5 assistant hires that got a Vols head coach fired

[photovol]

Dooley was never ready for Big Time SEC football, Lousiania Tech was his ceiling.
Butch Jones was a Mid America type coach and his hype, slogans and skin deep humor were just that, skin deep.

 

[Dudleys87]

While Larry Scott was a poor hire for OC, I'm not particularly convinced that things would have been any different with Helfrich. Maybe we win that Florida game and go 5-7, but the overall result is still the same. Butch was the problem; not the OC!

Butch's terrible S&C program even made Bob Shoop look bad. And Shoop looked good at Vandy, Penn State, and now Miss State. UT was the outlier!

Larry Scott couldn’t put plays together. He was given the reigns once and completely screwed the pooch. He never should have even been considered but a yes man was needed

 

[Dudleys87]

Only reason he got the job was the timing of Kiffin's departure. Hamilton had to chose a replacement with no time to vet or interview enough coaches due to a fast approaching NSD. Yes, his bloodline made it a good PR move, but the political side was just saying, "You better fix this fast" to Hamilton. Plenty of supporters and donors didn't like the Kiffin hire when it was made, and liked it even less when he quit. He would have been better off swallowing his pride and trying to re-hire Fulmer, but I doubt he would have accepted it under Hamilton. Who knows?

If you want to figure out why Tennessee football has been in decline, it comes down to the loss of John Stucky as S&C coach. Hasn't been the same since then.

It’s a lot more than just SC.

If incompetent morons rule the roost you’ll never get off the ground

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

Larry Scott couldn’t put plays together. He was given the reigns once and completely screwed the pooch. He never should have even been considered but a yes man was needed

He did guide Miami to an 8-4 record the year before Botch hired him

 

[Dudleys87]

He did guide Miami to an 8-4 record the year before Botch hired him

Assistants either make you look really good or really bad. In that case he was the former. The proof was in the pudding. He couldn’t call plays and it’s my opinion he couldn’t coach TEs either

 

[wmcovol]

I dont understand Marmie on the list. He was a good DC at Tennessee. Fulmer kept him from Majors staff and while the defense was never great, he did about as good as he could with the talent that was there then.

I guess you've gotta have 5? No assistant cost Majors to get fired. Johnny did that to himself.

 

[TNnative]

It’s a lot more than just SC.

If incompetent morons rule the roost you’ll never get off the ground

I agree to a point but you are just referring to coaches. I am referring to the penny pinching administrators who wouldn't overhaul the weight room, and put the proper weight room set up in ATC. Look at Tennessee's overall record after Stucky. If you can't see the decline from that point up until Fitzgerald came in. get your eyes checked. S&C is everything, especially in the SEC.

 

[Dudleys87]

I agree to a point but you are just referring to coaches. I am referring to the penny pinching administrators who wouldn't overhaul the weight room, and put the proper weight room set up in ATC. Look at Tennessee's overall record after Stucky. If you can't see the decline from that point up until Fitzgerald came in. get your eyes checked. S&C is everything, especially in the SEC.

I don’t disagree I’ve stated before that Rock is the worst hire Tennessee has ever made. Dooley, Butch, Hamilton included

 

[Boca Vol]

The issue is we hired such crappy/cheap HCs with Butch and Dooley, no decent coordinators were willing to join UT by the end for Dooley/Butch. The only way to get coordinators is to overpay position coaches that were overmatched...

Are you serious? Look at Butch's staff in 2017. And don't forget, Shoop coming to UT was universally seen as a huge win for UT in 2016. Butch could've made a bigger hire with the OC but to say no one would come to UT is just wrong. Brady Hoke joining the staff was another high-profile coach on the staff.

Dooley's OC was Jim Cheney...you know the guy who is back at UT. His DC hire would've been Steele, IMO, hadn't Clemson giving up 70 points in the Orange Bowl to W. VA. Using a single game to determine whether a guy can play/coach, etc. is wrong, IMO.

 

[VOL_Lyfe]

Hasn't Trooper Taylor sort of vanished from the collective radar screen? I'm not buying that he would have been a slam-dunk hire in '08.

 

[butchna]

If Dooley hires steele and he has an average defense then Dooley win 10 maybe 11 games in 2012. Sal Sunseri sunk his ship.

Would have delayed the inevitable if so.

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

Would have delayed the inevitable if so.

Don't you miss this?

 

[butchna]

Don't you miss this?

Like that skin tag I had removed when I was in the AF.

 

[VOLfrombama]

Fulmer giving Sanders the OC job and sticking with him when it was obvious to the rest of the world he was over his head was worse than his Clawson debacle.

Exactly. Add in the infamous 3rd and Chavis Mustang Poop Scheme, and there's your real formula for why he was fired. The majority of the fanbase was sick of that crap by 2005, WAAAAY before the Clawfense crapped the bed.

Cutcliffe bought Fulmer more time. Dave Clawsen was just a convenient scapegoat.

 

[DWright39]

How many games do you think Tennessee would have won if Lame Kiffin had been head football coach 2010-2012 instead of Dooley?

I think they would have won a lot more but I also think we would’ve wound up in serious NCAA trouble

 

[TennesseeTarheel]

 

[lukeneyland]

I disagree. Dooley and Butch were in over their heads no matter who the assistants were. Josh Dobbs just obscured that for part of 2015...

Butch was for certain. Dooley with a John Chavis type leading the defense probably would have worked out reasonably well. I don't think Dooley is a football idiot, he's done well since he's left us

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

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[Alex10]

Ac

The biggest question mark was Dooley imo.

Literally, he had a losing LA Tech the season prior. Only reason he got the job was his coaching bloodline and I'm sure some politics. Butch was more justified because he seemed to be a good program builder/promoter. The two stops before UT he showed that each team improved more each year and we kind of saw that here. Unfortunately, we didnt analyze that most of that success should be contributed to Brian Kelly and he was a better salesman than coach.

I think a lot of people instantly surmised that his success was always following Kelly.. it’s just at the time everyone with orange tinted glasses refused to listen and as always immediately put down and attacked those posters. But it was brought up plenty.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Weren’t we going to get Ryan Mallet if we hired (GASP) Mike DeBord from Michigan after they hired RichRod? Instead we got Clawsen and Crompton starting. No offense to J Crompton, but Mallett was much, much better and would’ve been a game changer.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Whoever took over after Dave Lawson was fired should be on that list somewhere.

 

[05_never_again]

The offense's bad performance in 2008 was just the proximate cause of Phil's firing. The program had been slipping ever since 2001 because Richt, Urban, and Saban among others started eating Phil's lunch on the recruiting trail. You don't get fired because of one bad OC hire.

Phil's decline was a long, slow slip into mediocrity, not something that happened overnight.

 

[OldandStillaVol]

View attachment 208649

What a surprising turn of events!!! ........... (for this thread)

 

[DaddyChad]

I disagree. Dooley and Butch were in over their heads no matter who the assistants were. Josh Dobbs just obscured that for part of 2015...

Debord was a much better coordinator than he gets credit for. Anyone that could make Butch listen and get the most out of that system isn’t terrible. Dobbs no doubt was awesome as well.

 

[sjt18]

Fulmer did himself in. Clawson wasn't the one who slipped badly in recruiting or program discipline.