Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#37,904
#37,904
MoCo_Vol said:
Honestly the dumbest thing Michigan could do is to fire Jim Harbaugh.

The last good coach there was Lloyd Carr he went 122-40 (81-23) (75.3%) with his best season being the 12-0 year he won the national title, he also won 5 conference titles there. Won 10 or more games in 6 seasons.
Jim Harbaugh is 43-16 (29-11) (72.9%) in year 6, his best seasons 10-3 and he hasn't won any titles yet. Has won 10 or more games in 3 seasons, so far.

The 7 seasons before Jim you had Brady Hoke (31-20) & Rich Rodriguez (15-22). They are overpaying, but I'm not sure exactly how they can get a better coach. There's only a few that are clearly better, and I doubt any of them want to leave where they are to go to Michigan. Day still has Urban's players and culture helping him in year 1 so who knows if Ohio State will just continue to dominate that conference or not.

Crazy as it sounds I think Jim is just waiting on his Andrew Luck, once he gets that elite QB he'll turn the corner I think.
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Agree on everything but QB. He’s got Patterson, who displaced another highly ranked QB. Their problem is whatever they’ve been putting together on offense that takes pretty good QBs and turns them into slaw.
 
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#37,905
#37,905
Kingston Vol said:
No, I didn’t avoid the point because I don’t think they’re going to fire Harbaugh. I’m not saying they should be content but it’s not like he’s struggling to make a bowl game or anything. They’re much more likely to get where they want to go by letting him figure out the last ~3% they’re missing instead of making an entirely new hire.

They’re frustrated - and I get that - but it sounds an awful lot like Tennessee with Fulmer. Be careful what you wish for.

(Also: even if Harbaugh left on his own, the fact that they’ve shown they are willing to spend big will help them with their next hire.)
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It has some similarities because he has been better than the previous guys which was expected.

His problem is he hasn't got over the hump yet in his own conference which is the low bar for what they paid him for and expected. OSU is the obstacle but their not the only team thats holding him back.

Now that Urbs is gone, their fans see no reason why that should continue to be an annual L. Im not sure I blame them.

If Harbaugh can't get them there. Im not sure who they convince even with the willingness to pay.
 
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#37,906
#37,906
BeecherVol said:
It has some similarities because he has been better than the previous guys which was expected.

His problem is he hasn't got over the hump yet in his own conference which is the low bar for what they paid him for and expected. OSU is the obstacle but their not the only team thats holding him back.

Now that Urbs is gone, their fans see no reason why that should continue to be an annual L. Im not sure I blame them.
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Like I said, they should be frustrated, especially this year. But their administration has to be smart enough to know there are very few head coaches better than Jim Harbaugh and the likelihood of one of those guys taking the Michigan job is very small.

Harbaugh has problems he needs to correct. But he’s proven he’s an elite head coach (good Kaepernick to the Super Bowl for gods sake) and at minimum his floor is an 8 win “downturn” season. If the goal is a national championship, he’s much closer to that than Luke Fickell or Bronco Mendenhall or whoever else they would hire to replace him.
 
#37,907
#37,907
BeecherVol said:
It has some similarities because he has been better than the previous guys which was expected.

His problem is he hasn't got over the hump yet in his own conference which is the low bar for what they paid him for and expected. OSU is the obstacle but their not the only team thats holding him back.

Now that Urbs is gone, their fans see no reason why that should continue to be an annual L. Im not sure I blame them.

If Harbaugh can't get them there. Im not sure who they convince even with the willingness to pay.
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That and Phil was a promoted assistant with no spotlight whatsoever. Think he still had a pretty good 4th year tho.

Ftr, I'm not suggesting they fire Harbaugh, that probably would work out horribly for them. That and if he doesn't get over this hump, the recruiting continues to be subpar for them and that kind of paycheck, which is good for us.
 
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#37,908
#37,908
BruinVol said:
Would it be fair to say that regarding recruiting a sure fire elite Qb is all
We need to get back to double digit wins?


It sure feels that way to me. It feels like in the trenches we are loaded for bear

And I know Bailey is supposed to be that guy but I am saying a for sure thing at qb
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This team would have won a bunch of games with jalen hurts
 
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#37,909
#37,909
BeecherVol said:
It has some similarities because he has been better than the previous guys which was expected.

His problem is he hasn't got over the hump yet in his own conference which is the low bar for what they paid him for and expected. OSU is the obstacle but their not the only team thats holding him back.

Now that Urbs is gone, their fans see no reason why that should continue to be an annual L. Im not sure I blame them.

If Harbaugh can't get them there. Im not sure who they convince even with the willingness to pay.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's no one waiting in the wings. They got their guy and he's not the true answer they were looking for, at least not yet. After Harbaugh there's a strong chance they'll downgrade to another Hoke-level coach. Hiring a failure of a coach is the rule by a wide margin, not the exception, when you look at a long enough timeline.

I still think he'll kick the tires on the NFL thing one more time. The league loves retreads and he might be willing to jump back into it if he can go to a team with a QB.
 
#37,910
#37,910
nicksjuzunk said:
Let’s talk Michigan aside from our own level of despair right now...

How much does it stink to be a Michigan fan right now? You spent a fortune to hire who appeared to be a top NFL/College coach who is alumni, and 5 years in, there is no valid hope that they will ever break into the top tier of college football. They are mired in the later Georgia Richt years of good seasons but never threatening to win more. At least UGA had Smart on deck but if you are Michigan, who are you going to get that doesn’t look like a clear step backwards on paper? How much money?

They went all in, got their proven guy, and they are stuck as a perineal 3-4 best team in their conference with not even a sniff of a conference championship to be found.

Winning sure beats losing, but I would almost prefer the unknown hope we’ve been living on over the “this is it” which is good enough to not risk changing.
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I am curious to see if he stays another year. They made a full change of offensive philosophy this year and it has yet to pay off.
 
#37,912
#37,912
chargervol said:
Love how Tennessee hires Butch Jones for peanuts to beat Florida and a bunch of slow Big Ten teams and it's a complete failure.

Michigan breaks the bank to beat Florida and a bunch of slow Big Ten teams and it's genius.

Must be a Thursday hanging with KV and Jave. 😅
It was a great point @nicksjuzunk
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I get that you want to bash on the folks in here you consider to be "negavols"

But Michigan made a great hire, Jim isn't leaving them in the middle of the night for a different school and no other school can really compete with what he's making. He's doing exactly what most realist expected him to do at Michigan. He jumped from Stanford for the NFL job pretty quick, only had 1 season there with more than 10 wins before going to the 49ers and that's in the Pac-12 arguably the worst Power 5 conference.

He's averaging 9.5 wins a year right now (based on the 4 seasons he's completed). His worse loss so far was his first game against Utah, who isn't even a bad team.

Has he earned his keep? Not really, he's 3rd behind only Dabo/Saban but hasn't even made the playoffs yet or won a conference title. But there's not another coach in the country that wants that job more or wants to win more at Michigan than Jim Harbaugh.

Firing him would be absolutely stupid, period. If a NFL team comes calling and he bails, so be it but as long as he keeps winning 8-10 games a year and is only losing to tough conference rivals then why fire him?
 
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#37,914
#37,914
Kingston Vol said:
I’m not sure Michigan fans should care how much money they spend for Harbaugh considering it doesn’t come out of their pockets, but if we want to talk about efficient spending:

Harbaugh makes $7.5M per year and his record is 43-16. They’ve paid, roughly, $872k per win.

Jeremy Pruitt makes $3.8M per year and his record is 7-12. We’ve paid $1.08M per win.

So if we’re talking about spending efficiently - and who is getting a “bad” deal - we might want to fix our own issues before throwing stones.

And I’m going to preemptively knock down some of the talk about “it’s not fair to judge Pruitt yet” and “he had a much deeper hole to dig out of” because I do think there’s some validity to that line of thinking, but:
4 years at Michigan before Harbaugh took over: 31-20

4 years at Tennessee before Pruitt took over: 29-21

Ironically, both schools can put some blame on BRADY HOKE.
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You might wanna check you math....lol also sample size comparison
 
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#37,915
#37,915
MoCo_Vol said:
I get that you want to bash on the folks in here you consider to be "negavols"

But Michigan made a great hire, Jim isn't leaving them in the middle of the night for a different school and no other school can really compete with what he's making. He's doing exactly what most realist expected him to do at Michigan. He jumped from Stanford for the NFL job pretty quick, only had 1 season there with more than 10 wins before going to the 49ers and that's in the Pac-12 arguably the worst Power 5 conference.

He's averaging 9.5 wins a year right now (based on the 4 seasons he's completed). His worse loss so far was his first game against Utah, who isn't even a bad team.

Has he earned his keep? Not really, he's 3rd behind only Dabo/Saban but hasn't even made the playoffs yet or won a conference title. But there's not another coach in the country that wants that job more or wants to win more at Michigan than Jim Harbaugh.

Firing him would be absolutely stupid, period. If a NFL team comes calling and he bails, so be it but as long as he keeps winning 8-10 games a year and is only losing to tough conference rivals then why fire him?
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I don’t think there any credible voices calling for his firing. Now it’s a year by year speculation on him returning to the NFL. I think his style wears too thin on millionaires as opposed to the 6 figure athletes in college.
 
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#37,917
#37,917
Aesius said:
Yeah, there's no one waiting in the wings. They got their guy and he's not the true answer they were looking for, at least not yet. After Harbaugh there's a strong chance they'll downgrade to another Hoke-level coach. Hiring a failure of a coach is the rule by a wide margin, not the exception, when you look at a long enough timeline.

I still think he'll kick the tires on the NFL thing one more time. The league loves retreads and he might be willing to jump back into it if he can go to a team with a QB.
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Checked while making a point in the FF 1 day. By community standards, there was around 1% of coaches that fell under elite and around 7% that reached "man, he's really good".

It was because of people boasting about saying a coach wouldn't be the guy when hired. They roughly have a 92% chance of being correct in any given year but act like nostradamus when it happens. Human nature.
 
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#37,918
#37,918
RiotVol said:
Agree on everything but QB. He’s got Patterson, who displaced another highly ranked QB. Their problem is whatever they’ve been putting together on offense that takes pretty good QBs and turns them into slaw.
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Shea Patterson isn't Andrew Luck and hasn't shown to be elite. Sure he was a 5 star coming outta HS but hasn't lived up to it in college yet, his best season was 2600 yards and 22 TDs. For whatever reason he's regressed this year too only twice so far in 7 games has he went over 65% and 250 passing yards, has actually had 3 games with 0 TD passes too. Not sure what's going on with him this season but he isn't close to being elite.
 
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#37,920
#37,920
MoCo_Vol said:
Shea Patterson isn't Andrew Luck and hasn't shown to be elite. Sure he was a 5 star coming outta HS but hasn't lived up to it in college yet, his best season was 2600 yards and 22 TDs. For whatever reason he's regressed this year too only twice so far in 7 games has he went over 65% and 250 passing yards, has actually had 3 games with 0 TD passes too. Not sure what's going on with him this season but he isn't close to being elite.
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Some people can’t handle the stage. I think it’s tough at a northern school as well to be an elite QB with the potential for crappy weather.
 
#37,921
#37,921
butchna said:
I don’t think there any credible voices calling for his firing. Now it’s a year by year speculation on him returning to the NFL. I think his style wears too thin on millionaires as opposed to the 6 figure athletes in college.
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Honestly far as coaching goes he's pretty fantastic. Hand him a roster of NFL talent and we see what he can do, I just don't think he's a good recruiter.

Stanford success I think partly was Shaw being his OC and the quality of talent coming there, maybe not a ton of stars but you know they could at least learn the system because of the academic restrictions to get in there.
 
#37,923
#37,923
MoCo_Vol said:
Honestly far as coaching goes he's pretty fantastic. Hand him a roster of NFL talent and we see what he can do, I just don't think he's a good recruiter.

Stanford success I think partly was Shaw being his OC and the quality of talent coming there, maybe not a ton of stars but you know they could at least learn the system because of the academic restrictions to get in there.
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In this playoff era, you’re not afforded the time to become a Clemson...the time that Dabo was afforded. “I want this to be that NOW” rules supreme. Harbaugh will be able to coach his long as he wishes. Michigan’s seen the alternative. My entire contribution on this subject is to spotlight the message board coaching search fallacy of “hire a proven winner” doesn’t translate to instant playoff success.
 
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#37,924
#37,924
crazyguy said:
Some people can’t handle the stage. I think it’s tough at a northern school as well to be an elite QB with the potential for crappy weather.
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Fair point. Jim's never really embraced dual threats either, if he had a Hurts type QB he could negate a lot of his issues at QB. I actually think that helped him with the 49ers, he inherited Alex Smith who isn't an elite runner but can do it. Then Colin takes over and they make the SB behind an elite running QB. Course that 8-8 season I think by then his personality had grinded on everyone within the organization so he was sent packing.
 
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#37,925
#37,925
butchna said:
In this playoff era, you’re not afforded the time to become a Clemson...the time that Dabo was afforded. “I want this to be that NOW” rules supreme. Harbaugh will be able to coach his long as he wishes. Michigan’s seen the alternative. My entire contribution on this subject is to spotlight the message board coaching search fallacy of “hire a proven winner” doesn’t translate to instant playoff success.
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And Michigan is a lot like us where you can have a really good team and still lose two games because you play Alabama/Ohio State and Georgia/Penn State.

What the playoff has done is eliminate the middle ground.
 
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