Why I Can't Afford to Vote Democrat

#77
#77
0nelilreb said:
...And that ladies and gentlemen is how we started creating victims of the system .
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Do those people not exist in your world? Should any system simply ignore the 5000 homeless school children in my county?

Admitting the "up from your bootstraps" mentality completely ignores huge parts of an underserved population isn't victimhood. It's just willing to be honest that not all start from the same place. When a child is hungry and sleeps in a car or day motel they won't perform as well as others. Why hold them to the same initial standard as those others?
 
#78
#78
utvolpj said:
sorry but many seem to be discussing the wrong demographic. How about the ones having to work full time in hs to pay rent on some crappy place? Those hs are also likely to be low rated and not much beyond govt mandated child care. Their path to even being comfortable is much more difficult than yours or mine. We do that segment a great disservice by assuming everyone should, or even can, rise to the expectations being placed on them
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Working full time in high school to pay rent is not the norm in the U.S.

Yes, I understand (and am very thankful) that I had a relatively-privileged upbringing in Farragut. However, when my dad lost his job while I was in middle school, he didn't fold up the tent and take minimum wage or nurse the government teat. He spent several years working tough construction jobs, training and selling insurance on the side, etc while my mom worked as a secretary at the school basically just to keep insurance coverage for the family.

Point is: there is practically NO reason that a motivated, able-minded/bodied person should be stuck at minimum wage for long. Close to home: look at all the manufacturing jobs in Loudon, Blount, etc counties (Denso, JTEKT, Viskase, T&L, Sea Ray/Malibu/MC/Yamaha, Kim Clark, ...) that pay well above min wage. Manual labor pays better too, but you have to bust your ass.
 
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#79
#79
RockyTop85 said:
What happens when all the toilet scrubbers and burger flippers learn skills?
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They get more pay? Other unskilled people enter the workforce and scrub toilets and flip burgers until they get more skills? The people with skills eventually reap enough rewards that they decide to leave the work force?
 
#80
#80
kiddiedoc said:
Working full time in high school to pay rent is not the norm in the U.S.

Yes, I understand (and am very thankful) that I had a relatively-privileged upbringing in Farragut. However, when my dad lost his job while I was in middle school, he didn't fold up the tent and take minimum wage or nurse the government teat. He spent several years working tough construction jobs, training and selling insurance on the side, etc while my mom worked as a secretary at the school basically just to keep insurance coverage for the family.

Point is: there is practically NO reason that a motivated, able-minded/bodied person should be stuck at minimum wage for long. Close to home: look at all the manufacturing jobs in Loudon, Blount, etc counties (Denso, JTEKT, Viskase, T&L, Sea Ray/Malibu/MC/Yamaha, Kim Clark, ...) that pay well above min wage. Manual labor pays better too, but you have to bust your ass.
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It's much more common than you'd be comfortable with. I know it was for me when confronted with local numbers (especially as a parent). I will also say that finding a job when in your 30s and understand the system is much different than just starting out in a system you're unfamiliar with. The simple idea of saving money fir an emergency is so foreign or unobtainable to so many people that it's becoming the majority. We were taught while so many were not

I'm not saying there aren't some who take advantage but to ignore all just because of those is just not something I choose to do.
 
#81
#81
RockyTop85 said:
That callous and shortsighted mindset works great for everybody who didn’t “screw the pooch” until the number of people who did hits a critical mass and starts a socialist revolution.
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Wouldn’t that require some form of skills on these revolutionists part? And aren’t they revolting because they don’t have any skills to better themselves?

Yeah if they’re too lazy to better themselves I’m not gonna worry too much about them making effort to try and better themselves.
 
#82
#82
kiddiedoc said:
Working full time in high school to pay rent is not the norm in the U.S.

Yes, I understand (and am very thankful) that I had a relatively-privileged upbringing in Farragut. However, when my dad lost his job while I was in middle school, he didn't fold up the tent and take minimum wage or nurse the government teat. He spent several years working tough construction jobs, training and selling insurance on the side, etc while my mom worked as a secretary at the school basically just to keep insurance coverage for the family.

Point is: there is practically NO reason that a motivated, able-minded/bodied person should be stuck at minimum wage for long. Close to home: look at all the manufacturing jobs in Loudon, Blount, etc counties (Denso, JTEKT, Viskase, T&L, Sea Ray/Malibu/MC/Yamaha, Kim Clark, ...) that pay well above min wage. Manual labor pays better too, but you have to bust your ass.
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Very strong points. A good friend of mine started his own lawn care company 25 years ago & barely graduated HS. He maintains 60-70 commercial/private properties & employs 3 other people. He makes well over a 100k per year. It is amazing what people can do if they are just simply motivated.
 
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#83
#83
utvolpj said:
Do those people not exist in your world? Should any system simply ignore the 5000 homeless school children in my county?

Admitting the "up from your bootstraps" mentality completely ignores huge parts of an underserved population isn't victimhood. It's just willing to be honest that not all start from the same place. When a child is hungry and sleeps in a car or day motel they won't perform as well as others. Why hold them to the same initial standard as those others?
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And what county do you live in that there are 1000 homeless families?
Is it due to rampant drug usage, lack of affordable housing or a culture where homelessness is acceptable?
 
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#84
#84
utvolpj said:
It's much more common than you'd be comfortable with. I know it was for me when confronted with local numbers (especially as a parent). I will also say that finding a job when in your 30s and understand the system is much different than just starting out in a system you're unfamiliar with. The simple idea of saving money fir an emergency is so foreign or unobtainable to so many people that it's becoming the majority. We were taught while so many were not
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BS there is upward mobility for almost anyone to rise out of their situations with planning within a year, UNLESS:

- The person is a criminal/felon
- The person is addicted to drugs
- The person didn't even graduate HS or have GED
- The person habitually is late/doesn't show up for work

But those things are NOT the fault of anyone else but that person. There are contract companies I know of that would pay someone $18-30 an hour and train them AND pay to further their education to do vocational work but the owner tells me he can't find younger who is not on drugs, a felon, or refuses to even show up and work on time.
 
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#85
#85
Wireless1 said:
And what county do you live in that there are 1000 homeless families?
Is it due to rampant drug usage, lack of affordable housing or a culture where homelessness is acceptable?
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people who are chronically homeless either choose that lifestyle, are mentally ill, are drug addicted or some combination of such things.
 
#86
#86
Rickyvol77 said:
people who are chronically homeless either choose that lifestyle, are mentally ill, are drug addicted or some combination of such things.
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And they are allowed to have children who live with them?
 
#87
#87
utvolpj said:
Do those people not exist in your world? Should any system simply ignore the 5000 homeless school children in my county?

Admitting the "up from your bootstraps" mentality completely ignores huge parts of an underserved population isn't victimhood. It's just willing to be honest that not all start from the same place. When a child is hungry and sleeps in a car or day motel they won't perform as well as others. Why hold them to the same initial standard as those others?
Click to expand...

Those people have always existed in my world , I grew up as one . My poor ass family were all those people . We worked what and where we could , grew our own food and made it the best way we could until we could do better . We worked hard , tried our best not to except hand outs , shared everything we had , would wear hand me downs , saved , scrimped and scrounged until our hard work paid off and we all helped each other become better . I was taught to never give up , don’t quit , the world is tough so you have to be tough to make it in it . Don’t feel sorry for yourself and if you do learn from it and better your situation . Young people today are soft and expect to get more than most of them are willing to give . I’ve did jobs that most people would laugh at and refuse for pay that was ridiculously low . But I learned from every one of them to get better , and better my situation .
 
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#89
#89
Wireless1 said:
And what county do you live in that there are 1000 homeless families?
Is it due to rampant drug usage, lack of affordable housing or a culture where homelessness is acceptable?
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Drug usage is always a factor but I would add that lack of affordable housing and access to mental health services is a huge part also. Getting caught in the system for dumb crimes as a juvenile is a factor as well but thankfully that has actually been changing in Florida.
 
#90
#90
RockyTop85 said:
🤷🏻‍♂️ I’m not talking about specific individuals. I’m saying there will always be people working low paying, unskilled jobs and as that number increases (as it tends to do after more than a decade of economic growth involving mostly low paying jobs) the persuasiveness of “well that’s their fault” diminishes and you start seeing these trends towards destructive socialist policies.
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I’ve got good news for you. As all of us boomers leave the work force I’d guess there will be more opportunities than applicants.
 
#92
#92
Rickyvol77 said:
BS there is upward mobility for almost anyone to rise out of their situations with planning within a year, UNLESS:

- The person is a criminal/felon
- The person is addicted to drugs
- The person didn't even graduate HS or have GED
- The person habitually is late/doesn't show up for work

But those things are NOT the fault of anyone else but that person. There are contract companies I know of that would pay someone $18-30 an hour and train them AND pay to further their education to do vocational work but the owner tells me he can't find younger who is not on drugs, a felon, or refuses to even show up and work on time.
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In this current world "on drugs" actually can mean "smoked pot in the last week" which is asinine. Finding a decent, affordable place to live and transportation to that job is an often ignored factor. People want their resort town but don't want the cleaning crew living anywhere close by
 
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#95
#95
Wireless1 said:
And they are allowed to have children who live with them?
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There are places that truly help families who are temporarily homeless with children.

If it's the other three things, then no DCS should take the children and remove them from those parents ASAP
 
#96
#96
utvolpj said:
In this current world "on drugs" actually can mean "smoked pot in the last week" which is asinine. Finding a decent, affordable place to live and transportation to that job is an often ignored factor. People want their resort town but don't want the cleaning crew living anywhere close by
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Although there are a few potheads that smoke pot alone and live with their parents into their 40s, i am referring to true drug addicts, IV drug users (who still also smoke pot by the way).

Drug addicts generally make terrible employees and thus aren't hired, especially since most steal as well. Most reasonable jobs require drug testing, and for good reasons.

But again it is the person's stupid choice to use drugs.
 
#97
#97
Rickyvol77 said:
BS there is upward mobility for almost anyone to rise out of their situations with planning within a year, UNLESS:

- The person is a criminal/felon- Have hired several before and all but one worked out fine due diligence is key here. A top 5 best employee I ever hired was somebody that did stupid and I gave him a chance.
- The person is addicted to drugs- Agree Can't help you if you don't want to help yourself. Had to Fire 2 employees in $100k+ jobs cause their propensity to indulge in Coke impacted their ability to do their job.
- The person didn't even graduate HS or have GED -ALOT of reasons this isn't true
- The person habitually is late/doesn't show up for work- Generally true but if again relying on public transportation that sucks, then what?

But those things are NOT the fault of anyone else but that person. There are contract companies I know of that would pay someone $18-30 an hour and train them AND pay to further their education to do vocational work but the owner tells me he can't find younger who is not on drugs, a felon, or refuses to even show up and work on time.
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See above and Please be careful making blanket statements... My best friend who was raised in NYC and NJ quit school in the 10th grade because his mom was working two jobs in healthcare industry with 4 boys to raise after their father walked out on them. He worked in a can plant in NJ to help his mom keep a roof over their heads and raise those kids. He got tired of the taxes after several years after his brothers graduated from HS and he relocated to Florida and finally NC. Started his own business when he got here and went to night school to get his GED not for himself but so his two kids weren't embarrassed of him. He built the 70 Chevelle in my Avi in that business he started...
So I have worked for a couple big companies and started several of my own in everything from Telecom Engineering to Food service, sign shop, construction services, etc... I have hired people that didn't have a GED that were smarter doing the jobs that the were hired for ($50K+ jobs )than some of folks with Masters in Mech Eng or Computer/ Software Eng.
 
#98
#98
bag12day said:
See above and Please be careful making blanket statements... My best friend who was raised in NYC and NJ quit school in the 10th grade because his mom was working two jobs in healthcare industry with 4 boys to raise after their father walked out on them. He worked in a can plant in NJ to help his mom keep a roof over their heads and raise those kids. He got tired of the taxes after several years after his brothers graduated from HS and he relocated to Florida and finally NC. Started his own business when he got here and went to night school to get his GED not for himself but so his two kids weren't embarrassed of him. He built the 70 Chevelle in my Avi in that business he started...
So I have worked for a couple big companies and started several of my own in everything from Telecom Engineering to Food service, sign shop, construction services, etc... I have hired people that didn't have a GED that were smarter doing the jobs that the were hired for ($50K+ jobs )than some of folks with Masters in Mech Eng or Computer/ Software Eng.
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and your friend CHOSE to do it the right way and not expect handouts for sitting on his butt either....THAT is what America is about and your friend SHOULD be proud for his hard work.

If he had decided to have 3 kids with 3 different mothers, do drugs, steal, or whatever else, it would NOT have been anyone's fault but his own....it ALWAYS boils down to life choices....Some want everyone else to pay for other people's bad life choices and/or horrible work ethic
 
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#99
#99
Rickyvol77 said:
and your friend CHOSE to do it the right way and not expect handouts for sitting on his butt either....THAT is what America is about and your friend SHOULD be proud for his hard work.

If he had decided to have 3 kids with 3 different mothers, do drugs, steal, or whatever else, it would NOT have been anyone's fault but his own....it ALWAYS boils down to life choices....Some want everyone else to pay for other people's bad life choices and/or horrible work ethic
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I guess in a microcosm what I was trying to say is the fact he didn’t graduate high school wasnt “his fault” to use your words, but rather a necessity of circumstance he made for his family. There are a lot of reasons I’m sure people dont continue eduction that may or may not be their fault. He is a lot harder worker than I have ever been and Im not ashamed to admit it.
 
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