Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#19,878
#19,878
WebbCobb said:
Not disputing this but how is it that no one inside the program seemingly realized this until now? Anything that leaked out from the coaching staff and VFLs this summer indicated a bunch of optimism in this team.
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I can think of 2 possible answers to your question.
  • It was an orchestrated campaign to sell more season tickets because optimism sells. If this was the plan it worked. From what I understand we sold around 8,000 more season tickets this year than we did last year.
  • Nobody knew. Pruitt has repeatedly said this is a good football team. He really likes these guys. Granted he probably can’t say the opposite but he went what I would consider well out of his way to boost expectations for this season. Maybe he and his staff misjudged the team and what they could do.
I personally don’t think the question is the right one. If you’re going to “protect” the coaches you’ve got to pin the cause on the players and right now we’ve got to figure out some way to take the heat off of the overpaid men running the program and this includes Fulmer.

I think the Georgia State debacle and ensuing fallout had a devastating impact on everybody. To Pruitt it was just another loss but a lot of fans, media types, maybe some of his staff, and probably a lot of his players lost trust in him. We, all of us, got hit by a hurricane of epic proportions, 4th largest in the entire 150 year history of college football. Recovery is not swift. It’s easy to dismiss the Georgia State game as just one game but I don’t think it always works that way in real life. If we had come out prepared and taken care of business in week 1 I think we’d probably be undefeated right now. We didn’t and we’re not so we have to shift the blame. It is no longer acceptable to blame the gays for the destruction that accompanies these sorts of disasters but we can’t blame the coaches so who’s left? jmo.
 
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#19,879
#19,879
engineerVOL said:
Hard for me to believe Pruitt running off the older guys is going to pan out. He has no history, no head-coaching equity, to tell me this will work.
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I think that these upperclassmen expected to be handed the starting positions. Rude wake up call when an incoming Freshman beat them out for the first team position. Rather than work harder, it’s easier to quit and transfer. Seems to be a trend with this age group. “If at first you don’t succeed, quit.” Appears to be the norm rather than the exception. The transfer portal just enables this attitude. JMO.

Generation PT will not help the future, especially if they raise their offspring in the same manner. (PT = Participation Trophy)
 
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#19,880
#19,880
Seeing the 16 and 17 class it should be no surprise that we are were we are. It does however make me hopeful that as the season goes on some young guys get better and we see progress. UGA and Bama are going to curb stomp us and I think Missouri is a loss. MSU, Sc, Vandy, UAB, and Ky are all winnable games. I’m not saying we will I’m just saying they are winnable if the team keeps fighting.

Then hopefully we hit the 2020 class with some more Henry T’s etc and we start to dig our way out
 
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#19,881
#19,881
volsfan_17 said:
Anyone else hear Barton Simmons on ESPN U radio a little while ago? They asked him about Tennessee, and to my surprise he was relatively upbeat, said obviously we're not seeing the results on the field that we would like, but he was confident that with our staff we would be able to continue to recruit well and get this turned around.

He was asked specifically about our current transfers leaving the program and he alluded to Butch Jones classes being recruits that were more interested in being recruited than they were playing football.

He went on the say that the 2019 class were football players first and foremost. Seemed to think the blueprint for that class and future classes is correct and will help right the ship.

I thought it was interesting to say the least.
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But if this staff can't coach up 50 VN Message Board members to win SEC games, they must truly suck.
 
#19,885
#19,885
jordan4vols said:
Seeing the 16 and 17 class it should be no surprise that we are were we are. It does however make me hopeful that as the season goes on some young guys get better and we see progress. UGA and Bama are going to curb stomp us and I think Missouri is a loss. MSU, Sc, Vandy, UAB, and Ky are all winnable games. I’m not saying we will I’m just saying they are winnable if the team keeps fighting.

Then hopefully we hit the 2020 class with some more Henry T’s etc and we start to dig our way out
Click to expand...
The 16, 17 and even 18 classes were not good. I’m not going to argue with you that they were. That would be stupid.

But what we don’t know in these sorts of situations is how those first two classes play out if the coaches that recruited them were still here developing them.

I’m not saying Butch or his staff was better at development than the current one - especially so from a strength and conditioning standpoint - but there has to be some drop off in theoretical high-end outcomes simply due to the fact a lot of these guys aren’t playing in the systems they were recruited to play nor are they being developed by coaches they signed up to play for.
 
#19,887
#19,887
ChattaTNVol said:
I can think of 2 possible answers to your question.
  • It was an orchestrated campaign to sell more season tickets because optimism sells. If this was the plan it worked. From what I understand we sold around 8,000 more season tickets this year than we did last year.
  • Nobody knew. Pruitt has repeatedly said this is a good football team. He really likes these guys. Granted he probably can’t say the opposite but he went what I would consider well out of his way to boost expectations for this season. Maybe he and his staff misjudged the team and what they could do.
I personally don’t think the question is the right one. If you’re going to “protect” the coaches you’ve got to pin the cause on the players and right now we’ve got to figure out some way to take the heat off of the overpaid men running the program and this includes Fulmer.

I think the Georgia State debacle and ensuing fallout had a devastating impact on everybody. To Pruitt it was just another loss but a lot of fans, media types, maybe some of his staff, and probably a lot of his players lost trust in him. We, all of us, got hit by a hurricane of epic proportions, 4th largest in the entire 150 year history of college football. Recovery is not swift. It’s easy to dismiss the Georgia State game as just one game but I don’t think it always works that way in real life. If we had come out prepared and taken care of business in week 1 I think we’d probably be undefeated right now. We didn’t and we’re not so we have to shift the blame. It is no longer acceptable to blame the gays for the destruction that accompanies these sorts of disasters but we can’t blame the coaches so who’s left? jmo.
Click to expand...
A lot of it could just be outcome bias. The season has been bad, so it’s natural to look around and say the roster is really bad.

If we were 4-0, we’d be talking about the same roster as really good and how well the coaches have done to develop them. In reality we’d be talking about the same players.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The roster is worse than we thought and the coaches aren’t as good as we thought.
 
#19,889
#19,889
WebbCobb said:
Not disputing this but how is it that no one inside the program seemingly realized this until now? Anything that leaked out from the coaching staff and VFLs this summer indicated a bunch of optimism in this team.
Click to expand...
So you wanted the coaches and VFL's to say that the team sucked? What a way to instill confidence.
Lyle did not recruit well the last 2 years, and it shows in the play of the Juniors and Seniors.
 
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#19,890
#19,890
Also, I had the opportunity to chat with a National college football writer a little over the weekend and he said it is notorious among coaching staffs and media around the country that the Knoxville media - especially the Rivals and 247 sites - throw out a ton of false positive rumors in order to drive clicks for the fanbase. He mentioned things like coaching searches, recruiting and camp reports.

This guy follows recruiting pretty heavily, and his exact comment was along the lines of: “one of the VolQuest guys kept saying x player was going to flip to Tennessee so I called the one of the coaches on staff at the place he was committed at the time. He told me he was totally solid to them and not even considering a visit. He signed with that school on signing day.”
 
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#19,893
#19,893
WebbCobb said:
Not disputing this but how is it that no one inside the program seemingly realized this until now? Anything that leaked out from the coaching staff and VFLs this summer indicated a bunch of optimism in this team.
Click to expand...
The VFLs I assume you’re talking about - Ainge and Swain the most obvious - can’t exactly be tough on the program without losing some access. They have to toe the line.
 
#19,894
#19,894
Rucker's piece--- read it... okay... here's the thing, you can't tell me that on paper our roster has been worse than the Mizz KY SC Vandy and even Miss St..... yet they seem to be years ahead of us... Coaching....

Still stuck on the fact that we need high tier talent in order to get this thing turned... and now we will struggle to stay inside of the top 30 IMO...
Hopefully Pruitt and staff can continue to work miracles on the recruiting trail and existing commits can talk us up.

I think everyone will agree, this is the year where Nieds will really show out if he is indeed the recruiting stud everyone thinks he is... this will be the hardest year to recruit for us based on our W-L record in year two...
 
#19,895
#19,895
Kingston Vol said:
Also, I had the opportunity to chat with a National college football writer a little over the weekend and he said it is notorious among coaching staffs and media around the country that the Knoxville media - especially the Rivals and 247 sites - throw out a ton of false positive rumors in order to drive clicks for the fanbase. He mentioned things like coaching searches, recruiting and camp reports.

This guy follows recruiting pretty heavily, and his exact comment was along the lines of: “one of the VolQuest guys kept saying x player was going to flip to Tennessee so I called the one of the coaches on staff at the place he was committed at the time. He told me he was totally solid to them and not even considering a visit. He signed with that school on signing day.”
Click to expand...

What in particular do the paysites and local media do differently here in Knoxville? Anything else you can share from your chat?

I get that the the local media straddles a fine line between hostile agitator and state-propaganda, but Knoxville isn't unique in that regard. Likewise, the paysites will put out content that drives clicks and impressions, but you're going to find that's the case with paysites across the board.

Just curious as to what methods and tactics are utilized by the media here, and what role they're playing in the situation in and around the program. Any further insight would be appreciated.
 
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#19,897
#19,897
Kingston Vol said:
Also, I had the opportunity to chat with a National college football writer a little over the weekend and he said it is notorious among coaching staffs and media around the country that the Knoxville media - especially the Rivals and 247 sites - throw out a ton of false positive rumors in order to drive clicks for the fanbase. He mentioned things like coaching searches, recruiting and camp reports.

This guy follows recruiting pretty heavily, and his exact comment was along the lines of: “one of the VolQuest guys kept saying x player was going to flip to Tennessee so I called the one of the coaches on staff at the place he was committed at the time. He told me he was totally solid to them and not even considering a visit. He signed with that school on signing day.”
Click to expand...

Good info here and most of us aren't shocked by it.... the thing is though, we've had recruits tell the coach they are 100% committed and then flip on signing day... even throwing our hat across the gym floor...
 
#19,898
#19,898
This two weeks of practice and planning lays the groundwork for the rest of the season and 2020. Either Pruitt and staff get that or they don't and we all move on at some point fairly soon. What has been presented as a Vol football team for the past 2 seasons and 4 games this season is a travesty and pimple on the great Gen. Neyland's tail.

They need to bust their arses to win or they should leave. Pruitt needs to enforce that and it will all work out over time.
 
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#19,900
#19,900
volinbama256 said:
Rucker's piece--- read it... okay... here's the thing, you can't tell me that on paper our roster has been worse than the Mizz KY SC Vandy and even Miss St..... yet they seem to be years ahead of us... Coaching....

Still stuck on the fact that we need high tier talent in order to get this thing turned... and now we will struggle to stay inside of the top 30 IMO...
Hopefully Pruitt and staff can continue to work miracles on the recruiting trail and existing commits can talk us up.

I think everyone will agree, this is the year where Nieds will really show out if he is indeed the recruiting stud everyone thinks he is... this will be the hardest year to recruit for us based on our W-L record in year two...
Click to expand...
JG was a 4 star recruit, the #1 DT QB....that is all you need to know about whatever paper roster you are looking at. Paper rosters don't win you games. Recruiting services are flawed, as we have seen. Recruiting services can not measure heart, intelligence, pride, or any other intangibles that are needed to win. Coaching can only do so much, if the talent is not there, the talent is not there. We have what we have until we can cycle the talent in that we need.
 
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