Tennessee Vols Basketball Recruiting

[bleedingTNorange]

I don't disagree. It doesn't matter as long as they are winning. But I think you would agree over the last 2-3 years basketball in the SEC has gotten a huge face lift in regards to coaches and players. I'm extremely skeptical that he can continue building the roster in the way he has over the last four years. But I'm going to be completely behind Barnes until he fails to consistently make the tournament. That should be the expectation year in and year out.

It has definitely improved, and in that 2 year span Tennessee has had the best stretch in program history, that’s pretty impressive. People said he couldn’t win with that strategy and yet with the league at an all time level he won more in 2 years than any other Tennessee coach has, let that sink in...

I also think acting as though recruiting hasn’t improved since those first couple classes is just flat out wrong. I don’t think he signed a single 150 guy in the first couple classes, yet in recent classes he’s signed James, Plavsic, ORN, Burns and Bailey who are all Top 150 or better...so I don’t really agree with those saying he’s still building the roster “the same way”.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Darrington and Phillips would’ve graduated this past year so I’m not sure how they would’ve helped this upcoming years team?

Had both been on the team recruiting for 2018 & 2019 as well as 2020 would have likely been impacted. But I for some reason thought Darrington was a Freshman...so I goofed that up.

 

[Vols8086]

They were doing the same the last few years, look at Avery Johnson’s recruiting at Alabama, he’s now unemployed, so what did those star rankings do for him?

Coaches are judged by their success, not their recruiting rankings, if they can win without landing top classes year in and year out what does it matter?

The problem lies in the expectation level of the program now. Similar thing happened to him at Texas. You start having success and you naturally want to take it to the next level. Combine that with his new salary, and where it ranks in the college bball landscape, fans want to build off of last year. Fair or unfair, realistic or not, that's the reality of the situation.

What isn't really being conveyed well by the "Barnes must recruit better" crowd is the why. He is 64 years old, coached over 1000 games over 30 years. Do we really expect him to become a much better coach at this stage of his career? Can he get better in some aspects? Of course he can, but to expect some massive spike in coaching ability at this stage of his career is foolish. The most logical and obvious area then for him to take this program to another level would be recruiting. He is a very good coach and has shown he can develop guys once they reach the college level. Now you hope he can get guys with higher ceilings to develop, thus hopefully giving your program a higher ceiling.

If he continues to find and develop under the radar guys, nobody should have an issue. I have no idea what the odds are, but I'll take the under on the ability of Barnes or any coaching staff finding Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield level 3 stars year in and year out. Not because Barnes and company can't scout properly, but moreso Grant and Admiral are exceptions and not the norm.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Had both been on the team recruiting for 2018 & 2019 as well as 2020 would have likely been impacted. But I for some reason thought Darrington was a Freshman...so I goofed that up.

I’m not sure what you mean?

We only added Burns in 2018, and then Pember, Gaines and James for fall of 2019...I’m not sure what Parker, Phillips and Darrington have to do with that.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I’m not sure what you mean?

We only added Burns in 2018, and then Pember, Gaines and James for fall of 2019...I’m not sure what Parker, Phillips and Darrington have to do with that.

It's 3 spots that vacated prior to their graduation (naturally) from the university. Had they not left it would have changed the related recruiting classes by sheer number of available scholarships if nothing else. Just saying team attrition was altered by the players that left via transfer.

Phillips still baffles me his sophomore season he was 5th on the team in MPG and had played in more games than Mostella. It's all speculation but had Phillips stayed Bone may not have left this off season, as he would have likely not had quite as many minutes and been as productive. Who knows though. I'm not trying to start a big argument or anything BTO, please don't take it as such.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

The problem lies in the expectation level of the program now. Similar thing happened to him at Texas. You start having success and you naturally want to take it to the next level. Combine that with his new salary, and where it ranks in the college bball landscape, fans want to build off of last year. Fair or unfair, realistic or not, that's the reality of the situation.

What isn't really being conveyed well by the "Barnes must recruit better" crowd is the why. He is 64 years old, coached over 1000 games over 30 years. Do we really expect him to become a much better coach at this stage of his career? Can he get better in some aspects? Of course he can, but to expect some massive spike in coaching ability at this stage of his career is foolish. The most logical and obvious area then for him to take this program to another level would be recruiting. He is a very good coach and has shown he can develop guys once they reach the college level. Now you hope he can get guys with higher ceilings to develop, thus hopefully giving your program a higher ceiling.

If he continues to find and develop under the radar guys, nobody should have an issue. I have no idea what the odds are, but I'll take the under on the ability of Barnes or any coaching staff finding Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield level 3 stars year in and year out. Not because Barnes and company can't scout properly, but moreso Grant and Admiral are exceptions and not the norm.

But that’s my point, I don’t see him looking solely for those guys now in the recruiting classes to headline each class, do you?

2017 had Yves Pons, and now Victor Bailey
2018 had DJ Burns and now Uros Plavsic
2019 had Josiah James and Olivier Robinson-Nkahmoua

So this perception that he is still only pursuing guys unranked or ranked by one site in the 175+ region isn’t exactly painting the whole picture or being truthful.

 

[walkenvol]

They were doing the same the last few years, look at Avery Johnson’s recruiting at Alabama, he’s now unemployed, so what did those star rankings do for him?

Coaches are judged by their success, not their recruiting rankings, if they can win without landing top classes year in and year out what does it matter?

It most likely proves coaches like CRB are far superior in predicting college basketball success for high school players than the guys at rivals or 247. CRB appeared to like the classes he signed much more than the internet rankers and the fans who put so much faith in what the rankers tell them.

Maybe you guys bitching about UT’s class rankings need to put more faith in the evaluation talent of the guy being paid the $5mil vs the guys asking for $10 a month to share their opinions?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

It's 3 spots that vacated prior to their graduation (naturally) from the university. Had they not left it would have changed the related recruiting classes by sheer number of available scholarships if nothing else. Just saying team attrition was altered by the players that left via transfer.

Phillips still baffles me his sophomore season he was 5th on the team in MPG and had played in more games than Mostella. It's all speculation but had Phillips stayed Bone may not have left this off season, as he would have likely not had quite as many minutes and been as productive. Who knows though. I'm not trying to start a big argument or anything BTO, please don't take it as such.

I’m not, just not sure I understood what you were saying...yes they created open scholarships, but we filled those scholarships, Barnes chose to fill them most with wings and forwards, he could’ve added guards but opted not to.

It had sounded like you were saying those 3 guys caused us to be thin at the guard spot this upcoming year, I was just stating that 2/3 wouldn’t be here and that I also don’t really think we are as thin at guard as many are saying.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I’m not, just not sure I understood what you were saying...yes they created open scholarships, but we filled those scholarships, Barnes chose to fill them most with wings and forwards, he could’ve added guards but opted not to.

It had sounded like you were saying those 3 guys caused us to be thin at the guard spot this upcoming year, I was just stating that 2/3 wouldn’t be here and that I also don’t really think we are as thin at guard as many are saying.

I don't think we're thing at guard either, and I'm in more of a "wait and see" about next season. We could become thin fast if James, Bowden, Turner, Jalen, Pons all decide to leave.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I don't think we're thing at guard either, and I'm in more of a "wait and see" about next season. We could become thin fast if James, Bowden, Turner, Jalen, Pons all decide to leave.

Well sure, we could also be thin at post if plavisic, Burns, Kent and Fulk all decided to leave.

 

[Vols8086]

But that’s my point, I don’t see him looking solely for those guys now in the recruiting classes to headline each class, do you?

2017 had Yves Pons, and now Victor Bailey
2018 had DJ Burns and now Uros Plavsic
2019 had Josiah James and Olivier Robinson-Nkahmoua

So this perception that he is still only pursuing guys unranked or ranked by one site in the 175+ region isn’t exactly painting the whole picture or being truthful.

I think he is now swimming in a bigger pond for sure, but he still has to land those guys. I don't think that is fair to give him credit for Bailey and Plavsic in the 2017 and 2018 recruiting classes. He got those guys to transfer in, but that is totally different than signing the guy to that original recruiting class.

The point is though that even the headliners of the 2017 and 2018 classes were seen as projects to a degree. Pons was considered a better athlete than basketball player at the time (and probably still is, but that is another conversation) and Burns needed to lose some baby fat. I think Burns will be a good player though. Josiah should be instant impact but even ORN is viewed more as a long term prospect. Plenty of upside, but needs some time.

I feel like recruiting is trending in the right direction, but I don't fault anybody for questioning it at this point. I think most would agree that Barnes has exceeded the on court expectations thus far, but that his recruiting to this point has been below the original expectations. 2019 and beyond though can easily re-write that recruiting narrative.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I think he is now swimming in a bigger pond for sure, but he still has to land those guys. I don't think that is fair to give him credit for Bailey and Plavsic in the 2017 and 2018 recruiting classes. He got those guys to transfer in, but that is totally different than signing the guy to that original recruiting class.

The point is though that even the headliners of the 2017 and 2018 classes were seen as projects to a degree. Pons was considered a better athlete than basketball player at the time (and probably still is, but that is another conversation) and Burns needed to lose some baby fat. I think Burns will be a good player though. Josiah should be instant impact but even ORN is viewed more as a long term prospect. Plenty of upside, but needs some time.

I feel like recruiting is trending in the right direction, but I don't fault anybody for questioning it at this point. I think most would agree that Barnes has exceeded the on court expectations thus far, but that his recruiting to this point has been below the original expectations. 2019 and beyond though can easily re-write that recruiting narrative.

And if he lands 3 Top 10 classes in a row but only averages 20 wins a year? He recruited very well at Texas but yet didn’t win near as much as he did early on, we all see how that ended. Maybe I’m in the minority but if he m continues to win and make the NCAAT every year I have a really hard time questioning his recruiting strategies or claiming he needs to “change the narrative”. The only narrative I am concerned with is winning, and right now he’s doing a good job at that.

 

[i2amavol]

It most likely proves coaches like CRB are far superior in predicting college basketball success for high school players than the guys at rivals or 247. CRB appeared to like the classes he signed much more than the internet rankers and the fans who put so much faith in what the rankers tell them.

Maybe you guys bitching about UT’s class rankings need to put more faith in the evaluation talent of the guy being paid the $5mil vs the guys asking for $10 a month to share their opinions?

I think Barnes trusts his ability to CREATE future success, moreso than predict it.

 

[calban]

And if he lands 3 Top 10 classes in a row but only averages 20 wins a year? He recruited very well at Texas but yet didn’t win near as much as he did early on, we all see how that ended. Maybe I’m in the minority but if he m continues to win and make the NCAAT every year I have a really hard time questioning his recruiting strategies or claiming he needs to “change the narrative”. The only narrative I am concerned with is winning, and right now he’s doing a good job at that.

The biggest knock on Barnes by his Texas fans was that when he seemed to have the tools for a final 4 run or better his teams flopped.
They all agree from what I've read that he usually over achieved when the chips were down and his best coaching came in situations like we're faced with this season. 3 key starters gone and filling gaps with untested or youth.
Barnes will continue to be Barnes and he'll recruit to a type regardless of star rankings. He'll probably continue to flop when we're expecting to win it all, but just being in that position is better than what most of us have experienced as fans in our lifetimes. I'm still all in. GBO
A little history:
Despite losing four starters from the 1999-2000 squad, including Mihm a year early to the NBA, Barnes did one of his better coaching jobs during his third year in Austin. He molded four true freshmen who all played significant minutes and a total of eight newcomers into a team that posted a 25-9 record (12-4 Big 12, tied for second), advanced to the NCAA Tournament and finished the year ranked No. 18 in the final AP poll. The ranking marked the first time in school history that the Horns appeared in the final AP poll in back-to-back seasons.

 

[cncchris33]

I'm admittedly satisfied with the on court results that we've enjoyed over the past few seasons. But I've also been critical and still believe Barnes has done an average job recruiting. I'm of the belief the way he constructed those teams isn't something he can continue doing to build off the success they've had. Most of the teams in the SEC are landing 5 star recruits and top 100 players now. That should be the expectation here as well regardless.

And I think you are starting to see that after the building of the foundation.

I’m going to go out on a limb and assume we land Keon Johnson and keep Corey Walker. If that is all we add in that class, which is very conservative, that will leave us with K. Johnson, C .Walker, J. James, V. Bailey, U. Plavsic, and O. Nkamhoua entering 2020-21. All seven guys were 4* or 5* players. That is over half of our roster.

That is a sign that Barnes is recruiting a higher caliber player that still will assimilate into his system. So far, we have seen Barnes recruit high character, team-first players. As you get into the top-150 players, the pool of players who fit that profile shrinks considerably. I think that with that in mind, we are definitely seeing an upward trend.

 

[Vols8086]

And if he lands 3 Top 10 classes in a row but only averages 20 wins a year? He recruited very well at Texas but yet didn’t win near as much as he did early on, we all see how that ended. Maybe I’m in the minority but if he m continues to win and make the NCAAT every year I have a really hard time questioning his recruiting strategies or claiming he needs to “change the narrative”. The only narrative I am concerned with is winning, and right now he’s doing a good job at that.

The only narrative anybody is concerned with is winning. The question is can Barnes continue to find lower ranked guys that develop like Admiral and Grant did and build off the success of last season? That's asking an awful lot. You see some of these older teams without big time recruits go on a run for a year or two and then fade back to the pack. Butler, Wichita State, South Carolina with their deep run a season or two ago, Wisconsin a few years ago, etc.

Sometimes you will have the stars align for you and it all comes together at the same time. More often than not though it's like a solar eclipse: cool while it happens but doesn't last very long. Which goes back to my original point of the expectations now of the program with last year and the new contract. Just making the tournament isn't going to be good enough for some folks. These newfound expectations are probably unrealistic given our less than rich basketball history, but that won't stop them from yelling.

 

[Roustabout]

Great to hear, so instead of being doom and gloom and acting like this program is destined for failure in the coming 2 years why not wait and see what actually happens on the court?

So we should all stop commenting?
I have an idea, how about you stop telling me what I should do. Worry about yo self.
I’m going to express concern where and when I have it. Again, use the ignore feature and you won’t have to see it. However, I think you get more pleasure on complaining about other posters.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

So we should all stop commenting?
I have an idea, how about you stop telling me what I should do. Worry about yo self.
I’m going to express concern where and when I have it. Again, use the ignore feature and you won’t have to see it. However, I think you get more pleasure on complaining about other posters.

Keep looking like a fool and I’ll continue to call you on it, sounds good to me

 

[bleedingTNorange]

The only narrative anybody is concerned with is winning. The question is can Barnes continue to find lower ranked guys that develop like Admiral and Grant did and build off the success of last season? That's asking an awful lot. You see some of these older teams without big time recruits go on a run for a year or two and then fade back to the pack. Butler, Wichita State, South Carolina with their deep run a season or two ago, Wisconsin a few years ago, etc.

Sometimes you will have the stars align for you and it all comes together at the same time. More often than not though it's like a solar eclipse: cool while it happens but doesn't last very long. Which goes back to my original point of the expectations now of the program with last year and the new contract. Just making the tournament isn't going to be good enough for some folks. These newfound expectations are probably unrealistic given our less than rich basketball history, but that won't stop them from yelling.

That’s my point, people are saying this but it’s not true...he isn’t only going for lower ranked guys, the most recent classes are a trend upwards in recruiting. He’s not taking 5 guys unranked and us all hoping they turn out to be the next Schofield or Williams, he’s taking a 4 star in ORN and we’re hoping he’s that. He’s taking a 5* in Josiah James and we are hoping he’s as good as Bone. He’s taking a 5* in Corey Walker and we are hoping he produces like Admiral. He’s taking Top 150 Uros Plavsic and hoping he’s like Alexander. He’s taking Top 100 Victor Bailey and we are hoping he’s similar to Bowden.

You seem to be suggesting that recruiting is the same as it was 3-4 years ago which led to the team we saw of Bone/Turner/Schofield/Williams/Alexander etc. but that’s not the case at all, recent classes have included much higher profile guys.

 

[JelloPuddinPup]

put more faith in the evaluation talent of the guy being paid the $5mil vs the guys asking for $10 a month to share their opinions?

Underrated line right there.

 

[Roustabout]

Keep looking like a fool and I’ll continue to call you on it, sounds good to me

Thanks for verifying!

 

[RyanWalkerPGH]

 

[AngryButchJones]

But UT doesn't have any scholarship spots left.

Interesting...

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Hmmm...wonder how they’d make that work?

 

[BruinVol]

Betting the trying is old news