To Protect and to Serve II

[Orangeslice13]

That seems crazy.

Yup.
You should definitely avoid being black while around the police

 

[37L1]

Do you really think that filling out a piece of paper is enough to change anything with these cops? I'm asking seriously because I can't believe you are that naïve.

Naive is an unrealistic belief without real experience to back it up. I'm not naive.

FYI, a process is begun once that "filling out a piece of paper" has been completed in many/most jurisdictions. Depending on the alleged misconduct, a lot of things can happen including immediate suspension with pay pending the completion of an I/A investigation which could ultimately include termination and criminal charges. Yes, it does happen. Other discipline can occur depending on the nature of the complaint and the findings of the investigation.

Ultimately, it is the head of the department that sets the tone of how complaints are handled. The procedures for handling complaints are written as part of the agency's general orders/rules and procedures. They are drawn up from general practices of most departments/police organizations/police professional standards, massaged/blessed by attorneys and signed by the department head as approved policy. She/he sets the standards by which the personnel are supposed to conduct themselves. That's where I would look if you are unhappy/dissatisfied with a particular agency's behavior.

Those agency complaint procedures are public information. You have the ability to ask for them from any agency that you may be interested in. Many have them on line like this one (first one on search):

Complaint About Police

What do you mean by "these cops"? Is it all cops in general or what?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Naive is an unrealistic belief without real experience to back it up. I'm not naive.

FYI, a process is begun once that "filling out a piece of paper" has been completed in many/most jurisdictions. Depending on the alleged misconduct, a lot of things can happen including immediate suspension with pay pending the completion of an I/A investigation which could ultimately include termination and criminal charges. Yes, it does happen. Other discipline can occur depending on the nature of the complaint and the findings of the investigation.

Ultimately, it is the head of the department that sets the tone of how complaints are handled. The procedures for handling complaints are written as part of the agency's general orders/rules and procedures. They are drawn up from general practices of most departments/police organizations/police professional standards, massaged/blessed by attorneys and signed by the department head as approved policy. She/he sets the standards by which the personnel are supposed to conduct themselves. That's where I would look if you are unhappy/dissatisfied with a particular agency's behavior.

Those agency complaint procedures are public information. You have the ability to ask for them from any agency that you may be interested in. Many have them on line like this one (first one on search):

Complaint About Police

What do you mean by "these cops"? Is it all cops in general or what?

He believes all cops and laws are bad

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

What do you mean by "these cops"? Is it all cops in general or what?

I'm generalizing. There are good cops and bad cops. Can't paint a broad brush.

Anyways, I'm sure cops look at the media or are aware of these police/civilian incidents. I would probably mean more and be more effective if cops actually were the ones that initiated the necessary change without the people having to fuss and complain. Certainly, they can see a need for improvement, can't they? Also, it would be nice if the cops collectively sent a message to all lawmakers that they are no longer going to enforce their unconstitutional laws and mandates... that includes this nonsense we had with this China Virus where civil liberties were trampled on as the cops zealous enforced these executive orders (not laws, orders).

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

He believes all cops and laws are bad

No, let me be crystal clear. I think there are far too many bad cops, not all cops.

I also think that there are far too many laws, some of which are unconstitutional.

The bad cops zealously enforce bad laws. Or the bad cops don't enforce the laws fairly and equally. Or the bad cops exhibit little to no discernment and discretion when it comes to enforcing laws. Not every infraction needs to end in an arrest or a citation.

 

[NCFisher]

I apologize if I misunderstood or misrepresented you.
That was not my intention.

In 2020 with what we know about DNA, anyone who thinks they’re better/worse than another person based on pigmentations is a ****ing moron.
Having said that .........death by police is the 6th leading cause of death in African American men. That’s a problem that needs to be solved

It has nothing to do with DNA but simple fact that black Americans are violent criminal offenders at grossly disproportionate rates to their population, including the murder of officers. Their 13% of the population account for more than half of all murder and robberies, and have for decades. Table 43

But thanks for resorting to "racism!" anyway. Not even being able to discuss the problems within the black community even academically/ sociologically is only prolonging the problem. Hell, the NAACP webpage has plenty of room for climate justice, fat justice, and media justice but no room to talk about the elephant in the room - black people killing black people. For example, in 2018 blacks were responsible for 88% of black homicide victims. Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

Your statistic isn't accurate. Police homicides run about 1000 yearly, and approximately 25% will be black and 50% white, or about 250 blacks. In 2017, for example, CDC shows 9908 blacks were homicide victims (justifiable and murder) and that was the 7th leading cause of death among black men. About 8719 (88%) would have been killed by black offenders and 1189 by all other races. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_06-508.pdf (page 12). You can also refer to page 34 for Non-Hispanic black, male, all ages

CDC lists 16 leading causes of death. For black Americans, at #16 is suicide at 2940, which would be more than 10x as many as the potential 250 that may have been killed by police. So, while homicide figures large in black deaths, police killings are not the 6th leading cause of their deaths.

Consider what is being said next time before piping off about "morons".

 

[NCFisher]

In that particular incident, it wasn't a violation. But the city should have never closed the park down to begin with.

My main point is mainly directed at far better cases and examples of cops enforcing gatherings at churches and restaurants and using force to do so. Totally uncalled for and unconstitutional.

They lawmakers are also the problem. I agree. But that doesn't mean that the police need to enforce these unconstitutional laws.

How hard is that for you to understand?

How hard is it to understand that what you consider unconstitutional may be entirely subjective, your bias?

I may not like a recreation area being closed but what I like has no force of law. I think the restrictions have gone on too long, but can't logically argue that restrictions were completely unfounded initially, nor that they were unconstitutional. LEOs are not constitutional lawyers, and I'd be damned hesitant about them staying at a Holiday Inn Express, assuming they are, and selectively enforcing laws.

I think churches and businesses should peacefully disobey en masse, and not take bad executive orders/laws out on police. They can easily overwhelm the ability to enforce in that manner, tossing the bag back into the law-makers' laps.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

How hard is it to understand that what you consider unconstitutional may be entirely subjective, your bias?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It is the very first amendment and these police were out here enforcing executive orders that violated the 1st Amendment.

I may not like a recreation area being closed but what I like has no force of law.

This is where protesting comes into play. Because what they did was not a law, but an executive order. Laws are created by the legislature. You do realize this, right? None of these shutdowns were legal because they were not based on law.

I think the restrictions have gone on too long, but can't logically argue that restrictions were completely unfounded initially, nor that they were unconstitutional. LEOs are not constitutional lawyers, and I'd be damned hesitant about them staying at a Holiday Inn Express, assuming they are, and selectively enforcing laws.

So the very people that we entrust with having a gun and a badge, we shouldn't entrust in knowing the Constitution? Something that they take an oath to uphold?

Make sense of that.

 

[SandoVOL]

It has nothing to do with DNA but simple fact that black Americans are violent criminal offenders at grossly disproportionate rates to their population, including the murder of officers. Their 13% of the population account for more than half of all murder and robberies, and have for decades. Table 43

But thanks for resorting to "racism!" anyway. Not even being able to discuss the problems within the black community even academically/ sociologically is only prolonging the problem. Hell, the NAACP webpage has plenty of room for climate justice, fat justice, and media justice but no room to talk about the elephant in the room - black people killing black people. For example, in 2018 blacks were responsible for 88% of black homicide victims. Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

Your statistic isn't accurate. Police homicides run about 1000 yearly, and approximately 25% will be black and 50% white, or about 250 blacks. In 2017, for example, CDC shows 9908 blacks were homicide victims (justifiable and murder) and that was the 7th leading cause of death among black men. About 8719 (88%) would have been killed by black offenders and 1189 by all other races. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_06-508.pdf (page 12). You can also refer to page 34 for Non-Hispanic black, male, all ages

CDC lists 16 leading causes of death. For black Americans, at #16 is suicide at 2940, which would be more than 10x as many as the potential 250 that may have been killed by police. So, while homicide figures large in black deaths, police killings are not the 6th leading cause of their deaths.

Consider what is being said next time before piping off about "morons".

The Death by police stat doesn't account for the race of the police officer either yea? which if you are playing the race card it doesn't put the numbers their favor. Unless we don't consider minority police officers minorites...

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[rgx]

Police: Sixth-leading cause of death for young black men

There are no hard numbers in that article. Only a correlation of deaths per 100,000. I would also like to know what they classify as “medical emergency” and how that is related to police interaction? What age group classifies as young black males?

I would guess the stats are cherry picked to fit the researchers original thesis. Even if deaths caused by police are under reported by 50% from the CDC. That would be approximately 300 deaths a year on average. I find it hard to belive that 300 deaths in a year is top 6 cause for approximately 21,000,000 black males.

 

[Orangeslice13]

It has nothing to do with DNA but simple fact that black Americans are violent criminal offenders at grossly disproportionate rates to their population, including the murder of officers. Their 13% of the population account for more than half of all murder and robberies, and have for decades. Table 43

But thanks for resorting to "racism!" anyway. Not even being able to discuss the problems within the black community even academically/ sociologically is only prolonging the problem. Hell, the NAACP webpage has plenty of room for climate justice, fat justice, and media justice but no room to talk about the elephant in the room - black people killing black people. For example, in 2018 blacks were responsible for 88% of black homicide victims. Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

Your statistic isn't accurate. Police homicides run about 1000 yearly, and approximately 25% will be black and 50% white, or about 250 blacks. In 2017, for example, CDC shows 9908 blacks were homicide victims (justifiable and murder) and that was the 7th leading cause of death among black men. About 8719 (88%) would have been killed by black offenders and 1189 by all other races. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_06-508.pdf (page 12). You can also refer to page 34 for Non-Hispanic black, male, all ages

CDC lists 16 leading causes of death. For black Americans, at #16 is suicide at 2940, which would be more than 10x as many as the potential 250 that may have been killed by police. So, while homicide figures large in black deaths, police killings are not the 6th leading cause of their deaths.

Consider what is being said next time before piping off about "morons".

Edit:
If you think skin color makes a difference then you’re a ****ing moron.
Let’s see your table on how black people are investigated, charged, and sentenced compared to others.
DNA proves there’s no difference in us.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Edit: comment removed

This is a police problem that extends beyond systemic racism which is just a small part of it.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Justin Amash for president.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

 

[Orangeslice13]

Just before all this corona crap started I’m having lunch at Applebee’s with an employee a sub contractor and his employee. A police officer approached the table and said that someone had called the police because he had “misplaced” his wallet and thought he had maybe dropped it in the bathroom. I spoke up and said nobody at our table had been to the restroom. The officer said that the person had said he saw Nate (the black guy) go to the restroom. I again said “he’s mistaken, nobody here has been to the restroom”. The officer said to Nate “will you allow me to search you?” I told Nate “don’t do it, I’m calling the lawyer “ who I have on retainer. The police officer said to me “would you like to be arrested for disrupting the peace?” I said “hold on, when he answers and tells me how to answer you I’ll let you know”. 25 minutes later the officer left us alone and Nate remained un-searched. The only thing Nate did wrong was being a black business owner and my friend. The experience of Being around my black friends has taught me to be glad I’m Jewish so everyone thinks I’m white.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Just before all this corona crap started I’m having lunch at Applebee’s with an employee a sub contractor and his employee. A police officer approached the table and said that someone had called the police because he had “misplaced” his wallet and thought he had maybe dropped it in the bathroom. I spoke up and said nobody at our table had been to the restroom. The officer said that the person had said he saw Nate (the black guy) go to the restroom. I again said “he’s mistaken, nobody here has been to the restroom”. The officer said to Nate “will you allow me to search you?” I told Nate “don’t do it, I’m calling the lawyer “ who I have on retainer. The police officer said to me “would you like to be arrested for disrupting the peace?” I said “hold on, when he answers and tells me how to answer you I’ll let you know”. 25 minutes later the officer left us alone and Nate remained un-searched. The only thing Nate did wrong was being a black business owner and my friend. The experience of Being around my black friends has taught me to be glad I’m Jewish so everyone thinks I’m white.

You mean you’re not a white boy? All this time, I thought Jews were just regular white boys like me.... just better with managing their money.

 

[FLVOL_79]

I would like to see the source for death by police being the 6th leading cause of death for AA men.

CDC says otherwise:
From the CDC-Leading Causes of Death-Non-Hispanic Black Males 2016

Yeah..not as many people die from cops as the media wants you to believe. A month during the summer in Chicago or Baltimore is worse.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Police: Sixth-leading cause of death for young black men

That article is dubious. Zero reference to the study, no actual citations of data..and if any old Joe does minor research you'll find the average rate of black person death by cop over the past decade is around 0.0008%, and I adjusted that for black males only. Its mostly 200ish people a year. 200 deaths a year doesnt land you on any top 10 list.

Black males have a 200% higher chance of drowning in a pool than being shot by a cop for instance.

 

[bnhunt]

NYC paid out $220 million to citizens due to police misconduct in 2018. That is an amazing stat, but according to most of you it is probably all just BS.

 

[Orangeslice13]

You mean you’re not a white boy? All this time, I thought Jews were just regular white boys like me.... just better with managing their money.

We’re all the same in my book.
We should go kayak fishing soon. Might even try and take pig with us

 

[Orangeslice13]

That article is dubious. Zero reference to the study, no actual citations of data..and if any old Joe does minor research you'll find the average rate of black person death by cop over the past decade is around 0.0008%, and I adjusted that for black males only. Its mostly 200ish people a year. 200 deaths a year doesnt land you on any top 10 list.

Black males have a 200% higher chance of drowning in a pool than being shot by a cop for instance.

is that with or without the police holding them under water

 

[FLVOL_79]

is that with or without the police holding them under water

Oh..good question! 4500 drownings the other year..probably half were cops holding them down. Dang, my statistics blown up.

In all seriousness I'd say about 95% of cop shooting deaths probably could have been avoided with non lethal means.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Oh..good question! 4500 drownings the other year..probably half were cops holding them down. Dang, my statistics blown up.

In all seriousness I'd say about 95% of cop shooting deaths probably could have been avoided with non lethal means.

I caused this distraction by bringing race into it. The racism is a small part of a larger policing problem.
I think we would agree it’s a training and accountability problem that’s the real issue. We solve those and we clear up a lot of things.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Now that is a step in the right direction.