George Floyd Protest/Riots

#6,505
#6,505
0nelilreb said:
Haven’t you heard , Covid isnt contagious if there’s a worthy cause being heralded and endorsed by the media . A deadly virus on vacation. Smh
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A couple of weeks ago anyone in groups of more than 10 were selfish and going to kill every old person they met now groups of thousands are celebrated walking together. Also people opening their salons were arrested, now people burning buildings, beating women with 2x4s and killing cops are celebrated.
 
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#6,506
#6,506
volfanjustin said:
A couple of weeks ago anyone in groups of more than 10 were selfish and going to kill every old person they met now groups of thousands are celebrated walking together. Also people opening their salons were arrested, now people burning buildings, beating women with 2x4s and killing cops are celebrated.
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Last week I was going to have my teeth knocked out of my ass if I got to close to someone while not wearing a mask . I’m waiting on my buddy to give us a report on how many teeth he’s knocked out in the last week . 😂
 
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#6,507
#6,507
NCFisher said:
You’re reading a bit much into it and I should be more literal, I guess. I know overcharging occurs and generally why, and stated "we don’t overcharge AND over-convict on emotion". That is a statement - a rebuttal to emotion - of what we should never do, and expressed that in the interest of preserving “rule of law.” The Man 2 charge is the fallback position.

It is not an expression that he should go scott-free, or would in the face of lesser charges. I do want him to ‘walk’ – be found not guilty – of the Murder 2 charge unless he’s found to have deliberately killed Floyd. That said, were it the only charge, I’d definitely want him to go free rather than be mob convicted unjustly.

It wasn't about how "great" suspects are treated, but your minimization of what occurred. You equated the FBI and Mueller investigations with just shite that happens to "any suspected criminal" when Horowitz, Barr, and now Rosenstein have said that is clearly not the case in the most high-profile, unprecedented probes in U.S. history by our premier agencies. Dunning/Kruger that, smart guy.

BTW, I knew you'd say that; you've become pitifully pedantic. As a personal favor, could you extend yourself a bit? Thanks friend!
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That’s not a very credible pivot from “The Jury considers the charges the prosecutor introduces” or whatever you said, but I guess you don’t make partner at Dunning & Kruger by admitting you were wrong. I’ll accept it as close enough.

The murder 2 charge probably opens up additional lesser offenses because it adds the element of a mental state requirement. Determining what constitutes a “lesser included” is a complicated process that I’m not even going to attempt for a state that I don’t practice in.

There are almost never disadvantages to overcharging. And the idea that it isn’t done for emotional gratification of victims, the public, or to manipulate the emotions of the defendant is still a romanticized view. The prosecutor is an elected politician in most jurisdictions, after all.

The reality is that the court system is motivated by pretty much one thing: efficiently churning through the process of obtaining convictions.

Weren’t you making the point earlier that cops see ****** people all the time and it impacts their perception? Maybe that was somebody else, but it’s true. It’s true for judges and prosecutors, too.

So what happens to judges and prosecutors when they get to that point? A conviction becomes justice. “If this guy didn’t do this, he probably deserves to be in convicted for something.”

At that point, it’s all about how to get “justice” done with as little work as possible. And the rules governing acceptable procedures have adapted themselves to that locomotor.

The least efficient manner of obtaining convictions is a trial and could possible deter a trial more than ratcheting up the defendant’s exposure and telling him to put his life in the hands of 12 strangers?
 
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#6,512
#6,512
0nelilreb said:
Last week I was going to have my teeth knocked out of my ass if I got to close to someone while not wearing a mask . I’m waiting on my buddy to give us a report on how many teeth he’s knocked out in the last week . 😂
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To recap the latest liberal logic: getting your haircut is bad and evil, but if you are rioting YAY
 
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#6,520
#6,520
Weezer said:
I wish I could go to the bank and pull out 10k just to "play her ass". Maybe some on here can, but that's not me.
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I was agreeing and saying yep, I’ve had that happen to me on everything he said up until that point, then I was like damn, must be nice to be gifted enough to excel at a sport that pays you millions. Go Alvin!

We have a stereotyping issue in this country more than a racism issue.

People still respond poorly to white people that wear motorcycle clothing and have tattoos or piercings. It’s happening to me for the last 40 years.
 
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#6,522
#6,522
Zeppy you said you have many friends down there, can you tell me this ones name? I promise I won’t say anything
 
#6,525
#6,525
RockyTop85 said:
That’s not a very credible pivot from “The Jury considers the charges the prosecutor introduces” or whatever you said, but I guess you don’t make partner at Dunning & Kruger by admitting you were wrong. I’ll accept it as close enough.

The murder 2 charge probably opens up additional lesser offenses because it adds the element of a mental state requirement. Determining what constitutes a “lesser included” is a complicated process that I’m not even going to attempt for a state that I don’t practice in.

There are almost never disadvantages to overcharging. And the idea that it isn’t done for emotional gratification of victims, the public, or to manipulate the emotions of the defendant is still a romanticized view. The prosecutor is an elected politician in most jurisdictions, after all.

The reality is that the court system is motivated by pretty much one thing: efficiently churning through the process of obtaining convictions.

Weren’t you making the point earlier that cops see ****** people all the time and it impacts their perception? Maybe that was somebody else, but it’s true. It’s true for judges and prosecutors, too.

So what happens to judges and prosecutors when they get to that point? A conviction becomes justice. “If this guy didn’t do this, he probably deserves to be in convicted for something.”

At that point, it’s all about how to get “justice” done with as little work as possible. And the rules governing acceptable procedures have adapted themselves to that locomotor.

The least efficient manner of obtaining convictions is a trial and could possible deter a trial more than ratcheting up the defendant’s exposure and telling him to put his life in the hands of 12 strangers?
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Over charging/multiple charges puts pressure on the defendant to make a deal.

The system is set up to make deals.

There are not enough courtrooms, judges, or prosecutors to be able to take every case to trial. Not even close. Judges, as a matter of routine, encourage parties to negotiate a plea.

I don't know the exact percentage of cases that are plead out but it would surprise me if it were less than 90%.

Some links on the subject.

Only 2% of federal criminal defendants go to trial, and most who do are found guilty

Most criminal cases end in plea bargains, not trials

How many criminal cases actually go to trial?

The Rise of Plea Bargains and Fall of the Right to Trial | ACS
 
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