Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[Kingston Vol]

Is it possible we could hire BYU's head coach?

 

[GoBigOrange86]

Just read it and can't argue there. Herman does look like an upgrade over Pruitt but we will be clamoring to fire him in 3-4 years as well. I don't even know what the answer is. 95% of coaches out there will be on the hot seat here within 5 years minimum.

It sucks that we can't just find a guy who goes 8-4/9-4 consistently. We get there and then immediately regress.

The last bit here is what’s so frustrating. I really thought we were back at that level by the time 2016 rolled around, and then the bottom freaking falls out AGAIN.

2017 is so irritating. We could’ve beaten UF, South Carolina, and Kentucky. Had chances late in all of them to put them away.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

Is it possible we could hire BYU's head coach?

I don’t trust him. BYU fans wanted him fired before last year started and were still iffy on him even after beating Tennessee and Southern Cal. Their schedule this year is atrocious.

 

[Kingston Vol]

When I look at it I'm going to throw out the NC guys. They haven't played a senior season so we don't know what they have, and, quite frankly, the competition for them wasn't that great either if we're being honest.

But going down the class, we do have some nice pieces in the RB class, Salter has a chance to be really good with development (please hire a QB coach!), and of course Brooks is the best player in this class. But after them, what are we looking at? The OL class is poor and we desperately needed an elite tackle. The DL class is average with Katron Evans being the biggest piece and, again, who was our comp for him? Not that he isn't good, I'm just not sure he's an elite player there. He is ranked inside the top 200 though on the composite so we'll see.

We desperately need LB's, I like willis, but he's undersized and wouldn't surprise me to see him playing star or something. The rest of the class? The WR class is very poor, with Roc Taylor being the best piece, and he's still a 3 star. It does help to see that AU pushed for him, but outside of that, our receiver class is very poor imo. I do like the TE's, but Wolfe is coming off of a season ending injury so will he be the same again? Who know's. Campbell is good I think.

After them you've got a whole bunch of "trust the coaches" on their evaluation in Rucker, Charles, Wright, Howard, White, Jones, and Bell.

In other words, we needed to nail this class, and barring some last minute additions which, at least at this point don't seem to be happening, this class is very, very underwhelming and is not helping us close the gap with the top schools that we want to compete against. We struck out on the top targets of Mims, Green, Mondon, and TID that would have made this class much better, and now we have lost Lewis and McGhee. This isn't good.

Right, none of these guys seem to address our issues. What I'm getting at is what you're getting at, if they're betting on Pruitt turning this thing around next season, I wouldn't think anyone in this class makes the difference.

 

[Smyrna ATL Vol]

Fans tend to have a bottom-up perspective when top-down is the driver. There are plenty of VFLs who would pack Pruitt's house-- and plenty of high-level donors who're keeping their seats.

I agree it is more top level driven. As is every organization. But when you piss off those who got you to where you are from a brand perspective and 60k fans only show up. It’s a way bigger hit than what is being led on. All I’m saying is, don’t call when you want help recruiting and continue to throw s*** on the field.

 

[Aesius]

The last bit here is what’s so frustrating. I really thought we were back at that level by the time 2016 rolled around, and then the bottom freaking falls out AGAIN.

2017 is so irritating. We could’ve beaten UF, South Carolina, and Kentucky. Had chances late in all of them to put them away.

It's amazing. But it's also a good sign in a way. Butch is still an intern and Pruitt, barring a miraculous turnaround next year, likely never gets another head coaching job. So we'll have two unemployable guys who managed to win 8+ games here and beat all the SEC bottom feeders (or, in Butch's case, manage to accumulate enough talent to beat UGA and UF in the same year, down as they were at the time). That means we can hire total duds and still be third in the East at worst.

 

[MarcoVol]

Is it possible we could hire BYU's head coach?

He’s a BYU alum and Mormon. BYU might be the absolute perfect dream job for him.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Right, none of these guys seem to address our issues. What I'm getting at is what you're getting at, if they're betting on Pruitt turning this thing around next season, I wouldn't think anyone in this class makes the difference.

I'm afraid we're already in that jones territory when recruiting started to sink like that 2017 class did. It was horrid.

 

[Geronimo]

Is it possible we could hire BYU's head coach?

Is it just me or do a lot of teams owe us for their success?

We thumped Iowa. Great next year
We thumped Northwestern. They’ve been good recently
We thumped Indiana. They are top 15 team
We had BYU beat if not for stupidity. They are undefeated.

Anybody see a pattern here?

 

[jakez4ut]

I'd like to open this up to folks who are older than me: what was it that made Fulmer successful here as head coach? I was four years old in 1998, my first real memories are the 2001 season, so I've really only seen this program come down.

Is it as simple as David Cutcliffe was just that good? I think that doesn't give Fulmer his due.

Is what he did here replicable in 2020?

1. he took over at a program that was already experiencing great success, having won 2 SEC titles in the previous 3 years before he took over.
2. QB wasn't an issue with AK, Heath Suler and Peyton Manning/Brandon STewart all in the fold during his very early years
3. recruiting wasn't what it is today....it's just different now than it was then, and Fulmer was very good at it then.
4. stability on the staff. you can't discount it. it did make a difference. TN had an identity offfensively and defensively....and two coordinators that were very good....cutcliffe you could argue was elite.
5. the rest of the conf wasn't great....TN and UF were 1 and 2. Bama, Auburn, UGA, were in that 3,4, 5 spot, but none of them were at the same level TN and FL were. the rest of the conf was mediocre at best.
6. revenue sharing wasn't what it is today. top tier programs could out spend on coaches and facilities, and outspending back then wasn't millions/year. i remember when fulmer hit 1m/year salary and it was WELL in to his 16 years here, and i think it was after he won the natty? now everyone pays $2+M/year for coaches, everyone has money to upgrade facilities, and most have....the playing field for coaches' salaries, facilities etc...are more equal today than they ever have been.
7. TV...back then you still had the JP gow and ppv games. so TV exposure was still a selling point. and we were gonna be on TV, nationally 9 or 10 weeks out of 11 every year....plus bowl game....
8. no social media. oh, if there was social media...thank goodness there wasn't....
9. NFL pipeline....we were always at/near the top of any list of programs that sent kids to the NFL....

no, it's not going to be replicated in the same manner becuase most all of the dynamics of college football and the SEC in particular have changed dramatically....i don't think you'll ever see us get back to the point where we can dominate the league like we did in the 90's/earlly 00's or be one of the top 2 like we were back then.

it's crowded at the top right now, and Bama is still on top....and UGA, BAma, UF, LSU, Auburn, aTm all are headed in the same direction.

what i believe though is that this program has everything you need to be a top 10 program nationally and be in the top 4 or 5 of this conference, and being in the discussion to win the division regularly.

the only thing we don't have right now is momentum from actually doing anything on the field. we've been great at generating off season and off field mojo at various points in the past 8 years. but it has never translated to results on the field. til it does...it's just hype.

we need win a game that matters....preferrably earlier in the season so it makes later games matter more....we need to be relevant in Oct and Nov....not pitter out beore the 1st month of the season is over.

you know, beat FL in Sept more than once in 15 years, and see what you can do against UGA and Bama in October? make those games relevant for more reason than being a speed bump on UGA's or Bama's road to ATL....our season, far too many times, has been basically over after Sept., in terms of competing for the division.

and losing that game early, which is usually a big visit weekend, sucks, becuase all those big time recurits will contiue to go to games later in the year htat actually matter.

while we're dicking around with USCe, MO, Vandy, UK late in the year, those 5*'s are going to epic games UF/UGA, AUB/Bama, LSU/BAma etc......

one of the reasons i liked the fact the SEC changed the schedule around a bit and put that UGA game in November.....we need to be in games that matter later in the season....but we need to first put ourselves in position that they would matter.



tl/dr.....freaking beat somebody....earlier the better....sooner the better.

 

[LargePairOfVols]

The problem we have is- given our inherent difficulties (schedule, recruiting base) there are only a handful of coaches with the nuts to attempt this job AND do well. But, they are few and far between and pine for bigger jobs (Texas, USC, Michigan, etc). So, we are left with the overconfident, inexperienced guys that want the big time program but can’t get it done (see last 13 years).

 

[Kingston Vol]

I'm afraid we're already in that jones territory when recruiting started to sink like that 2017 class did. It was horrid.

We never got the Kirby or Kiffin class we thought we were going to get.

It's been a bunch of Butch and Dooley classes, which explains why we are where we are. You have to be able to recruit really well or develop really well. It seems like we've got our toes in both sides of the pool, excelling at neither.

 

[KB5252]

I think most reasonable people can see both sides, while aligning their perspective on one side of it. It's safe to say UT will be in a position to be more nimble next year and will have had time to vet a shortlist, gauge interest and be prepared to backchannel the hiring process. Nobody anticipated the perfect storm of 2020, which hasn't been much fun for anyone.

When it was announced the SEC would play a conference only schedule I knew that would really illustrate the difference between the haves and the have nots. I didn't count on two very ugly losses this year. The program is stuck in a ditch. If we play a conference only schedule again I don't have much confidence Pruitt can survive a similar schedule without cupcakes.

 

[05_never_again]

Is it just me or do a lot of teams owe us for their success?

We thumped Iowa. Great next year
We thumped Northwestern. They’ve been good recently
We thumped Indiana. They are top 15 team
We had BYU beat if not for stupidity. They are undefeated.

Anybody see a pattern here?

Their victory over us helped BYU's head coach get off a serious hot seat too. They were terrible the previous season.

 

[Smyrna ATL Vol]

Our recruiting class is really disappointing

Everything about our football program is disappointing.

 

[BruinVol]

Imagine thinking that calling and saying it to Pruitts face is worse than hiding behind a message board.

Your standards on what makes the same words classless is self serving and delusional. You are exactly what you claim to hate and lying to yourself about it is pretty damn sad.

pretty shocking that you can’t see the public responses to the idiot that called vol calls and notice that a message board post means nothing in terms of public perception.

Also the reactions to the vol
Calls Idiot here even by the Pruitt haters were disgust

So I’m not surprised you don’t understand the difference. Kind of like an idiot thinking tweeting directly at JGs family is the same as message board criticism and appropriate. Idiotic

 

[VolGee4]

I disagree on many points. I think most coaches are driven by money more than they are competing.

I completely disagree on the players working their asses off also. Most professional athletes do not work very hard, at all. Of course you can point to some QBs that work hard but those position guys are not working their asses off every day. Leveon Bell being one of the worst comes to mind.

Pruitt has pretty much appeared uninterested since he got here, to me. I think that's why people call him dumb bc he just shows no emotion, fire, anything. Everything seems to be going over his head, or imo he's just apathetic about the job and has been since year 1.

Thanks for the take, Bammer. What a horrible take that most are driven by money. Coaches don't work half their careers as assistants with the constant grind simply because of the money. Some don't even make it to the top for money.

Human nature is that people want to succeed at what they do. In football, that means winning games. No one wants to be a failure, especially in a public position. The byproduct of success is being able to make alot of money.
I cringe all the time when I hear comments about coaches having it great when they get fired. Sure, the money doesn't hurt, but life is more than money. Happiness, stability, family happiness, success, praise are all things humans crave for, and when head coaches lose at places like UT, life gets really uncomfortable for the coach and his family. How many jokes has Butch Jones been a part of the last few years? I would venture to guess that he would give up a decent chunk of change to make all of that go away for him and his family. It's just a simpleton view of how this works.

I guess Pruitt was uninterested when he hit the white board during the game, yelled at officials multiple times, and grabbed JG's facemask last year.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

We never got the Kirby or Kiffin class we thought we were going to get.

It's been a bunch of Butch and Dooley classes, which explains why we are where we are. You have to be able to recruit really well or develop really well. It seems like we've got our toes in both sides of the pool, excelling at neither.

I really liked the 2020 class. I think there is loads of talent in that class. The 2019 class had some pieces to. Development has been extremely lacking as you have said. Crouch, one of the guys I was most excited about, has done nothing. But this class is not good. Pruitt better hope that Salter is an absolute game changer and that Brooks sticks

 

[Kingston Vol]

When it was announced the SEC would play a conference only schedule I knew that would really illustrate the difference between the haves and the have nots. I didn't count on two very ugly losses this year. The program is stuck in a ditch. If we play a conference only schedule again I don't have much confidence Pruitt can survive a similar schedule without cupcakes.

He's proven the cupcakes are no gimme either.

 

[rjd970]

If he can average winning 8 out of our 12 games a year, yes.

No thanks unless it includes wins over at least 2 of the big 3.

Bama is about to roll off 20 in a row against us. I don’t care what kind of run they are having, we should be able to luck into at least 1 win. UGA and FLA should at least be winnable games every year.

Pruitt should be held to this same standard as well.

 

[Kingston Vol]

I really liked the 2020 class. I think there is loads of talent in that class. The 2019 class had some pieces to. Development has been extremely lacking as you have said. Crouch, one of the guys I was most excited about, has done nothing. But this class is not good. Pruitt better hope that Salter is an absolute game changer and that Brooks sticks

Yeah, I'd say last year's class was good enough to overcome slight coaching malpractice, they just aren't ready to play yet.

If you don't have a good football coach, you need four of those classes.

 

[SLICKYINC]

Their victory over us helped BYU's head coach get off a serious hot seat too. They were terrible the previous season.

Of course but I’d lean more toward Zac Wilson helping him get off the hot seat. Weird how letting a QB get time to develop during real game time does that.

 

[UTSuave’]

I am actually going to the game Saturday. Last time I watched the Florida game in person we won. Just sayin.

If Bailey beats Florida or wins out....it will definitely be like 98’ around here and recruiting will pick back up again!...Pruitt will get flamed for not playing him sooner

 

[butchna]

Hell, only 2 of the 4 guys we've hired post-Fulmer has actually gotten there. Butch and Pruitt. And Pruitt (in all likelihood) is going to do it in just one season.

I think Herman's ceiling here would be 9-3, with losses to the Big 3. Nobody will say this today since we're in the gutter, but that'd be fun for about 2 years, and then we'd want to run him off as you said. Especially if he was getting blown out by the Big 3 with any regularity.

I think he’d both recruit AND coach it up better than anybody we’ve had since Dickey. Texas has been sobering and that’s interesting considering the relative success he’s had there. He really embraced the Longhorn tradition and culture and prolly took it too far in that aspect. I’d equate him to a Dan Mullen who can recruit at an elite level.

 

[StoVol]

We should've hired Mark Right to consistently get to 10-2, fired him after getting sick of that, and then be sitting here right now wondering who to hire from that window, rather than this one