Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#34,651
#34,651
volfanjustin said:
“No but people like stew were willing to let the economy crash back in 2020 so the government passed a $ 2 trillion stimulus package”
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The more I think about this stimulus package and the more I talk with people about it the more I get pissed off about it. One I have lost all faith in our government (congress + senate) for using a time of crisis to push dollars to their political agendas this one right here is the biggie for me. But as I have thought about it here are a couple of things:

1. I have not been laid off from my job. I do not require this check as of right now. That's not saying I won't need it in the future but I sure do not need it right now. Please do not send me the check if I am not in need and please send the checks to those who are in need.

2. If you were already getting government assistance with food stamps or housing you do not need this check either. The two most essential things at this time for those who have lost their jobs is food and shelter. If the government is already providing for 1 of those you need to cut it in half if the government is providing for both you do not need a check.

3. If you are not a US citizen and you have not paid taxes you do not deserve to receive money. Seeing that California and Chicago are going to awarding stimulus money to illegals is ridiculous! It needs to go to your hard working citizens who are truly effected by this pandemic.

4. They should have had a penalty clause for special interest groups who received money ala. the Kennedy Center. If you just received millions of dollars from the government that you were not originally accounting on getting you do not need to lay off your people. If you do so you should be immediately voided the money awarded and the money should go to those you are truly in need.

The purpose of this package is to provide security to those who have lost their jobs and are truly in need. The more I read and the more I talk about it the more I am confirmed that this supposed "stimulus package" is not going to the right people.

Sorry for the rant but this thing is absolutely ridiculous to me.
 
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#34,652
#34,652
volfanjustin said:
I promise you I won’t die from this flu bug, but let’s look at it from your families angle.
“Was bread always $15 a loaf, grandma?”
“No but people like stew were willing to let the economy crash back in 2020 so the government passed a $ 2 trillion stimulus package”

“Did we always let the government use our cell phones to track us so they could make us stay home if they wanted to, grandma?”
“No but there were millions of little bitches like stew who were all too willing to give up their liberty and freedom over a flu bug”
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Trump gonna take everybody's guns!
 
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#34,653
#34,653
BisonVol said:
I agree it is broken, but I don't free healthcare is the answer either. For healthcare to be adequate, there has to be profit in it. Finding the happy medium between 'free' and where it is now will be the trick to fixing the system.
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I never said it should be free. I said it should either be affordable or that we need Medicare for all. Which would be funded by taxes and end up being cheaper than what most people already pay in medical insurance giving most people a net savings.
 
#34,654
#34,654
volfan_89 said:
I never said it should be free. I said it should either be affordable or that we need Medicare for all. Which would be funded by taxes and end up being cheaper than what most people already pay in medical insurance giving most people a net savings.
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So then you live in a society with government funded health care, who decides who lives and who dies?
 
#34,656
#34,656
BisonVol said:
I agree it is broken, but I don't free healthcare is the answer either. For healthcare to be adequate, there has to be profit in it. Finding the happy medium between 'free' and where it is now will be the trick to fixing the system.
Click to expand...

I think the notion that having "free" or taxpayer funded healthcare would exclude for-profit healthcare is a red herring. I imagine some have suggested banning profit-driven healthcare would be a requirement, but that seems very unrealistic.
 
#34,657
#34,657
Smokey'sHandler said:
The more I think about this stimulus package and the more I talk with people about it the more I get pissed off about it. One I have lost all faith in our government (congress + senate) for using a time of crisis to push dollars to their political agendas this one right here is the biggie for me. But as I have thought about it here are a couple of things:

1. I have not been laid off from my job. I do not require this check as of right now. That's not saying I won't need it in the future but I sure do not need it right now. Please do not send me the check if I am not in need and please send the checks to those who are in need.

2. If you were already getting government assistance with food stamps or housing you do not need this check either. The two most essential things at this time for those who have lost their jobs is food and shelter. If the government is already providing for 1 of those you need to cut it in half if the government is providing for both you do not need a check.

3. If you are not a US citizen and you have not paid taxes you do not deserve to receive money. Seeing that California and Chicago are going to awarding stimulus money to illegals is ridiculous! It needs to go to your hard working citizens who are truly effected by this pandemic.

4. They should have had a penalty clause for special interest groups who received money ala. the Kennedy Center. If you just received millions of dollars from the government that you were not originally accounting on getting you do not need to lay off your people. If you do so you should be immediately voided the money awarded and the money should go to those you are truly in need.

The purpose of this package is to provide security to those who have lost their jobs and are truly in need. The more I read and the more I talk about it the more I am confirmed that this supposed "stimulus package" is not going to the right people.

Sorry for the rant but this thing is absolutely ridiculous to me.
Click to expand...
You are right, I have had my pay reduced 15% and still don’t need the check. The government created a problem by shutting the country down and now they feel they need to solve the problem by handing out cash. Typical. They know our freedoms and liberty are for sale
 
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#34,659
#34,659
Smokey'sHandler said:
The more I think about this stimulus package and the more I talk with people about it the more I get pissed off about it. One I have lost all faith in our government (congress + senate) for using a time of crisis to push dollars to their political agendas this one right here is the biggie for me. But as I have thought about it here are a couple of things:

1. I have not been laid off from my job. I do not require this check as of right now. That's not saying I won't need it in the future but I sure do not need it right now. Please do not send me the check if I am not in need and please send the checks to those who are in need.

2. If you were already getting government assistance with food stamps or housing you do not need this check either. The two most essential things at this time for those who have lost their jobs is food and shelter. If the government is already providing for 1 of those you need to cut it in half if the government is providing for both you do not need a check.

3. If you are not a US citizen and you have not paid taxes you do not deserve to receive money. Seeing that California and Chicago are going to awarding stimulus money to illegals is ridiculous! It needs to go to your hard working citizens who are truly effected by this pandemic.

4. They should have had a penalty clause for special interest groups who received money ala. the Kennedy Center. If you just received millions of dollars from the government that you were not originally accounting on getting you do not need to lay off your people. If you do so you should be immediately voided the money awarded and the money should go to those you are truly in need.

The purpose of this package is to provide security to those who have lost their jobs and are truly in need. The more I read and the more I talk about it the more I am confirmed that this supposed "stimulus package" is not going to the right people.

Sorry for the rant but this thing is absolutely ridiculous to me.
Click to expand...

IMO the thinking of R's and D's is there's not enough disposable income from the consumer base to kick start this economy.
 
#34,660
#34,660
Volsfaninva917 said:
So then you live in a society with government funded health care, who decides who lives and who dies?
Click to expand...
This is a good question.
With private insurance, who decides who lives and who dies? Is it an insurance company representative deciding what treatments are covered? Have we surrendered that authority to that company just because they're paying the bills? If so, what does that say about us?
Hog is spot on, though, about the profit motive leading to breakthroughs.
 
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#34,662
#34,662
allvol123 said:
I put it all in bold type to help you read it.
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And what exactly do you think I’m saying there?

There’s only one variable and it’s the governors?

Inconsistency of governor response is why we have an error in a projection from April?

Is that me patting myself on the back?

I’ve evidently said all that stuff. Show me where.
 
#34,665
#34,665
Mick said:
When demand increases you would expect stocks to go up. I would have never guessed Obama was a Capitalist that propped up the economy and stock market with his Socialist ACA.
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With nationalization off the table, O was an incidental capitalist.
 
#34,666
#34,666
OK, time for me to be a bit of a Debbie Downer.

Caveat: Cuomo says hospital admissions are going down - and that is solid data. So hopefully will be a positive sign for things to come. However, I'm not as confident as I was before today that this actually reflects cases peaking. It could - but the testing actually doesn't support that. Again - I wonder if hospital admission is dropping because more and more people are being given hydroxychloroquine before arriving at the hospital. But - that should be an easy question? Did Cuomo lift his ban on prescribing HCQ outside of urgent care or hospitals? If not, then I would have to question if that is what is causing the drop.

Anyway - the reason I'm not confident that the testing suggests we have reached peak NY new cases/day is below.

I pulled all the positive + negative test data from New York and compared their trend in positive /day vs. total tests / day. We are basing a lot of our optimism in New York around the fact that new cases / day are dropping. However, here are the data.

Optimistic: Cases/Day Peaked in NY

3/30 6984
3/31 9298
4/1 7917
4/2 8669
4/3 10482 (Peak)
4/4 10841 (Peak)
4/5 8327
4/6 8658
4/7 8174
4/8 10453 (Uh-Oh)

Pessimism Total Tests / Day Peak in NY

3/30 14108
3/31 18718
4/1 15694
4/2 18085
4/3 21555 (Peak)
4/4 23101 (Peak)
4/5 18659
4/6 18531
4/7 19247
4/8 25095 (Hmm....)

We cleared about 40,000 pending tests over the weekend of April 3/4 nationally. Some of these must have been in NY because you see a clear spike up over that weekend in tests/day. But, you also see that is what we "saw" as the peak cases in NY. In fact, we ran about 3-4k new cases, and surprise, we had 1.5-2k more cases on those days because we are basically running at 50% positive tests in NY.

I'm not so confident this is peaking there.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

Or at least, hopefully hospital admissions are peaking due to treatments (if not case numbers) and we'll see fewer deaths/day starting sometime next week perhaps.

Honestly it is better if cases are still growing but deaths start going down. Because we'll hit herd immunity with fewer deaths that way vs. keeping people from getting infected by social distancing, but then having a hard time getting back to work without it blowing up again.
​
 
#34,669
#34,669
West Vol said:
That’s debatable.
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Sure it might be slower. One of the nurse managers where I work is from Canada and has firsthand experience working in their healthcare system. Things are slower but you do get what you need and it’s paid for through taxes. It may not be the answer but it’s a better system than what we have so far.
 
#34,672
#34,672
West Vol said:
And what exactly do you think I’m saying there?

There’s only one variable and it’s the governors?

Inconsistency of governor response is why we have an error in a projection from April?

Is that me patting myself on the back?

I’ve evidently said all that stuff. Show me where.
Click to expand...

That was you first go to move in defending poor modeling. Your move. But you can't defend that. Type out more questions if you'd like.
 
#34,673
#34,673
volfan_89 said:
Sure it might be slower. One of the nurse managers where I work is from Canada and has firsthand experience working in their healthcare system. Things are slower but you do get what you need and it’s paid for through taxes. It may not be the answer but it’s a better system than what we have so far.
Click to expand...
Also debatable. If I have a serious illness there is nowhere else I’d rather be.
 
#34,674
#34,674
allvol123 said:
That was you first go to move in defending poor modeling. Your move. But you can't defend that. Type out more questions if you'd like.
Click to expand...
So you don’t think that is a factor? You don’t think dividing a nation into fiftieths and having each one behave a little different makes things more complex and therefore necessarily more difficult to predict?

I’m interested in progressing the discussion. You seem to want focus on inventing things I’ve said so you can “win”.

Regardless, what are you getting at by bringing up the errors made in April? Are you suggesting all decisions made by models were misguided?
 
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#34,675
#34,675
GordonC said:
This is a good question.
With private insurance, who decides who lives and who dies? Is it an insurance company representative deciding what treatments are covered? Have we surrendered that authority to that company just because they're paying the bills? If so, what does that say about us?
Hog is spot on, though, about the profit motive leading to breakthroughs.
Click to expand...

So we had no medical breakthroughs before the 1960s, when HCA started?
 
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