Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#37,881
#37,881
Let’s talk Michigan aside from our own level of despair right now...

How much does it stink to be a Michigan fan right now? You spent a fortune to hire who appeared to be a top NFL/College coach who is alumni, and 5 years in, there is no valid hope that they will ever break into the top tier of college football. They are mired in the later Georgia Richt years of good seasons but never threatening to win more. At least UGA had Smart on deck but if you are Michigan, who are you going to get that doesn’t look like a clear step backwards on paper? How much money?

They went all in, got their proven guy, and they are stuck as a perineal 3-4 best team in their conference with not even a sniff of a conference championship to be found.

Winning sure beats losing, but I would almost prefer the unknown hope we’ve been living on over the “this is it” which is good enough to not risk changing.
 
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#37,882
#37,882
rekinhavoc said:


I have no words.
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Lololol. He tapped to him just having his arm across throat lololol. Credit to stepping in there but I’ve seen brand new white belts in BJJ have more natural instinct. Pop that elbow across his body and hit a head and arm son. I needed a good funny video like that this morning.
 
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#37,883
#37,883
nicksjuzunk said:
Let’s talk Michigan aside from our own level of despair right now...

How much does it stink to be a Michigan fan right now? You spent a fortune to hire who appeared to be a top NFL/College coach who is alumni, and 5 years in, there is no valid hope that they will ever break into the top tier of college football. They are mired in the later Georgia Richt years of good seasons but never threatening to win more. At least UGA had Smart on deck but if you are Michigan, who are you going to get that doesn’t look like a clear step backwards on paper? How much money?

They went all in, got their proven guy, and they are stuck as a perineal 3-4 best team in their conference with not even a sniff of a conference championship to be found.

Winning sure beats losing, but I would almost prefer the unknown hope we’ve been living on over the “this is it” which is good enough to not risk changing.
Click to expand...
Like you said, winning is better than losing so we’re beat in that department.

I’d rather be irritated with 10 wins than excited about possibly getting to 5-7.
 
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#37,884
#37,884
Kingston Vol said:
Like you said, winning is better than losing so we’re beat in that department.

I’d rather be irritated with 10 wins than excited about possibly getting to 5-7.
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That took some work to avoid the point, I'll give you that.

They did make the splash hire, they spent all the monies, they're enough years in to know what they have and in a rough spot to try to move on.
 
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#37,886
#37,886
As usual, ESPN has made my list. Without fail on the CFB homepage throughout this season there has usually been a headline about the Vols in some form or fashion, at least once a week. Now of course, it has primarily referenced a negative event, Thompson, Banks etc. So of course, there is no mention of us landing a trio of highly rated Memphis prospects within hours of each other, why would there be. Standard operating procedure at this point, but nonetheless it irritates me. /rant.
 
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#37,888
#37,888
chargervol said:
That took some work to avoid the point, I'll give you that.

They did make the splash hire, they spent all the monies, they're enough years in to know what they have and in a rough spot to try to move on.
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No, I didn’t avoid the point because I don’t think they’re going to fire Harbaugh. I’m not saying they should be content but it’s not like he’s struggling to make a bowl game or anything. They’re much more likely to get where they want to go by letting him figure out the last ~3% they’re missing instead of making an entirely new hire.

They’re frustrated - and I get that - but it sounds an awful lot like Tennessee with Fulmer. Be careful what you wish for.

(Also: even if Harbaugh left on his own, the fact that they’ve shown they are willing to spend big will help them with their next hire.)
 
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#37,889
#37,889
nicksjuzunk said:
Let’s talk Michigan aside from our own level of despair right now...

How much does it stink to be a Michigan fan right now? You spent a fortune to hire who appeared to be a top NFL/College coach who is alumni, and 5 years in, there is no valid hope that they will ever break into the top tier of college football. They are mired in the later Georgia Richt years of good seasons but never threatening to win more. At least UGA had Smart on deck but if you are Michigan, who are you going to get that doesn’t look like a clear step backwards on paper? How much money?

They went all in, got their proven guy, and they are stuck as a perineal 3-4 best team in their conference with not even a sniff of a conference championship to be found.

Winning sure beats losing, but I would almost prefer the unknown hope we’ve been living on over the “this is it” which is good enough to not risk changing.
Click to expand...
The equivalent is that they emptied the bank and hired their Saban. But their Saban can't win the division.
Idc what anyone says, that has to hurt.
 
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#37,890
#37,890
nicksjuzunk said:
Let’s talk Michigan aside from our own level of despair right now...

How much does it stink to be a Michigan fan right now? You spent a fortune to hire who appeared to be a top NFL/College coach who is alumni, and 5 years in, there is no valid hope that they will ever break into the top tier of college football. They are mired in the later Georgia Richt years of good seasons but never threatening to win more. At least UGA had Smart on deck but if you are Michigan, who are you going to get that doesn’t look like a clear step backwards on paper? How much money?

They went all in, got their proven guy, and they are stuck as a perineal 3-4 best team in their conference with not even a sniff of a conference championship to be found.

Winning sure beats losing, but I would almost prefer the unknown hope we’ve been living on over the “this is it” which is good enough to not risk changing.
Click to expand...
It is perplexing how Harbaugh hasn't had success. Did not see that coming. Especially with all the good recruits.
 
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#37,891
#37,891
Kingston Vol said:
No, I didn’t avoid the point because I don’t think they’re going to fire Harbaugh. I’m not saying they should be content but it’s not like he’s struggling to make a bowl game or anything. They’re much more likely to get where they want to go by letting him figure out the last ~3% they’re missing instead of making an entirely new hire.

They’re frustrated - and I get that - but it sounds an awful lot like Tennessee with Fulmer. Be careful what you wish for.

(Also: even if Harbaugh left on his own, the fact that they’ve shown they are willing to spend big will help them with their next hire.)
Click to expand...
Ya, Michigan is in a win/win. Keep him and keep the program at a 9 win level with potential to get over the hump any day, fire him and every good coach in the country will be begging to coach there.
 
#37,892
#37,892
WriterVol said:
We have websites that list, collate, and analyze every piece of sports data available. How has no one created one for referees? A ref's body of work is explicitly available for public consumption.

You'd need to analyze them in an obviously transparent way. Maybe have a small committee of people that aren't fans of the teams their watching. You could even start it up just doing major games or games that get a lot of complaints to get the ball rolling. If successful, you could grow it from there.
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Pane di mais said:
KY bb fans keep a database of every ref every game. But they are exactly the ones who do NOT need it. The rigged officiating in Rupp is the bb equivalent to bammer football.

Edit: Every KY game.
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Refalytics Judd has done this for Tennessee b-ball for over 10 years. His conclusions are fascinating.

Off the top of my head I remember between Cuonzo, Pearl, and Barnes it was Cuonzo who received the most favorable whistle despite many thinking Barnes receives a “Regal” whistle. The Regal whistle is usually reserved for the blue blood schools. Barnes gets a pretty good whistle because he’s well respected.

African American refs typically call a more balanced game versus Caucasians who tend to lean one way or the other.

And if you’re playing on the road in the SEC and you have “TV” Teddy Valentine that’s actually a good thing because TV Teddy usually calls a favorable game for the road team.

I wish we had this kind of info on SEC football refs.
 
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#37,893
#37,893
Kingston Vol said:
No, I didn’t avoid the point because I don’t think they’re going to fire Harbaugh. I’m not saying they should be content but it’s not like he’s struggling to make a bowl game or anything. They’re much more likely to get where they want to go by letting him figure out the last ~3% they’re missing instead of making an entirely new hire.

They’re frustrated - and I get that - but it sounds an awful lot like Tennessee with Fulmer. Be careful what you wish for.

(Also: even if Harbaugh left on his own, the fact that they’ve shown they are willing to spend big will help them with their next hire.)
Click to expand...
I gave my comparison, you gave yours.
We should call them and ask if they had Phillip or Nick in mind when they set a spending record for a new coach.

My memory may not be what it used to but...
 
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#37,894
#37,894
Jack Burton said:
Refalytics Judd has done this for Tennessee b-ball for over 10 years. His conclusions are fascinating.

Off the top of my head I remember between Cuonzo, Pearl, and Barnes it was Cuonzo who received the most favorable whistle despite many thinking Barnes receives a “Regal” whistle. The Regal whistle is usually reserved for the blue blood schools. Barnes gets a pretty good whistle because he’s well respected.

African American refs typically call a more balanced game versus Caucasians who tend to lean one way or the other.

And if you’re playing on the road in the SEC and you have “TV” Teddy Valentine that’s actually a good thing because TV Teddy usually calls a favorable game for the road team.

I wish we had this kind of info on SEC football refs.
Click to expand...
Fascinating stuff. SEC football refs are by far the worst in the country. And that's excluding the Bama bias we discuss on here, I just mean in general, even in the Vandy vs UK type games, they are wildly inconsistent and make so many mistakes.
 
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#37,896
#37,896
I’m not sure Michigan fans should care how much money they spend for Harbaugh considering it doesn’t come out of their pockets, but if we want to talk about efficient spending:

Harbaugh makes $7.5M per year and his record is 43-16. They’ve paid, roughly, $872k per win.

Jeremy Pruitt makes $3.8M per year and his record is 7-12. We’ve paid $1.08M per win.

So if we’re talking about spending efficiently - and who is getting a “bad” deal - we might want to fix our own issues before throwing stones.

And I’m going to preemptively knock down some of the talk about “it’s not fair to judge Pruitt yet” and “he had a much deeper hole to dig out of” because I do think there’s some validity to that line of thinking, but:
4 years at Michigan before Harbaugh took over: 31-20

4 years at Tennessee before Pruitt took over: 29-21

Ironically, both schools can put some blame on BRADY HOKE.
 
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#37,898
#37,898
SweetasSoda said:
Prayers please. In the hospital with chest pain and a stress test in the morning. Phone is dying so won't be able to respond. Wouldn't matter anyway since they just gave me Lyrica, Benadryl and Zrytec.TIA!
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Sending prayers and well wishes your way! I am stuck in meetings much of the day but will be checking back frequently for an update!
 
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#37,900
#37,900
nicksjuzunk said:
Let’s talk Michigan aside from our own level of despair right now...

How much does it stink to be a Michigan fan right now? You spent a fortune to hire who appeared to be a top NFL/College coach who is alumni, and 5 years in, there is no valid hope that they will ever break into the top tier of college football. They are mired in the later Georgia Richt years of good seasons but never threatening to win more. At least UGA had Smart on deck but if you are Michigan, who are you going to get that doesn’t look like a clear step backwards on paper? How much money?

They went all in, got their proven guy, and they are stuck as a perineal 3-4 best team in their conference with not even a sniff of a conference championship to be found.

Winning sure beats losing, but I would almost prefer the unknown hope we’ve been living on over the “this is it” which is good enough to not risk changing.
Click to expand...

Honestly the dumbest thing Michigan could do is to fire Jim Harbaugh.

The last good coach there was Lloyd Carr he went 122-40 (81-23) (75.3%) with his best season being the 12-0 year he won the national title, he also won 5 conference titles there. Won 10 or more games in 6 seasons.
Jim Harbaugh is 43-16 (29-11) (72.9%) in year 6, his best seasons 10-3 and he hasn't won any titles yet. Has won 10 or more games in 3 seasons, so far.

The 7 seasons before Jim you had Brady Hoke (31-20) & Rich Rodriguez (15-22). They are overpaying, but I'm not sure exactly how they can get a better coach. There's only a few that are clearly better, and I doubt any of them want to leave where they are to go to Michigan. Day still has Urban's players and culture helping him in year 1 so who knows if Ohio State will just continue to dominate that conference or not.

Crazy as it sounds I think Jim is just waiting on his Andrew Luck, once he gets that elite QB he'll turn the corner I think.
 
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