Realistic options with our HC (Long Post)

[EconVol92]

Truly the only options are hiring a proven A level head coach who is currently not coaching power 5 level leadership due to leaving a power 5 job or having baggage. The only coaches I can think of are Meyer, Freeze, Stoops or possibly Kiffin.

Meyer is most likely USC bound, it would take a boat load of money for this along with accepting his baggage. Would the fan base accept him?

Freeze could be had for less money and he has an NCAA penalty to be served as a head coach (4 game suspension if I remember correctly). Again would the fan base accept his baggage?

Stoops is in the clear as far as baggage, but it would take quite a bit of money and he would have to be looking for a project to take this on and I don’t think a proven coach would want that kind of frustration.

Kiffin would be interesting, but a gamble as he really is not proven for more than a coordinator at this time and Fulmer would not hire him. The contract would have to be Tennessee friendly given the history.

Now why not keep Pruitt, he is already here and has been successful as a coordinator just like Kiffin.

He doesn’t have the baggage like Meyer or Freeze, but he also does not have the success either.

I say giving Pruitt more time is the best choice as he needs to get his players in place before making a decision on his abilities as a head coach.

If we are not going to keep Pruitt then to me Freeze would be the next place to go as he would be more affordable and proven.

After that I would say Meyer and Stoops would be about the same as it would take huge money for either, most likely more for Stoops.

Kiffin would be the last choice of these, due to never having achieved success as head coach at this time.

 

[Weezer]

We have the money to keep making changes, but not an idea what to do. Phil was hired by a Chancellor fired soon thereafter. He likely won’t be allowed to make the next hire. So we have no one in the administration or AD who has success within this area.

I must have missed when we installed that mint in Neyland that makes money not a problem.

 

[photovol]

Just accept the fact that Tennessee is the bottom of the barrel in the SEC, it is what it is, until it isn't

 

[MemphisVol77]

Between GA State and BYU weeks, all we heard was how there were signs of improvement all over the field. Now that we've played a good but not great SEC team, everyone can see that the signs of improvement were just an illusion aided by a weak opponent. Now, it's all about staying the course, flipping the roster, changing the culture, all things that are very subjective and could leave this discussion unresolved for years as fans battle back and forth among themselves over perceived signs of improvement, regression, or stagnation. The only objective measuring sticks that we have are the win/loss record and recruiting. If a staff is not delivering wins and elite recruits, then it is incumbent on the head coach to advance a vision and convince the fan base that his plan will work. The easiest way a head coach can sell his vision is to be able to point to examples of where he's done it before. Saying 'give me five classes to get my guys and then we'll show you something' doesn't cut it. Anyone can say that and if you don't have a track record as a program builder it just comes off as 'leave me alone for 5 years and you'll see if I was worth keeping around.' We didn't hire a guy who's built programs. We didn't hire a guy with a vision. We hired a guy who has been around, but did not built, three very good football programs. Basically, we hired someone who knows what a championship football team should look like. That's not a lot to have faith in, especially when you start your second season the way Pruitt has. My position is that people with less experience in new positions should be on a shorter leash than people who have done it before. If three years was long enough to figure out Dooley, who had head coaching experience and went to a bowl in year one, then two years is enough to figure out Pruitt if the objective measurements of wins/losses and recruiting are clear.

Correct. There’s going to have to be more subjective reasons to keep him beyond wins and losses.

I'm with you guys. I think given the state we're in we should keep him through 2020 but my reasoning becomes mute when I admit he has severely under performed.

I'm looking for the subjective reason to believe we'll finally get the coaching search right. I don't want to fire him only because GaSt/BYU was unacceptable.
If we don't have a subjective X=Why we'll get the hire right and not regress yet again then I think keeping him through 2020 becomes warranted.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

Because firing and hiring has worked so well...

Stop expecting to be champions over night.

Georgia State..

I dont expect to be champions overnight. However i do expect to beat the cupcakes and mot get blown out by Vandy..my expectations are low but this HC cant seem to clear even the middle school hurdles.

 

[Elhanan]

Good example of what I’ve been talking about.

UT is getting plenty of cover from loyalist that will “stand by their man” no matter what.

Combo that with the fact that UT will never spend real money on a good enough coach to matter and you’ll know right where we are.

Screwed.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

Because firing and hiring has worked so well...

Stop expecting to be champions over night.

Yeah I don’t think anyone is expecting to be champions overnight, but is beating Georgia State and BYU and playing competitive with Florida or at least scoring 1 touchdown to high of an expectation for coach cornbread in his second year?

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

I had posted this as a reply in another thread but I think I hit on a few points that are worth discussion in a thread by itself.

Phillip Fulmer - 2 losing seasons in 4 years.
It's been 80+ years since we stooped this low.
Fah'r Fulmer!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Lane Kiffin - 7-6 Meh... fly by night
He embarrassed us nationally, sabotaged recruiting, and left us with violations. Can't let that embarrassment happen again....

D. Dooley - New historic Lows.
Two losing seasons in 3 years(or was it all 3...?). Top that Fulmer! 20+ year win streaks against Vanderbilt & Kentucky snapped in back to back years.
Fah'r Dooley!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Butch Jones - Another Historic Low
Starts off decent and benefits from historic legacy recruiting classes. Quickly exposed as out of his element with a plethora of strategy & player relation disasters. Becomes condescending and patronizing towards media and our fan base.
Engineers our historic worst 8 loss season.
4-8, take that Fulmer & Dooley
Fah'r Butch. Can't let that happen again...

Jim Pruitt - New Historic Low/s?
5-5 and then wow does the other shoe drop hard for a 5-7 first season.
6 of those losses by +25 points.
Now possibly inline for yet another new historic low, a 1-3 win season.
Fah'r Pruitt!!??? Can't let this happen again..???



To everyone criticising the notion of giving Pruitt more time; How in the world does firing our 5th coach in this downward spiral after 2years, a shorter leash than his predecessors received, break the cycle of stooping to new historic lows?
We'll fire a NC winning Tennessee blue blood. It seems virtually no resume of Power5/SEC success can provide enough job security to sustain two losing seasons in a 4year period.

We tried unproven SEC royalty out of desperation after Kiffin ghosted us. Now we know better. Blood lines be daMned, a coach with little experience and a losing record below the Power 5 isn't an option.

A coach with a half way decent track record below the Power 5 will definitely be run out after sub .500 season if he maxes at 8/9 wins and loses to inferior talent.


Aside from some White Night savior like Urban Myer(which just isn't gonna happen) publicly proclaiming he wants the job; how does it make sense to fire Pruitt now?
What would it take to get a plan A or plan B HC that might be able to pull off the rebuild? Like Mike Leach, Gundy, or Les Miles?
I'm not asking to vent and pontificate over what might have, could have, should have happened in a 2017 hypothetical during/after the Currie to Fulmer transition.
I'm in the present here and now. Would one of those type coaches even be willing to take the job knowing that 8/9 wins isn't enough if they don't win the SEC East within 5 years and they have a losing season?
Would they take the job knowing that we are severely lacking in leadership from our upperclassmen and most the ones producing will be gone next year. J. Jennings, Calloway, D. Taylor, Bituli, all gone.
Knowing that it is inevitable some of our blue chip underclassmen will transfer when the coach that recruited them leaves.

How much would we have to overpay to get a coach with Power5 experience to take over? And how do we know we're not bringing in a new stooge? I personaly don't think Gundy or Leach would better 8/9 wins and am skeptical of how Miles would perform.

No, just not losing to the Sun Belt and beating Group of 5 teams like BYU would not be enough. Within 5 years we'd push them out because 8/9 wins and 3rd in the East isn't enough........ The outrage that has led to our coaching carousel is because we are Tennessee and we expect to compete for championships. At best we're placated for a few years and then it's time for a coaching search if we're not in realistic contention.

I think Pruitt & his staff need at least 1more year and should receive it.
I have several reasons for thinking this but I'll keep it as brief as I can as this is a long post.

1. Chaney has a proven record of notable progress (significantly improving yards & ppg) his second year when he switches teams. Several regulars posted links to very informed and statistical breakdowns during the off-season.
2. Pruitt has never had to build an elite defense. He has inherited rosters full of 4/5 star 3rd-5th year players and proved he can excel with 3 different programs. He is 1 1/2 recruiting classes away from having that kind of talent and experience at UT.
3. I believe Fulmer & Pruitt knew we needed a complete rebuild to change our culture and that our fan base is more surprised by our struggles than they are.
With the amount of upper classmen we've had hit the portal, Sapp going Pro, players leaving the team after ridiculing us on social meeting, Ignont being left behind (unannounced until the last second) on an SEC roadtrip; ......

You can't convince me that we are not conscientiously tearing down our team to rebuild the culture.
I think Pruitt severely overestimated how fast he could push the culture change while trying to compensate for our OL&DL deficiencies & the decision to go with JG this season blew up in his face to create a perfect storm.
The dumb Alabama hillbilly has just learned enough to know he can't disparage our team and say "I'll get 25more players in here that are willing to play the right way".


I'll stop explaining why I don't think Pruitt should be fired before the end of 2020, my arguments won't change anybody's mind.

What I want to know is how the people that think it's unreasonable to give Pruitt more time are proposing anything more realistic than watching our proud program stoop to new lows and embarrassments with yet another coaching search?

A smart AD would have his guy already agreed to taking the job before the current guy was fired.

 

[onevol74]

I had posted this as a reply in another thread but I think I hit on a few points that are worth discussion in a thread by itself.

Phillip Fulmer - 2 losing seasons in 4 years.
It's been 80+ years since we stooped this low.
Fah'r Fulmer!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Lane Kiffin - 7-6 Meh... fly by night
He embarrassed us nationally, sabotaged recruiting, and left us with violations. Can't let that embarrassment happen again....

D. Dooley - New historic Lows.
Two losing seasons in 3 years(or was it all 3...?). Top that Fulmer! 20+ year win streaks against Vanderbilt & Kentucky snapped in back to back years.
Fah'r Dooley!!!! Can't let that happen again.

Butch Jones - Another Historic Low
Starts off decent and benefits from historic legacy recruiting classes. Quickly exposed as out of his element with a plethora of strategy & player relation disasters. Becomes condescending and patronizing towards media and our fan base.
Engineers our historic worst 8 loss season.
4-8, take that Fulmer & Dooley
Fah'r Butch. Can't let that happen again...

Jim Pruitt - New Historic Low/s?
5-5 and then wow does the other shoe drop hard for a 5-7 first season.
6 of those losses by +25 points.
Now possibly inline for yet another new historic low, a 1-3 win season.
Fah'r Pruitt!!??? Can't let this happen again..???



To everyone criticising the notion of giving Pruitt more time; How in the world does firing our 5th coach in this downward spiral after 2years, a shorter leash than his predecessors received, break the cycle of stooping to new historic lows?
We'll fire a NC winning Tennessee blue blood. It seems virtually no resume of Power5/SEC success can provide enough job security to sustain two losing seasons in a 4year period.

We tried unproven SEC royalty out of desperation after Kiffin ghosted us. Now we know better. Blood lines be daMned, a coach with little experience and a losing record below the Power 5 isn't an option.

A coach with a half way decent track record below the Power 5 will definitely be run out after sub .500 season if he maxes at 8/9 wins and loses to inferior talent.


Aside from some White Night savior like Urban Myer(which just isn't gonna happen) publicly proclaiming he wants the job; how does it make sense to fire Pruitt now?
What would it take to get a plan A or plan B HC that might be able to pull off the rebuild? Like Mike Leach, Gundy, or Les Miles?
I'm not asking to vent and pontificate over what might have, could have, should have happened in a 2017 hypothetical during/after the Currie to Fulmer transition.
I'm in the present here and now. Would one of those type coaches even be willing to take the job knowing that 8/9 wins isn't enough if they don't win the SEC East within 5 years and they have a losing season?
Would they take the job knowing that we are severely lacking in leadership from our upperclassmen and most the ones producing will be gone next year. J. Jennings, Calloway, D. Taylor, Bituli, all gone.
Knowing that it is inevitable some of our blue chip underclassmen will transfer when the coach that recruited them leaves.

How much would we have to overpay to get a coach with Power5 experience to take over? And how do we know we're not bringing in a new stooge? I personaly don't think Gundy or Leach would better 8/9 wins and am skeptical of how Miles would perform.

No, just not losing to the Sun Belt and beating Group of 5 teams like BYU would not be enough. Within 5 years we'd push them out because 8/9 wins and 3rd in the East isn't enough........ The outrage that has led to our coaching carousel is because we are Tennessee and we expect to compete for championships. At best we're placated for a few years and then it's time for a coaching search if we're not in realistic contention.

I think Pruitt & his staff need at least 1more year and should receive it.
I have several reasons for thinking this but I'll keep it as brief as I can as this is a long post.

1. Chaney has a proven record of notable progress (significantly improving yards & ppg) his second year when he switches teams. Several regulars posted links to very informed and statistical breakdowns during the off-season.
2. Pruitt has never had to build an elite defense. He has inherited rosters full of 4/5 star 3rd-5th year players and proved he can excel with 3 different programs. He is 1 1/2 recruiting classes away from having that kind of talent and experience at UT.
3. I believe Fulmer & Pruitt knew we needed a complete rebuild to change our culture and that our fan base is more surprised by our struggles than they are.
With the amount of upper classmen we've had hit the portal, Sapp going Pro, players leaving the team after ridiculing us on social meeting, Ignont being left behind (unannounced until the last second) on an SEC roadtrip; ......

You can't convince me that we are not conscientiously tearing down our team to rebuild the culture.
I think Pruitt severely overestimated how fast he could push the culture change while trying to compensate for our OL&DL deficiencies & the decision to go with JG this season blew up in his face to create a perfect storm.
The dumb Alabama hillbilly has just learned enough to know he can't disparage our team and say "I'll get 25more players in here that are willing to play the right way".


I'll stop explaining why I don't think Pruitt should be fired before the end of 2020, my arguments won't change anybody's mind.

What I want to know is how the people that think it's unreasonable to give Pruitt more time are proposing anything more realistic than watching our proud program stoop to new lows and embarrassments with yet another coaching search?

Thanks Phil, nice post. Now go and see what you can do to rehab your failing choice as a coach.
I agree that Pruitt will be, and shall, be here at least until the end of 2020. But to expect the fans to be patient with this mess is totally irrational. And by the way the problem is not the fans. They do not get to make any decisions with this program.

 

[VOLED]

I think we as fans need to lower our expectations for a while, and let Pruitt see what he can do with it for another year. At this point there aren't any good options.

Not sure they can be lowered any more. We are at the bottom.

 

[DaddyChad]

If the goal is to go cheap for another bargain bin hire, we need to give Pruitt 4 years..

If we are made aware through the agent grapevine that a proven winner is interested in TN (For example, Bob Stoops), then the plug should be pulled..

This. People think some are defending Pruitt. No I just want to stop this cycle. Let him roll for four years then hire an actual coach. We’re not paying him 10 million and hiring a decent head coach. Pay the contract down and pull the trigger on someone worth a damn.

 

[Dudleys87]

Yeah I don’t think anyone is expecting to be champions overnight, but is beating Georgia State and BYU and playing competitive with Florida or at least scoring 1 touchdown to high of an expectation for coach cornbread in his second year?

That’s the mind set of this fan base a lot of the time. Win a championship in the first 2 years or fire and hire someone who will.

It’s ridiculous that we couldn’t beat those teams but it is what it is now. Move on.

 

[onevol74]

Between GA State and BYU weeks, all we heard was how there were signs of improvement all over the field. Now that we've played a good but not great SEC team, everyone can see that the signs of improvement were just an illusion aided by a weak opponent. Now, it's all about staying the course, flipping the roster, changing the culture, all things that are very subjective and could leave this discussion unresolved for years as fans battle back and forth among themselves over perceived signs of improvement, regression, or stagnation. The only objective measuring sticks that we have are the win/loss record and recruiting. If a staff is not delivering wins and elite recruits, then it is incumbent on the head coach to advance a vision and convince the fan base that his plan will work. The easiest way a head coach can sell his vision is to be able to point to examples of where he's done it before. Saying 'give me five classes to get my guys and then we'll show you something' doesn't cut it. Anyone can say that and if you don't have a track record as a program builder it just comes off as 'leave me alone for 5 years and you'll see if I was worth keeping around.' We didn't hire a guy who's built programs. We didn't hire a guy with a vision. We hired a guy who has been around, but did not built, three very good football programs. Basically, we hired someone who knows what a championship football team should look like. That's not a lot to have faith in, especially when you start your second season the way Pruitt has. My position is that people with less experience in new positions should be on a shorter leash than people who have done it before. If three years was long enough to figure out Dooley, who had head coaching experience and went to a bowl in year one, then two years is enough to figure out Pruitt if the objective measurements of wins/losses and recruiting are clear.

I think you just hit in the problem. My criticism of Fulmer has been that he never built a program. That is a reason programs that were down never hired him. The program handed to him was an SEC championship program when he took over. Then he hired a guy in the same mode that has no knowledge or ability to rebuild a program on the bottom.
I do not place the blame for our state on Pruitt because at the time of his hire we needed a head coach with experience in rebuilding a program. That decision falls at Fulmer’s feet.
But at this point we have to give Pruitt to the end of 2020 to show what he can do and I hope that cornbread is successful somehow.
If things are sour at that time we need to consider hiring an AD who can make good decisions for this program.

 

[Dudleys87]

Georgia State..

I dont expect to be champions overnight. However i do expect to beat the cupcakes and mot get blown out by Vandy..my expectations are low but this HC cant seem to clear even the middle school hurdles.

Some of these players just don’t get it and they never will. They’re being pushed passed their limits and it shows. JG has been mentally destroyed and he won’t recover until he gets out of football in my opinion. That’s just one example

 

[BristolVolunteer]

Give Pruitt 4 years. Mike Leach lost to UCLA after blowing a 32 point lead in the 3rd quarter last night.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

That’s the mind set of this fan base a lot of the time. Win a championship in the first 2 years or fire and hire someone who will.

It’s ridiculous that we couldn’t beat those teams but it is what it is now. Move on.

So you’re ok with Pruitt going 1-11 in his second year?

What exactly have you seen on the field that makes you believe that Pruitt can rebuild this program?

 

[Dudleys87]

So you’re ok with Pruitt going 1-11 in his second year?

What exactly have you seen on the field that makes you believe that Pruitt can rebuild this program?

His players are playing at a different level.
The upperclassmen were over rated and star recruited rather than talent recruited
The line is getting better
The Defense is hindered by the lack of an offense
The fix is a competent QB
That happens and you’ll see a big change
We all saw yesterday just how bad it is at the QB position. When they’re all the same or worse you play the best bad guy. Unfortunately for us that’s JG

 

[Dudleys87]

So you’re ok with Pruitt going 1-11 in his second year?

What exactly have you seen on the field that makes you believe that Pruitt can rebuild this program?

Of course it’s not ok
It’s not what I want either
But I would rather Tennessee take its lumps and flip the roster then decide rather than continue the same cycle over and over. It hasn’t worked thus far so why should we believe it will this time?

Think about it: if Tennessee fires Pruitt that gives the fat cats control. They’ll hire another Bing Mcgoogle.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

His players are playing at a different level.
The upperclassmen were over rated and star recruited rather than talent recruited
The line is getting better
The Defense is hindered by the lack of an offense
The fix is a competent QB
That happens and you’ll see a big change
We all saw yesterday just how bad it is at the QB position. When they’re all the same or worse you play the best bad guy. Unfortunately for us that’s JG

I think it’s time to stop the excuses.

Every successful coach has shown improvement in their second year not regression.

 

[CampBlount]

...The fatal flaw is being cheap and trying to switch to an academic program. Basically admin wanted us to be Vandy so now we are Vandy.

You get what you pay for, and we haven’t invested in winning football in over a decade.

I was agreeing with you and "liking" your posts in this thread until this one. I am all in on the drive to improve UT's academic quality, while keeping it primarily an institution for Tennessee students. I was very happy to see UT move up 7 spots on the USNWR rankings of the nation's best public universities (to 44th).

That's unlike Alabama, whose ranking dropped to 72nd and whose enrollment is now more than half composed of out-of-state students as a result of its push for out-of-state tuition revenue.

As a UTK grad and Tennessee citizen, that's the ranking that matters to me and which will do more good for my state than any AP or Coach's Poll ranking. Most of this board will disagree, which matters not one iota to me.

I want to see the Vols win almost as much as anyone -- but I part company when you imply that UT's efforts to improve its academics are causing failure in football. And it's false: Georgia and Florida both rank far higher in the USNWR rankings than us and it doesn't seem to be hurting them.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

A smart AD would have his guy already agreed to taking the job before the current guy was fired.

I like the idea of this and I'm sure there is a back channel way to do it but it's tricky when you have a contract in place.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

That’s the mind set of this fan base a lot of the time. Win a championship in the first 2 years or fire and hire someone who will.

It’s ridiculous that we couldn’t beat those teams but it is what it is now. Move on.

I think that is a disingenuous statement. Nobody expects a championship within two years of today. Nobody expected it when Pruitt was hired. There was a reasonable expectation of incremental improvement this year. That's out the window. The only bullet they have left in the gun is to sit JG, play the young guys, hope to beat VU and/or KY, and hope that the fans blame the players who've been here working their asses off for three to five years for what happened early in the season.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

I have said previously that I don't think Pruitt will be fired for any reason this season, short of some kind of scandal. For that to happen, Fulmer would likely have to be fired as well, as I would expect him strongly advocate patience and giving Pruitt time. If I had been Pruitt (or any new coach coming in to the situation Pruitt came into) I would have made clear that I would need at least XX seasons to turn the ship around, and I believe (but of course don't know) that he got that commitment from the AD. I agree that the team seems to be playing worse every week. Some of that is on the head coach, and fans are right to criticize the coach for the seeming lack of preparation and discipline, and lack of fundamentally sound play.

Flame all you want, but he ain't going anywhere until, at the very earliest, the end of next season. And if the team improves its play as this season progresses (hard to see how they can't go up from here) and doesn't repeat this season's disasters in 2020, Pruitt will be back for 2021. JMHO.

 

[KeyVol14]

Because firing and hiring has worked so well...

Stop expecting to be champions over night.

So going 2-10 is no cause for concern smh

 

[Dudleys87]

So going 2-10 is no cause for concern smh

Didn’t say that at all