? Aside from legal and financial considerations (I cannot comment), it seems to boil down to 3 factors. One-is there someone better out there who is willing to come? See above: unclear. Two-the labor force. In other words, the players. My opinion, the players are bigger, faster, and play football better than the previous regime. Underperforming, yes. Is there potential to increase the quality of the work force, yes (2022 class). How much does a change at the top jeopardize this? Some might say, don’t let the tail wag the dog. I would argue that without good players, there will be no success-at least not in the SEC. Lasty-how much motivation or desire does the current leadership have to remain in that position. To me, that is the most perplexing thing about our current situation. We have seen JP demonstrate some emotional attachment to this program exactly once: post-game press conference after UGA year one. The other examples of “fire” are largely related to crappy play by immature players that any coach would rightly lose their noodle over (JG facemask, Fla chalkboard). Does he truly want to be here? With huge contracts and massive buyouts, have we taken the fire from the bellies of many of these coaches? If he gets shown the door, I am not sure he would lose any sleep over this. Clearly, that is a problem.
Action plan if I mattered in this discussion? Be patient. Questions that need to be answered: 1) violations and repercussions. Don’t rush this. Be smart. 2) question 1 determines if can keep JP. 3) If can’t, who is out there? I don’t love saying this, but if can keep JP, may be wise to do so. I go back to the labor force argument. We will lose players, both coming and going that may be of scale to set us back to pre-Butch levels. Danger. Perhaps it is best to let him re-stock the cupboard (which he is doing fairly well) until he demonstrates he can coach or the right candidate comes along. In the meantime, rework his deal so that he has a little more “skin in the game.”
What if we find that we can’t keep JP? I am going to work under the assumption that in mid-january, we are looking at 2009 scenario and are looking at a Dooley-level candidate, at best (don’t give me Freeze. His record at Ole Miss was decent, but with paid players and they got caught. Huge asterisk). I would have to consider Fulmer. I’m prepared to take your punches, but look at Bill Synder’s brief return to K State and Mack in Chapel Hill. Right the ship, bring some nostalgia energy, and in Phil’s case, probably bring in some pretty good players. In meantime, look for the right guy for the long term….and let Phil’s contract reflect a graceful exit when that time comes.
What about Vol Nation? Strengths: Passion. Loyalty. Generosity. Weaknesses: often the passion can lead to irrationality and entitlement. I say this as one who has been there, time and time again. My family hates Saturdays in the fall because they know I will be a terrible mood approximately 5 to 7 out of 12 weeks per season. Often we rage because we feel the passion for the program and yet, we cannot control things. We give our all for Tennessee and expect it in return. Our emotions are on our sleeves. Unfortunately, sometimes that manifests as irrational thoughts about what does or does not need to be done to get us back to 1998. Anger and hatred towards players and coaches. We end up looking somewhat silly. It hurts the brand. We look bad in the media. Parody songs are written about us . It affects players, families, and coaches adversely. Is it possible to remodel the passion? This is one thing we CAN control. Perhaps put a classier spin on our passion? Act like we’ve been to the mountaintop before (because we have). I have to tell you, when I read this board, sometimes we come across like Va Tech or UscJr fans-those with much passion, but no credibility. I think there is a line we cross where our passion becomes a detriment. I will get bum-rushed for saying this but we do look like amateurs sometimes. So, consider this a plea to focus on what we do best without looking like we are in Blacksburg. Let’s let this situation play out and aggressively support the coaches and players left standing. GBO.
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I didn't read this novel but welcome to the nut house.
 
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#70,079
#70,079
LA Vol said:
This "bargain" narrative doesn't really apply. UT overpays coaches to underachieve. That's far from a "bargain" or "cheap."

UT has been doubling and tripling coach's salaries for a decade. Butch brought along his buddies and gave them huge pay bumps. Pruitt has kicked it up a few notches-- with assistants, facilities and support staff. The problem isn't not spending enough-- it's not getting enough out of what we put in.
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it is paying Porsche money for a KIA.

Buying a KIA paying Porsche money does not make it a Porsche....you just overpaid for something and will be disappointed in what you really got.

Better option? Pay Porsche money for a Porsche.
 
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#70,082
#70,082
I was one of those that went ballistic in the immediate aftermath of the Georgia State loss last year and we had our usual firefighters (whom I both like and respect) show up to try to calm the situation. We were told that we had people behind the scenes that were going to be helping Pruitt out because we could not afford for him to fail. I don’t know who those people behind the scenes were/are but if one of them was Fulmer (likely) then from the tone of some of the posts I’ve been reading it seems that plan may have sort of backfired. Instead of being seen as helpful the sense I get is that perhaps Fulmer is now seen as having been meddling too much.

I'm not sure I know who is or has been coaching our football team. I know we won 8 straight before we imploded. Granted, those wins should have been automatic, but we don’t always get the automatic wins so I thought it was some progress that at last we were at the time. I guess my real point is this, we need to find out who has been the real head coach of our football team in order to make sure we fire the right guy(s). jmo.

If we can't hire a man that can stand on his own two feet then my suggestion is to put the wallet back in your pocket. No sense in wasting more good money. Nothing will change. jmo.
 
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#70,084
#70,084
Smyrna ATL Vol said:
Stopped reading when you said big disconnect is causing our issues. Biggest issue is we have hired bad coaches. Pruitt has been given everything to succes, he is just not a good coach. Even if the administration and coaches don’t always see eye to eye, that has nothing to do with the coach not being able to be successful. If you coach your players up and recruit well, you will win here. Period.
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Yeah - pretty much this. Kiffin shocked Hamilton and crew so they made a panic hire in Dools after blowing it with several prospects. Then it has been one panic hire followed by another panic hire while keeping each one from Dools on a year too long. The only question is will they do it again with Jeremy.

At UT's level and upside, you hire the best available and give them what they need to succeed if you want to be successful. It's that simple. But they have not done that for a dozen years. So here we are again. UT and the AD don't have to be in lock step, although it would be good if they were. They just have to hire and fire better
 
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#70,089
#70,089
willinhf said:
Which internal applicant would you want???????
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Brain fart - I was thinking of the various instances in my experience where I know of universities finding a way to do what they want.

Point remains. If UT wants to hire a football coach the same day they fire one, they will find a way.
 
#70,091
#70,091
"It's Time" said:
He’s fine, no opinion either way. When the AD spot comes open, the guy to watch honestly, is Rick Barnes. He’s got the JUICE right now, so he’ll have an opinion. He won’t make the hire, but they will ask his opinion.
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Wow, nothing would surprise me at this point
 
#70,093
#70,093
I might adopt a second team to root for this upcoming year since Tennessee is going to be a dumpster fire for a while.

Leaning towards FSU but not real sure why.
 
#70,099
#70,099
yourstruly23 said:
Fleck built Minnesota into what they are..
Butch rode Kelly’s coattail
That’s the difference...
Come in here and win 10 games and Neyland will be full of oars rowing right down the Tennessee River
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Kill wasn’t terrible at Minnesota so he didn’t have to totally build from basement up. I do think he’s a much better coach than Butch. He actually played the game, in the NFL at that.
 
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