2020 Primaries

#5,426
#5,426
OHvol40 said:
I understand the origins perfectly well. In fact, I told you some about not only the finished product of the constitution, but some of the thinking behind the work.

I don’t understand why the concept of one man one vote is so strange, especially when we use it in America for every election but one. I do understand that some people don’t like the idea of giving up their special preferential treatment, though.
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And why do you think the FFs chose a different way to elect that one office? Even if you want to go with your incorrect assertion of southern states and slavery, why did they come up with the EC? To bring the states together. Why did they add the Bill of Rights? To bring the states together. Why did they write the Constitution in the first place? To bring the states together. Everything they did was to "form a more perfect union". Not a perfect union, because that doesn't exist, but a "more perfect union". It had to work for all of the states, otherwise, why would they accept and ratify it? Why do you think it takes two-thirds of the states to amend the Constitution? States have rights just as individuals have rights. The compromise to address both was the EC.
 
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#5,427
#5,427
OHvol40 said:
Slaves don’t exist anymore, that’s why the EC’s intended purpose is irrelevant. Why is the current “conversation” irrelevant? Because you don’t want to talk about it?
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Because you guys are talking in circles and accomplishing squat. It's simple, change the laws.
 
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#5,429
#5,429
OHvol40 said:
Why are their voices squashed? Not one citizen in any of those states deserves to count any more or less than any other.
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So the popular vote loser opinions still get carried out?

You are just wanting to squash after the ballot box.

It's a two way street, and part of why we have two houses in congress, with the states being equal (Senate) being the higher house.

I guess it boils down in do you believe in equality or equity(fairness)? Popular vote provides equality, but squashes equity in the nation. Electoral vote supports equity while squashing equality.
 
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#5,430
#5,430
OHvol40 said:
I can’t believe that is so hard for you to grasp a premise that every vote should count equally. I have young children that can understand why that’s fair.
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Is two wolves and one sheep voting for dinner fair?

There is no way to consider it fair if the majority can gain from being the majority. It's not about fairness, it's about popularity. Which the last time I left high school that was a terrible way to do things.
 
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#5,431
#5,431
OHvol40 said:
What basis to you keep evoking emotion? We literally run every election in the country by popular vote, that’s not emotion, it’s a fact. If nothing else the people who fight tooth and nail for the EC are motivated by emotion. They’re fearful that most Americans don’t agree with them and prefer to tip the scales in their favor.

Just keep repeating the same thing and side-stepping the issue. I’m sure you’ll convince someone you’re right.
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The Senate, the highest elected body doesnt operate off of a popular system. It works on an enforced equality between states. Which is what this nation is, a collection of states, as in the United States of America. Not the Peoples republic of America.
 
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#5,436
#5,436
OHvol40 said:
No matter who wins, I could more easily accept a result that means more Americans voted a different way than I did.
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More did vote for someone else than Hilary. She won the popular if you look individually. But if you look at the US as a whole, she didnt get the majority of votes.

And that's not even taking into account about a third of possible voters not even voting. What's it say when more people dont cast a ballot than those that voted for any individual?
 
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#5,437
#5,437
LouderVol said:
More did vote for someone else than Hilary. She won the popular if you look individually. But if you look at the US as a whole, she didnt get the majority of votes.

And that's not even taking into account about a third of possible voters not even voting. What's it say when more people dont cast a ballot than those that voted for any individual?
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Americans are getting dumber?
 
#5,439
#5,439
hog88 said:
Well liberals have been running our public education system for the last several decades. What would you expect?
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And conservatives have done everything possible to hinder public education. Can’t have people able to critically think.
 
#5,442
#5,442
OHvol40 said:
And conservatives have done everything possible to hinder public education. Can’t have people able to critically think.
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How? No kid left behind? Common core? Lol. When I hear a liberal use “critical thinking” it affirms that they don’t know s***. Then you look at the nutjobs teaching at universities and it explains a little more.
 
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#5,443
#5,443
Weezer said:
Tell you what, let's switch to popular vote on the condition that any state opposing the move is allowed to leave the union. Then those states can form their own country. Sounds "fair", since fairness is what this is all about, right?
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Red States vs blue states
 
#5,445
#5,445
Weezer said:
Tell you what, let's switch to popular vote on the condition that any state opposing the move is allowed to leave the union. Then those states can form their own country. Sounds "fair", since fairness is what this is all about, right?
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I don't think he's understood this, though it's been repeated several times. He wants to argue from his narrow idea of "fairness" when it's just as legitimate to argue that :fairness: is the ability to tend your own self interest. You do away with the EC and many/most states' self interest is to secede and form unions that serve them better. If it's true that population density is a major issue, you'll have more sparsely populated areas banding together--;ikely including NorCal breaking away from SoCal, that's been driving their state all along.

You'll end up with densely populated patches, importing food from [a] separate farm nation.
 
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#5,446
#5,446
OHvol40 said:
Right. It was all debated extensively between 13 colonies. Georgia, Maryland, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia all had a vested interest in preserving both their slave labor economy and their influence within the union. Those are the states whose representatives were sent to ensure the preservation of those two things. That’s is where the EC and 3/5th compromise all stems from.
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Slaves weren't counted until the 3/5 so your EC argument doesnt make sense.
 
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