Realistic options with our HC (Long Post)

[Dudleys87]

I think it’s time to stop the excuses.

Every successful coach has shown improvement in their second year not regression.

How many coaches play with the guys we have? They don’t want to commit to win. They merely making the rounds now and there’s not a damn thing these coaches can do.

 

[KeyVol14]

Didn’t say that at all

The jury is out after losing to GSU and the end to last year. We kept on for butch to long and we will do the same now

 

[james_govols]

Because firing and hiring has worked so well...

Stop expecting to be champions over night.

Firing and hiring doesn't work when the administration are a bunch of idiots.

Instead of hiring Kiffin, they could have got Gary Patterson or Brian Kelley.

Instead of Dooley, they could have got Cutcliffe.

Let's not even talk about the last coaching search.

The point is, to be successful you have to hire people who have been successful. If not, it's a shot in the dark.

 

[plumbervol]

I would not be upset if we keep Pruitt or let him go after this season or next. I understand the reasons why either decision would be made and both have merit. The question is how much pain can the program take. The program will be hurt with 2 more lopsided losses and whatever other troubles we have this season. At what point is the decision made to make a change an attempt to add a little excitement and hope for the best? Attendance will fall this season and apathy is already here. The question becomes when to make such decisions and how long to let the program continue on its current path hoping that something positive happens. At this point the only game that matters is the Vandy game.

 

[ptcarter]

Coaches make the money because of how much revenue football brings in. Coaches in smaller conferences and schools don’t make as much because ... that’s right, there isn’t as much revenue to justify it. This is a brand worth hundreds of millions if not a billion when it’s firing on all cylinders .

Like Alabama and Clemson now, we saw power t merchandise all over the country.

The fatal flaw is being cheap and trying to switch to an academic program. Basically admin wanted us to be Vandy so now we are Vandy.

You get what you pay for, and we haven’t invested in winning football in over a decade.

I think we do need a proven head coach next pop. But throwing gobs of money at someone who may be over the hill is a danger. I watched Texas A&M play Auburn yesterday. Jimbo has $75,000,000.00 guaranteed. That’s a lot. He left FSU in a pretty rough bind and I think with time,T A&M will have some buyers remorse. I can think of a whole lot of coaches that can and will take advantage of Tennessee’s neediness and sell us a bill of goods. Meyer comes to mind. Be careful about the open your checkbook mentality. It may not be the solution.

 

[Jabruzar]

I had posted this as a reply in another thread but I think I hit on a few points that are worth discussion in a thread by itself.

Phillip Fulmer - 2 losing seasons in 4 years.
It's been 80+ years since we stooped this low.
Fah'r Fulmer!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Lane Kiffin - 7-6 Meh... fly by night
He embarrassed us nationally, sabotaged recruiting, and left us with violations. Can't let that embarrassment happen again....

D. Dooley - New historic Lows.
Two losing seasons in 3 years(or was it all 3...?). Top that Fulmer! 20+ year win streaks against Vanderbilt & Kentucky snapped in back to back years.
Fah'r Dooley!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Butch Jones - Another Historic Low
Starts off decent and benefits from historic legacy recruiting classes. Quickly exposed as out of his element with a plethora of strategy & player relation disasters. Becomes condescending and patronizing towards media and our fan base.
Engineers our historic worst 8 loss season.
4-8, take that Fulmer & Dooley
Fah'r Butch. Can't let that happen again...

Jim Pruitt - New Historic Low/s?
5-5 and then wow does the other shoe drop hard for a 5-7 first season.
6 of those losses by +25 points.
Now possibly inline for yet another new historic low, a 1-3 win season.
Fah'r Pruitt!!??? Can't let this happen again..???



To everyone criticising the notion of giving Pruitt more time; How in the world does firing our 5th coach in this downward spiral after 2years, a shorter leash than his predecessors received, break the cycle of stooping to new historic lows?
We'll fire a NC winning Tennessee blue blood. It seems virtually no resume of Power5/SEC success can provide enough job security to sustain two losing seasons in a 4year period.

We tried unproven SEC royalty out of desperation after Kiffin ghosted us. Now we know better. Blood lines be daMned, a coach with little experience and a losing record below the Power 5 isn't an option.

A coach with a half way decent track record below the Power 5 will definitely be run out after sub .500 season if he maxes at 8/9 wins and loses to inferior talent.


Aside from some White Night savior like Urban Myer(which just isn't gonna happen) publicly proclaiming he wants the job; how does it make sense to fire Pruitt now?
What would it take to get a plan A or plan B HC that might be able to pull off the rebuild? Like Mike Leach, Gundy, or Les Miles?
I'm not asking to vent and pontificate over what might have, could have, should have happened in a 2017 hypothetical during/after the Currie to Fulmer transition.
I'm in the present here and now. Would one of those type coaches even be willing to take the job knowing that 8/9 wins isn't enough if they don't win the SEC East within 5 years and they have a losing season?
Would they take the job knowing that we are severely lacking in leadership from our upperclassmen and most the ones producing will be gone next year. J. Jennings, Calloway, D. Taylor, Bituli, all gone.
Knowing that it is inevitable some of our blue chip underclassmen will transfer when the coach that recruited them leaves.

How much would we have to overpay to get a coach with Power5 experience to take over? And how do we know we're not bringing in a new stooge? I personaly don't think Gundy or Leach would better 8/9 wins and am skeptical of how Miles would perform.

No, just not losing to the Sun Belt and beating Group of 5 teams like BYU would not be enough. Within 5 years we'd push them out because 8/9 wins and 3rd in the East isn't enough........ The outrage that has led to our coaching carousel is because we are Tennessee and we expect to compete for championships. At best we're placated for a few years and then it's time for a coaching search if we're not in realistic contention.

I think Pruitt & his staff need at least 1more year and should receive it.
I have several reasons for thinking this but I'll keep it as brief as I can as this is a long post.

1. Chaney has a proven record of notable progress (significantly improving yards & ppg) his second year when he switches teams. Several regulars posted links to very informed and statistical breakdowns during the off-season.
2. Pruitt has never had to build an elite defense. He has inherited rosters full of 4/5 star 3rd-5th year players and proved he can excel with 3 different programs. He is 1 1/2 recruiting classes away from having that kind of talent and experience at UT.
3. I believe Fulmer & Pruitt knew we needed a complete rebuild to change our culture and that our fan base is more surprised by our struggles than they are.
With the amount of upper classmen we've had hit the portal, Sapp going Pro, players leaving the team after ridiculing us on social meeting, Ignont being left behind (unannounced until the last second) on an SEC roadtrip; ......

You can't convince me that we are not conscientiously tearing down our team to rebuild the culture.
I think Pruitt severely overestimated how fast he could push the culture change while trying to compensate for our OL&DL deficiencies & the decision to go with JG this season blew up in his face to create a perfect storm.
The dumb Alabama hillbilly has just learned enough to know he can't disparage our team and say "I'll get 25more players in here that are willing to play the right way".


I'll stop explaining why I don't think Pruitt should be fired before the end of 2020, my arguments won't change anybody's mind.

What I want to know is how the people that think it's unreasonable to give Pruitt more time are proposing anything more realistic than watching our proud program stoop to new lows and embarrassments with yet another coaching search?

You are 100% correct which is the reason I will not waste my hard earned money on a trip to Neyland this year (for the first time in 36 years). It’s the reason I didn’t watch the game yesterday (the first Tennessee vs Florida game I have ever avoided watching). After a decade of enduring this crap show; I just can’t do it anymore.

 

[JokermanVol]

At this point we have to pray Pruitt makes it. I agree with giving him at least til next year. But at this point he looks hopeless. There are major basic management problems with this guy and the only way to fix it is to rebuild a new foundation starting in the offseason, with new staff members and new philosophy. That's way too much to expect though so I think this idiot will never make it here.

 

[brkelley199]

Concerns for letting him go are two fold imo.

1) hiring another unknown commodity at coach which may or not work. Pruitt is currently recruiting well, if you hire an unknown coach that can't recruit then there's no path forward really.

2) In the coaching community I could imagine there is concern for taking over the program that (whether fair or not) the perception is the fan base has no patience. Why would as a top coaching candidate (which we really need to hire next go around instead of the typical choices we have made) you pick Tennessee where the talent level is atrocious currently and you inherit a roster that's on its third coach and the previous staff didn't even get a full recruiting cycle? So you're looking at a bad upperclassmen group and not much in the younger groups if the recruiting class falls apart. If the perception is you only get 2 years to show something or you're gone and you've got no talent to work with, are you really going to risk your career on that? Or do you wait for another job to come open?

Not advocating that Pruitt is the guy, he's definitely not shown anything on the field to say he's even close it mediocre. But if he can bring in another talented class, with the best QB prospect we've seen in awhile, then that would make the job much more appealing IMO. Bailey would be one hell of a selling point if he's as good as advertised. If there's no improvement in year 3 I think there's much more justification for letting him go. If someone like Bob Stoops (or Meyer) is reaching out begging for the job that changes everything, but realistically speaking I don't think there's going to be any big names clamoring for the job this year with this roster.

 

[HollowaytoSeivers]

Jim Pruitt? Who?

That's the problem. We hired Jeremy's evil twin, Jim.

 

[revjayp]

When you ain’t the guy, you ain’t the guy.

He ain’t the guy.

Everyone goes through the same “set the program back” mantra and I get the idea.

But, I think most people have it right. The wrong guy sets you back more than finding a new one.

These coaching hires have done more damage to Tennessee’s program than probation did to Florida in the 80’s

But who’s hiring the new guy? The same person who hired the old guy. So while I love what Fulmer did as a coach, I don’t trust him to hire anyone that may be perceived as better than him. He wants to be known as the greatest coach ever at TN which I think hinders his decision making. JMO...

 

[Dudleys87]

Firing and hiring doesn't work when the administration are a bunch of idiots.

Instead of hiring Kiffin, they could have got Gary Patterson or Brian Kelley.

Instead of Dooley, they could have got Cutcliffe.

Let's not even talk about the last coaching search.

The point is, to be successful you have to hire people who have been successful. If not, it's a shot in the dark.

Cut is never going to come back here. I still believe he is hurt over how he was treated.

Gary Patterson just got worked by Sunny Dykes and SMU

I’d rather not have Kelley here. He’s genuinely a POS. Much worse than Meyer IMO.

 

[Dudleys87]

The jury is out after losing to GSU and the end to last year. We kept on for butch to long and we will do the same now

Don’t forget what Butch did off the field that was awful in the AD

 

[KeyVol14]

Don’t forget what Butch did off the field that was awful in the AD

I'm not following?

 

[Dudleys87]

I'm not following?

The man was a creep to the point where people wouldn’t walk down the hall with him.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

I have said previously that I don't think Pruitt will be fired for any reason this season, short of some kind of scandal. For that to happen, Fulmer would likely have to be fired as well, as I would expect him strongly advocate patience and giving Pruitt time. If I had been Pruitt (or any new coach coming in to the situation Pruitt came into) I would have made clear that I would need at least XX seasons to turn the ship around, and I believe (but of course don't know) that he got that commitment from the AD. I agree that the team seems to be playing worse every week. Some of that is on the head coach, and fans are right to criticize the coach for the seeming lack of preparation and discipline, and lack of fundamentally sound play.

Flame all you want, but he ain't going anywhere until, at the very earliest, the end of next season. And if the team improves its play as this season progresses (hard to see how they can't go up from here) and doesn't repeat this season's disasters in 2020, Pruitt will be back for 2021. JMHO.

If that is really the plan, then Fulmer needs to take control of this and address the fanbase directly and bluntly. He just needs to come out and say we're not good, we won't be good for at least a few years, the guy he hired may or may not be the person who makes us good, but irregardless of all that Pruitt will not be fired as long as Fulmer is AD.

 

[JohnD13]

I had posted this as a reply in another thread but I think I hit on a few points that are worth discussion in a thread by itself.

Phillip Fulmer - 2 losing seasons in 4 years.
It's been 80+ years since we stooped this low.
Fah'r Fulmer!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Lane Kiffin - 7-6 Meh... fly by night
He embarrassed us nationally, sabotaged recruiting, and left us with violations. Can't let that embarrassment happen again....

D. Dooley - New historic Lows.
Two losing seasons in 3 years(or was it all 3...?). Top that Fulmer! 20+ year win streaks against Vanderbilt & Kentucky snapped in back to back years.
Fah'r Dooley!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Butch Jones - Another Historic Low
Starts off decent and benefits from historic legacy recruiting classes. Quickly exposed as out of his element with a plethora of strategy & player relation disasters. Becomes condescending and patronizing towards media and our fan base.
Engineers our historic worst 8 loss season.
4-8, take that Fulmer & Dooley
Fah'r Butch. Can't let that happen again...

Jim Pruitt - New Historic Low/s?
5-5 and then wow does the other shoe drop hard for a 5-7 first season.
6 of those losses by +25 points.
Now possibly inline for yet another new historic low, a 1-3 win season.
Fah'r Pruitt!!??? Can't let this happen again..???



To everyone criticising the notion of giving Pruitt more time; How in the world does firing our 5th coach in this downward spiral after 2years, a shorter leash than his predecessors received, break the cycle of stooping to new historic lows?
We'll fire a NC winning Tennessee blue blood. It seems virtually no resume of Power5/SEC success can provide enough job security to sustain two losing seasons in a 4year period.

We tried unproven SEC royalty out of desperation after Kiffin ghosted us. Now we know better. Blood lines be daMned, a coach with little experience and a losing record below the Power 5 isn't an option.

A coach with a half way decent track record below the Power 5 will definitely be run out after sub .500 season if he maxes at 8/9 wins and loses to inferior talent.


Aside from some White Night savior like Urban Myer(which just isn't gonna happen) publicly proclaiming he wants the job; how does it make sense to fire Pruitt now?
What would it take to get a plan A or plan B HC that might be able to pull off the rebuild? Like Mike Leach, Gundy, or Les Miles?
I'm not asking to vent and pontificate over what might have, could have, should have happened in a 2017 hypothetical during/after the Currie to Fulmer transition.
I'm in the present here and now. Would one of those type coaches even be willing to take the job knowing that 8/9 wins isn't enough if they don't win the SEC East within 5 years and they have a losing season?
Would they take the job knowing that we are severely lacking in leadership from our upperclassmen and most the ones producing will be gone next year. J. Jennings, Calloway, D. Taylor, Bituli, all gone.
Knowing that it is inevitable some of our blue chip underclassmen will transfer when the coach that recruited them leaves.

How much would we have to overpay to get a coach with Power5 experience to take over? And how do we know we're not bringing in a new stooge? I personaly don't think Gundy or Leach would better 8/9 wins and am skeptical of how Miles would perform.

No, just not losing to the Sun Belt and beating Group of 5 teams like BYU would not be enough. Within 5 years we'd push them out because 8/9 wins and 3rd in the East isn't enough........ The outrage that has led to our coaching carousel is because we are Tennessee and we expect to compete for championships. At best we're placated for a few years and then it's time for a coaching search if we're not in realistic contention.

I think Pruitt & his staff need at least 1more year and should receive it.
I have several reasons for thinking this but I'll keep it as brief as I can as this is a long post.

1. Chaney has a proven record of notable progress (significantly improving yards & ppg) his second year when he switches teams. Several regulars posted links to very informed and statistical breakdowns during the off-season.
2. Pruitt has never had to build an elite defense. He has inherited rosters full of 4/5 star 3rd-5th year players and proved he can excel with 3 different programs. He is 1 1/2 recruiting classes away from having that kind of talent and experience at UT.
3. I believe Fulmer & Pruitt knew we needed a complete rebuild to change our culture and that our fan base is more surprised by our struggles than they are.
With the amount of upper classmen we've had hit the portal, Sapp going Pro, players leaving the team after ridiculing us on social meeting, Ignont being left behind (unannounced until the last second) on an SEC roadtrip; ......

You can't convince me that we are not conscientiously tearing down our team to rebuild the culture.
I think Pruitt severely overestimated how fast he could push the culture change while trying to compensate for our OL&DL deficiencies & the decision to go with JG this season blew up in his face to create a perfect storm.
The dumb Alabama hillbilly has just learned enough to know he can't disparage our team and say "I'll get 25more players in here that are willing to play the right way".


I'll stop explaining why I don't think Pruitt should be fired before the end of 2020, my arguments won't change anybody's mind.

What I want to know is how the people that think it's unreasonable to give Pruitt more time are proposing anything more realistic than watching our proud program stoop to new lows and embarrassments with yet another coaching search?

Site needs length limit on posts. Some of you think you'll be paid by the word

 

[james_govols]

Double

 

[diehardvolsfan]

Would USC fire Tyson Helton if he were to stumble to 3-9? Currently 3-1 after that upset over Utah....

 

[Dudleys87]

Would USC fire Tyson Helton if he were to stumble to 3-9? Currently 3-1 after that upset over Utah....

Well then that surely means since Meyer was a lock there as early as last week that Tennessee is now the front runner smh

 

[West Vol]

Of all the guys mentioned in the OP, Kiffin by far “embarrassed us nationally” the least.

 

[chattavol420]

If the goal is to go cheap for another bargain bin hire, we need to give Pruitt 4 years..

If we are made aware through the agent grapevine that a proven winner is interested in TN (For example, Bob Stoops), then the plug should be pulled..

I agree to an extent. Not sure we need to be aware through a representative though. We could reach out to their representative and try to convince them we are the right place. Mainly...Meyer. He’s the ultimate hire. And commented specifically on Tennessee recently. I don’t think that was a coincidence as calculating if a guy as he is. I hope behind the scenes our power brokers will reach out to his people and can convince him that we are the team for him.

 

[diehardvolsfan]

Well then that surely means since Meyer was a lock there as early as last week that Tennessee is now the front runner smh

We all know Urban couldn’t handle TN or the administration getting in his business or the damn Haslams running s***. If TN will ever get out of their funk they have been wallowing in for the better part of 10 years they gotta kick the Haslams out of the University get rid of PF and hire COMPETENT people that KNOW how to run a multi-million a year football program....

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

I think we do need a proven head coach next pop. But throwing gobs of money at someone who may be over the hill is a danger. I watched Texas A&M play Auburn yesterday. Jimbo has $75,000,000.00 guaranteed. That’s a lot. He left FSU in a pretty rough bind and I think with time,T A&M will have some buyers remorse. I can think of a whole lot of coaches that can and will take advantage of Tennessee’s neediness and sell us a bill of goods. Meyer comes to mind. Be careful about the open your checkbook mentality. It may not be the solution.

Yes. This. There is a popular delusion on this board that all we have to do is back up a Brink's truck and hire a "proven" head coach, and things will then magically turn around. The Fisher situation at A&M is demonstrating that this view is a logical fallacy. They broke the bank to hire him, and so far at least, he hasn't gotten them there. He may yet, but I wouldn't hold my breath. But, the A&M fan base isn't calling for his head 4 games into his 2nd season. Go figure.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

Firing and hiring doesn't work when the administration are a bunch of idiots.

Instead of hiring Kiffin, they could have got Gary Patterson or Brian Kelley.

Instead of Dooley, they could have got Cutcliffe.

Let's not even talk about the last coaching search.

The point is, to be successful you have to hire people who have been successful. If not, it's a shot in the dark.

Well, you know, as embarrassing as that whole Schaiano thing was with Currie, who's to say that we wouldn't be winning big right now if Schiano had been hired? The "idiot" Currie may have ended up hiring a winner, with a history of turning around bad programs, but the fan base wouldn't let him. We'll never know....

 

[DaddyChad]

I think it’s time to stop the excuses.

Every successful coach has shown improvement in their second year not regression.

What did he say that wasn’t true? Again with a QB this team is 3-1 worse case scenario and might even be 4-0. Do you see a great QB on this team?