Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[drvenner]

Thinking about this tua injury.

And this is petty and small... But we may have ruined bama's season.

Am I wrong that that makes me happy on some level?

As long as he is not hurt long-term and can make his millions, it would not upset me if he decided to rest the remainder of the season. He is still the number one overall.

 

[chargervol]

wait until Jimbo doesn't winbo......that's another fan base that'll start figuring out what "value" means....lol.

Yeah, just like with Harbough, it's not saying he's crap.
But with things like the undated trophy, I think their expectations for the amount they spent, might not end up aligning with reality.

 

[jakez4ut]

In this playoff era, you’re not afforded the time to become a Clemson...the time that Dabo was afforded. “I want this to be that NOW” rules supreme. Harbaugh will be able to coach his long as he wishes. Michigan’s seen the alternative. My entire contribution on this subject is to spotlight the message board coaching search fallacy of “hire a proven winner” doesn’t translate to instant playoff success.

this. there are no guarantees...no formula...no aoutmatic "if you do ABC, XYZ is sure to happen"....

 

[drvenner]

It is perplexing how Harbaugh hasn't had success. Did not see that coming. Especially with all the good recruits.

He has not found a good QB, yet. That is their biggest problem, IMO.

 

[JohnnyD1024]

Sorry if this has already been discussed but does anyone else think that Shrout gets the start on Saturday, but with a short leash and the first sign of it not going well for him he gets pulled for Gurantano?

 

[MoCo_Vol]

"It must be Thursday hanging with". Sorry, I guess?

Yeah, some always find the downside to TN and defend other programs. I'm not gonna omit that, if that's what you mean? Nick pointed out that Michigan hasn't gotten what they expected for that kind of money (which is fact) and the 1st response was to make it a shot at TN. But yes, it is always the same posters and no, I doubt that's coincidence.

Surely you at least post things equally offensive as "hanging with" but don't consider it bashing.. and bashing is not my intent. Doesn't feel like a fair description tbh.

True point, not sure why @Kingston Vol turned that into a "Pruitt is bad" discussion. Since as you pointed out Nick was just discussing Michigan.

 

[drvenner]

I’m not sure Michigan fans should care how much money they spend for Harbaugh considering it doesn’t come out of their pockets, but if we want to talk about efficient spending:

Harbaugh makes $7.5M per year and his record is 43-16. They’ve paid, roughly, $872k per win.

Jeremy Pruitt makes $3.8M per year and his record is 7-12. We’ve paid $1.08M per win.

So if we’re talking about spending efficiently - and who is getting a “bad” deal - we might want to fix our own issues before throwing stones.

And I’m going to preemptively knock down some of the talk about “it’s not fair to judge Pruitt yet” and “he had a much deeper hole to dig out of” because I do think there’s some validity to that line of thinking, but:
4 years at Michigan before Harbaugh took over: 31-20

4 years at Tennessee before Pruitt took over: 29-21

Ironically, both schools can put some blame on BRADY HOKE.

Let's see where we are half way through Pruitt's fifth year (if he makes it that far, and I think he will).

 

[drvenner]

Refalytics Judd has done this for Tennessee b-ball for over 10 years. His conclusions are fascinating.

Off the top of my head I remember between Cuonzo, Pearl, and Barnes it was Cuonzo who received the most favorable whistle despite many thinking Barnes receives a “Regal” whistle. The Regal whistle is usually reserved for the blue blood schools. Barnes gets a pretty good whistle because he’s well respected.

African American refs typically call a more balanced game versus Caucasians who tend to lean one way or the other.

And if you’re playing on the road in the SEC and you have “TV” Teddy Valentine that’s actually a good thing because TV Teddy usually calls a favorable game for the road team.

I wish we had this kind of info on SEC football refs.

Thanks for this. I am going to look it up.

 

[jakez4ut]

Yeah, just like with Harbough, it's not saying he's crap.
But with things like the undated trophy, I think their expectations for the amount they spent, might not end up aligning with reality.

yep. it rarely does as a matter of fact. the money they paid, aTm and Michigan, bought stability, for good or bad. that's it.........both are capable of winning big. both might.

it just isn't a foregone conclusion cause you wrote the biggest check.

fans.........wont' care. "we pay, we expect.........." after some undetermined amount of time, err'body be like........

 

[Vols4us]

This season is hanging in the balance on W/L progress because CJP needed more time to develop as a HC on game days along with the fact he did not sign two freshmen QB's each of his first two recruiting classes. Add in that this staff, along with Botch and crew previously, believed that what they saw in practice would be the same as they would see in games despite having sufficient game film from the past to know better. For the most part you only need a couple of games to know the current performance level as well as upside.

Example - once Dobbs was the only option left to try he was thrown in there. The rest is history and he is in the NFL. Did Dobbs practice well? Apparently not or they would have tried using him sooner. Same with Maurer. Yet, all of us knew with Maurer immediately, as did the team, when he came into the games. He just needs more meat on his bones and game experience. We want to know with Shrout, but he's never had the opportunity. JG is not it, so the smart thing to do at this stage in the rebuild is to play Shrout to know.

Grad transfers are bandaids. The portal has made it likely that many back-ups will transfer. As a result, you need to take two QB's each year unless the stable is full. When Bailey steps on campus there will be two QB's with starting experience if Hill stays. Three scholarship QB's, if Hill earns one, are not enough IMO.

This season has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that QB play is critical to winning. The most important position on the field. This team has now proven it is an 8+ win team with an even average SEC QB. The roster is looking better and better. CJP/staff are tightening down on the state's best. Managing the slots so that the most important position is stocked fully with quality is critical in this climb back to the elite.

 

[jakez4ut]

True point, not sure why @Kingston Vol turned that into a "Pruitt is bad" discussion. Since as you pointed out Nick was just discussing Michigan.

lol.....i think we know why........

 

[drvenner]

Agree on everything but QB. He’s got Patterson, who displaced another highly ranked QB. Their problem is whatever they’ve been putting together on offense that takes pretty good QBs and turns them into slaw.

Dang it, I have got to see if you have responded to a post before I do. Between you and @Rishvol, I think I get Swanson'd daily. And, I still can't keep you all straight. Thanks, it's 10:25 in the blessed AM, and I feel like I need about nine beers.

 

[drvenner]

Like I said, they should be frustrated, especially this year. But their administration has to be smart enough to know there are very few head coaches better than Jim Harbaugh and the likelihood of one of those guys taking the Michigan job is very small.

Harbaugh has problems he needs to correct. But he’s proven he’s an elite head coach (good Kaepernick to the Super Bowl for gods sake) and at minimum his floor is an 8 win “downturn” season. If the goal is a national championship, he’s much closer to that than Luke Fickell or Bronco Mendenhall or whoever else they would hire to replace him.

Also, OSU is whipping their tail with regularity. If nothing else, Harbaugh was hired to beat Ohio State.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Sorry if this has already been discussed but does anyone else think that Shrout gets the start on Saturday, but with a short leash and the first sign of it not going well for him he gets pulled for Gurantano?

No clue, not heard anyone in our local media talk about if JT was getting first team reps. I think the opposite happens, Guarantano starts with the short leash and they insert Shrout if things look stale.

This might offend some, not my intention...but you're a RS Junior you've had more experience with current staff & offense than anyone else in the room....time to nut up or shut up. You came to the SEC to play big time football, fans on your back about not playing well, so what? Go shut them up. Go close the door on the debate, you get that chance. You come out and sling the ball around the yard and throw for 250+ and a few TDs without turning the ball over and then you show up next weekend and do even better against UAB.

And you know what happens, Guarantano? YOU QUIET THE HATERS!

GBFO!!!

 

[RiotVol]

Dang it, I have got to see if you have responded to a post before I do. Between you and @Rishvol, I think I get Swanson'd daily. And, I still can't keep you all straight. Thanks, it's 10:25 in the blessed AM, and I feel like I need about nine beers.

Just wait until I got back to my Riot swoosh logo...

 

[Kingston Vol]

Let's see where we are half way through Pruitt's fifth year (if he makes it that far, and I think he will).

That’s fine - but the record to get there isn’t going to look nearly as good.

Harbaugh got to 10 wins in his first year there. It’ll take Pruitt two years to total 10 wins.

And I know the expectations are different - Pruitt was not expected to be Harbaugh.
I don’t know. This really isn’t about Pruitt but the idea that Michigan fans should be disappointed while we should be content with what we have just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[Tstormtrooper]

To me Gurantano is a G5 talent who was overhyped and overrated coming out of high school. Who is now struggling to perform in arguably the best power 5 conference in the country.

To me he just never took the next step for whatever reasons. That's why it's important the kids get their education. The worst part for JG is his going back in the game and keeps reminding the fans of that fact. It's not his fault if Pruitt makes him go back in. Sometimes the kid just has to accept he's not that guy and never going to be that guy. JG is a good kid and I am sure will do well. We have had several QB's that were like him and some of them very well thought of until this day because they handled it well and moved on with their lives.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Honestly the dumbest thing Michigan could do is to fire Jim Harbaugh.

The last good coach there was Lloyd Carr he went 122-40 (81-23) (75.3%) with his best season being the 12-0 year he won the national title, he also won 5 conference titles there. Won 10 or more games in 6 seasons.
Jim Harbaugh is 43-16 (29-11) (72.9%) in year 6, his best seasons 10-3 and he hasn't won any titles yet. Has won 10 or more games in 3 seasons, so far.

The 7 seasons before Jim you had Brady Hoke (31-20) & Rich Rodriguez (15-22). They are overpaying, but I'm not sure exactly how they can get a better coach. There's only a few that are clearly better, and I doubt any of them want to leave where they are to go to Michigan. Day still has Urban's players and culture helping him in year 1 so who knows if Ohio State will just continue to dominate that conference or not.

Crazy as it sounds I think Jim is just waiting on his Andrew Luck, once he gets that elite QB he'll turn the corner I think.

There is no way they could, or should fire Harbaugh, which is the point of my post. They are pretty much stuck at “good”

 

[Kingston Vol]

True point, not sure why @Kingston Vol turned that into a "Pruitt is bad" discussion. Since as you pointed out Nick was just discussing Michigan.

Here’s the last paragraph of Nick’s post:

“Winning sure beats losing, but I would almost prefer the unknown hope we’ve been living on over the “this is it” which is good enough to not risk changing.”

I didn’t start the discussion, just replied to his premise. My point is I would take the sure 8-10 wins over the “unknown hope” as Nick stated. It sounds an awful lot like the pitch against Mullen during the coaching search.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Shea Patterson isn't Andrew Luck and hasn't shown to be elite. Sure he was a 5 star coming outta HS but hasn't lived up to it in college yet, his best season was 2600 yards and 22 TDs. For whatever reason he's regressed this year too only twice so far in 7 games has he went over 65% and 250 passing yards, has actually had 3 games with 0 TD passes too. Not sure what's going on with him this season but he isn't close to being elite.

Regressed under Harbaugh, and with all that talent around him.

 

[jakez4ut]

That’s fine - but the record to get there isn’t going to look nearly as good.

Harbaugh got to 10 wins in his first year there. It’ll take Pruitt two years to total 10 wins.

And I know the expectations are different - Pruitt was not expected to be Harbaugh.
I don’t know. This really isn’t about Pruitt but the idea that Michigan fans should be disappointed while we should be content with what we have just rubbed me the wrong way.

i think we've explained why they are/should be. either you can see that or not. and if not, you're just ignoring a very possible, if not very likely, reason why. for both coaches.

i mean sure, if you blatantly ignore any/all of the context of situations, how the hires came about etc.....basically everything surrounding the two hires, why they're different etc...........

then yeah, we should be absolutely pissed and they should shut up and be happy.
i mean, if you ignore everything else but the math........lol.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Here’s the last paragraph of Nick’s post:

“Winning sure beats losing, but I would almost prefer the unknown hope we’ve been living on over the “this is it” which is good enough to not risk changing.”

I didn’t start the discussion, just replied to his premise. My point is I would take the sure 8-10 wins over the “unknown hope” as Nick stated. It sounds an awful lot like the pitch against Mullen during the coaching search.

I agree that is exactly the same thought process. And what a fan sees as the objective determines which side of the line you fall on here.

Let’s get real though... Butch was winning 8-9 games and all we could see was missed opportunities

 

[gunner]

To me Gurantano is a G5 talent who was overhyped and overrated coming out of high school. Who is now struggling to perform in arguably the best power 5 conference in the country.

JG has talent and skills, but he’s a complete head case. This is not war, it’s just football but he is actions on the field are reminiscent of a warrior that suffers from PTSD. Imho, JG needs to talk to a mental health professional that specializes in sports and the stress involved therein to help cope.

 

[BearCat204]

To me Gurantano is a G5 talent who was overhyped and overrated coming out of high school. Who is now struggling to perform in arguably the best power 5 conference in the country.

IMO 90% of JGs problems are with his head. Its been greatly talked about from people who have seen it first hand that he absolutely can't handle any criticism or critic. Not talking about Bobby from Townsend who tweets obscene bashing at him, but I'm talking about critic from coaches and others. I think he has talent, I really do, but he is fragile mentally and still hasnt recovered from failures earlier in the year and it is literally handcuffing him. With that said, you still dont do what he did Saturday night at the GL, ever.

 

[BearCat204]

JG has talent and skills, but he’s a complete head case. This is not war, it’s just football but he is actions on the field are reminiscent of a warrior that suffers from PTSD. Imho, JG needs to talk to a mental health professional that specializes in sports and the stress involved therein to help cope.