Barnes should have left for UCLA

#76
#76
Good deal that Barnes stayed, UCLA he would have been a fish out of water. Makes much more sense for him to be here. GBO!!!!
 
#77
#77
Thank goodness. Barnes just leveraged fat stacks of cash to coach at a non-basketball school for basically as long as he wants the job.

Going to UCLA would have meant REAL pressure to win (not VolNation pressure). His down-home meek style wouldn't have played well in LA.

He's now guaranteed to remain the second highest paid SEC coach and doesn't have near the pressure to win that Cal has at Kentucky. The guy is a brilliant businessman,

Now he can win 25 games and bow out in the sweet16 for the rest of his career and be a GOD to UT fans.

Anyone who thinks this isn't a destination job is kidding themselves.
 
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#78
#78
Okay, but you didn’t answer the question. Why are they having such a hard time attracting a good coach? And why have they had so many poor coaches over the past 20-30 years?

Howland peaked early, got complacent, and let players run themselves. They have had good runs over the past twenty years but not sustained because coaches either get good and then put it on cruise control. They also have gone after younger coaches on spectrum.

Now if Barnes went there, he’s there for 6 years at most. Given his job at Tennessee, there is zero reason to think he wouldn’t crush it at UCLA given better talent, easier competition, and his record of development.

UCLA has been after flashy names instead of solid coaches. That’s the big reason they can’t sustain success there
 
#79
#79
They won't have to wait long. Barnes has a 30+ year track record filled with missed opportunities. This year, he took one of the most talented TN teams in school history and came away with nothing to show for it.
This is the most idiotic post I have probably ever seen in the BBF. There were ZERO 4 or 5 star recruits on this team. I would say he took a roster with low talent and pushed them beyond their potential. Had it not been for a bad call and a bad half at the FT line I believe we would have seen AU again in the FF. Barnes did not miss foulshots. In fact, you can give him credit for a team that shot lights out from the line if you want due to practice requirements, but at the end of the day, he didn't shoot them in the tourney. He also didnt make a crap call at the end of the game.
 
#81
#81
Every time I jump back on this site to see how things are going, it's miserable posts like this that remind me why I tens to stay away. We just retained the National Coach of the Year. Why on Earth can you not just be happy about that?
Because this situation seems like damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yes, letting Rick walk means hitting the reset button and another coaching search. Part of you wants to avoid that, at almost any cost. We did avoid that, so in that sense retaining him is a huge plus.

However, I think it is fair to say that Tennessee's basketball expectations are higher now. Making the tournament every year and being decent in SEC play used to be good enough here. Now it isn't. You need to make the tournament every year and at least win a game or so, and in years perceived as "up years" you need to make a deep tournament run.

It's unpopular to point out around here (well, except for yesterday, when everyone thought he was leaving), but deep tournament runs with Barnes are the exception, not the rule. Barnes made it beyond the Sweet Sixteen just 3 times in 17 years at Texas. He failed to make it through the first weekend 11 times. That's almost two-thirds of the time. I'm sorry, but he just isn't a great tournament coach. I think it's also worth pointing out that Barnes never, in 17 years at Texas, won a Big 12 Tournament title. He won 3 regular season titles, but never the tournament (sound familiar)? Keep in mind that Barnes was doing this at Texas with highly-rated talent, which he hasn't had at Tennessee so far.

It's like he's good over a longer period of time because his teams are disciplined, well-coached, etc., but in a higher pressure environment with a sense of urgency, he wins just about as often as he loses.

To sum it up, there is a good chance that in 2-3 years, after a couple more tournament flameouts, people are seriously complaining about his contract and want him fired. I hope it doesn't happen, but I can see it coming plain as day. "We're paying him $5m+ for our ceiling to be the Sweet Sixteen?" The thing is, if we want to lower our expectations just modestly (we don't), Barnes will make us very happy.
 
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#82
#82
Howland peaked early, got complacent, and let players run themselves. They have had good runs over the past twenty years but not sustained because coaches either get good and then put it on cruise control. They also have gone after younger coaches on spectrum.

Now if Barnes went there, he’s there for 6 years at most. Given his job at Tennessee, there is zero reason to think he wouldn’t crush it at UCLA given better talent, easier competition, and his record of development.

UCLA has been after flashy names instead of solid coaches. That’s the big reason they can’t sustain success there
Good answer. It just seems odd to me that a program that is as good as UCLA was, and some would still have me believe they are, would struggle this mightily to find even a top-20 coach. Maybe they have continual AD dysfunction, maybe they aren’t willing to spend the money they would have us believe they would, or maybe it just isn’t that attractive.

I get all the reasons it should be, but at some point, you have to wonder why there is so much turmoil and strife in finding a competent coach and success in Westwood. Something doesn’t add up. And that isn’t to suggest they can’t be great again, but like you said, it will take the right guy. Available talent isn’t the problem. It is keeping that talent in SoCal and having the right coach who will invest in the program.

I think they have a few things working against them; they play in an awful conference, they play on the west coast in an east coast dominated sport, and they have such a burden of a legacy to uphold.
 
#83
#83
This is the most idiotic post I have probably ever seen in the BBF. There were ZERO 4 or 5 star recruits on this team. I would say he took a roster with low talent and pushed them beyond their potential. Had it not been for a bad call and a bad half at the FT line I believe we would have seen AU again in the FF. Barnes did not miss foulshots. In fact, you can give him credit for a team that shot lights out from the line if you want due to practice requirements, but at the end of the day, he didn't shoot them in the tourney. He also didnt make a crap call at the end of the game.


Yeah but the team got REAL sloppy and lost focus when it mattered the most (coaching). Low level talent or not, they were playing very well for most of the season and then they weren't (coaching). Which by the way many have rightfully pointed out is typical Barnes. In fact, this quote is straight off Barnes own wikipedia page:

"However, Barnes has won only one post-season conference tourney championship (Providence, 1994 Big East) in his 30 years as a collegiate head coach. He has an overall record of 22–23 (.489) in the NCAA tournament (19-16 at Texas). In nine of his seventeen years at Texas (16 NCAA Tournament appearances), the Longhorns went on to lose to a lower seed in the NCAA Tournament. He was fired in 2015 after Texas failed to advance to the Sweet 16 for the seventh straight season.[2] "

In fact, I believe Barnes just had the best season record of his entire career, yet not a regular season champion, SEC tourney champion, or final four team and in a year when Kentucky wasn't dominant (UK didn't win any of those things either) so this was UTs year to dominate everything.


Not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to point out that its not an idiotic post AT ALL.
 
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#84
#84
Not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to point out that its not an idiotic post AT ALL.
Barnes is just a hard guy to say critical things about. His teams are consistently pretty good, almost always at least making the tournament, and he seems like a great person on top of that. He's at a school that, at least in the past, didn't have overly high basketball expectations. I would consider myself to still have relatively modest expectations of the basketball program, but I think I'm becoming the minority.

Bottom line, if Tennessee fancies itself to be a school with higher basketball expectations (not saying it should or it shouldn't, just that it appears to be heading in that direction), I think fans should be aware of Barnes's tournament history. What I'm noticing with our fanbase with respect to Barnes is that age-old human tendency to set yourself up for disappointment, particularly when you shouldn't even be disappointed.
 
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#85
#85
Thank goodness. Barnes just leveraged fat stacks of cash to coach at a non-basketball school for basically as long as he wants the job.

Going to UCLA would have meant REAL pressure to win (not VolNation pressure). His down-home meek style wouldn't have played well in LA.

He's now guaranteed to remain the second highest paid SEC coach and doesn't have near the pressure to win that Cal has at Kentucky. The guy is a brilliant businessman,

Now he can win 25 games and bow out in the sweet16 for the rest of his career and be a GOD to UT fans.

Anyone who thinks this isn't a destination job is kidding themselves.
The bolded part is where I disagree. If the most he ever does at Tennessee is bow out in the Sweet Sixteen, he won't be a god to UT fans. That would have made him a god 20 years ago, but likely not now.
 
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#86
#86
Barnes is just a hard guy to say critical things about. His teams are consistently pretty good, almost always at least making the tournament, and he seems like a great person on top of that. He's at a school that, at least in the past, didn't have overly high basketball expectations. I would consider myself to still have relatively modest expectations of the basketball program, but I think I'm becoming the minority.

Bottom line, if Tennessee fancies itself to be a school with higher basketball expectations (not saying it should or it shouldn't, just that it appears to be heading in that direction), I think fans should be aware of Barnes's tournament history. What I'm noticing with our fanbase with respect to Barnes is that age-old human tendency to set yourself up for disappointment, particularly when you shouldn't even be disappointed.

Yep, agree completely and Tennessee fans may "elevate" their expectations a bit, but it will never be like at Kentucky or UCLA in terms of expectations to win at basketball. That's why Barnes just pulled off the biggest coupe in college athletics. He became one of the highest paid coaches at a school that aside for a smattering of decent years has NEVER fielded a dominant program and has NEVER been a true basketball school.

I mean seriously, good for Rick Barnes. Not being sarcastic at all. He just put himself in a position many coaches would KILL to be in. High high pay and not any real expectations.

People may be upset at the loss in the sweet 16 right now, but as soon as the Orange and White game happens people will literally forget who Rick Barnes is until next January...LOL I'm right? You know I'm right about that!

This is a fanbase that would literally sacrifice everything to be good at football again and this little rest stop where we had a good year at basketball is just a happy distraction from the pain we all feel over our football program the last decade.
 
#87
#87
Yeah but the team got REAL sloppy and lost focus when it mattered the most (coaching). Low level talent or not, they were playing very well for most of the season and then they weren't (coaching). Which by the way many have rightfully pointed out is typical Barnes. In fact, this quote is straight off Barnes own wikipedia page:

"However, Barnes has won only one post-season conference tourney championship (Providence, 1994 Big East) in his 30 years as a collegiate head coach. He has an overall record of 22–23 (.489) in the NCAA tournament (19-16 at Texas). In nine of his seventeen years at Texas (16 NCAA Tournament appearances), the Longhorns went on to lose to a lower seed in the NCAA Tournament. He was fired in 2015 after Texas failed to advance to the Sweet 16 for the seventh straight season.[2] "

In fact, I believe Barnes just had the best season record of his entire career, yet not a regular season champion, SEC tourney champion, or final four team and in a year when Kentucky wasn't dominant (UK didn't win any of those things either) so this was UTs year to dominate everything.


Not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to point out that its not an idiotic post AT ALL.
It is idiotic stating that this is the most talented team ever at UT. If it is, Barnes created that. Not trying to be rude, but that is from the post I was quoting. Mental letdown for one half.... you could even say by Admiral and a crap call took us out. 3 points in the first half by him and we aren’t having this conversation. Admiral shouldn’t have needed Barnes to motivate him in that game. In fact none of them should have needed it.
 
#89
#89
I don't think Barnes runs in to trouble living up to the fan base expectations vs. salary. Where I do think he runs in to some problems....most of the fan base bleed orange, live, and breath it. We expect the same from our coaches. I think he should hold a presser telling us what was going on in his mind. Does he have to? No! Should he....YES! I'll be the first to admit, I'm not holding him in the highest regard today, it's nothing to do with coaching, it's him personally. Him leaving would surely put the nail in the coffin with both Bone and Williams. Not to mention the recruits that have verbally committed. Outside looking in...he was willing to screw TN...for what? Money!
 
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#90
#90
People may be upset at the loss in the sweet 16 right now, but as soon as the Orange and White game happens people will literally forget who Rick Barnes is until next January...LOL I'm right? You know I'm right about that!

This is a fanbase that would literally sacrifice everything to be good at football again and this little rest stop where we had a good year at basketball is just a happy distraction from the pain we all feel over our football program the last decade.
I do agree that the best thing that can happen to Barnes is for Pruitt to get football rolling. I really do think it would take some pressure off of him. For a while now I've been a big believer that increased basketball expectations are a function of two things: 1) football sucking and 2) the Pearl years. #1 being a bigger factor than #2.

Football really started to fall off right around the time Pearl started bringing all this energy to the basketball program. Today, football still stinks, so in the meantime we want to expect something from basketball.
 
#91
#91
Yep, agree completely and Tennessee fans may "elevate" their expectations a bit, but it will never be like at Kentucky or UCLA in terms of expectations to win at basketball. That's why Barnes just pulled off the biggest coupe in college athletics. He became one of the highest paid coaches at a school that aside for a smattering of decent years has NEVER fielded a dominant program and has NEVER been a true basketball school.

I mean seriously, good for Rick Barnes. Not being sarcastic at all. He just put himself in a position many coaches would KILL to be in. High high pay and not any real expectations.

People may be upset at the loss in the sweet 16 right now, but as soon as the Orange and White game happens people will literally forget who Rick Barnes is until next January...LOL I'm right? You know I'm right about that!

I don't think you are right. Of course Barnes will have expectations. He will be expected to make the NCAAT year in and year out---something UT has never done. Reasonable expectations of winning in the NCAAT will only come after expectations of reaching the NCAAT become established. You have to walk before you run and, as you (sort of) said, "aside [from] a smattering of decent years [the Vols have] NEVER fielded a dominant program and [UT] has NEVER been a true basketball school. I assume Barnes is here to move UT toward being a true basketball school.

The crucial hire now will be Barnes' successor, if he meets his expectations.
 
#92
#92
Let's break the bank for Sweet 16 flameouts. Only UT.

How do you figure? 140mil/yr athletic budget, top 10 nationally.

Paying more for quality coaches (say, Barnes) is a better recipe than paying a huge buyout for a mediocre coach (where to begin...Botch, Dools, Buzz etc ad nauseum)
 
#93
#93
I don't think Barnes runs in to trouble living up to the fan base expectations vs. salary. Where I do think he runs in to some problems....most of the fan base bleed orange, live, and breath it. We expect the same from our coaches. I think he should hold a presser telling us what was going on in his mind. Does he have to? No! Should he....YES! I'll be the first to admit, I'm not holding him in the highest regard today, it's nothing to do with coaching, it's him personally. Him leaving would surely put the nail in the coffin with both Bone and Williams. Not to mention the recruits that have verbally committed. Outside looking in...he was willing to screw TN...for what? Money!

Bingo. Bingo. And bingo. Mods, sticky this.
 
#94
#94
It is idiotic stating that this is the most talented team ever at UT. If it is, Barnes created that. Not trying to be rude, but that is from the post I was quoting. Mental letdown for one half.... you could even say by Admiral and a crap call took us out. 3 points in the first half by him and we aren’t having this conversation. Admiral shouldn’t have needed Barnes to motivate him in that game. In fact none of them should have needed it.

This team started coming apart at the seams as soon as the schedule got difficult. they did have a nice win early against the Zags, but they got REAL complacent playing crap SEC teams. Once they got to Kentucky, LSU and Auburn on the schedule they looked like a totally different team. Yes, for the most part they held it together but even the national media didnt want anything to do with this team. They were just waiting to give them a 2 seed because they didnt believe the hype.

So all this didnt come down to one half of bad ball by Admiral. That just happened to be the final straw, but the problems were visible for several weeks beginning in mid February.
 
#96
#96
I don't think Barnes runs in to trouble living up to the fan base expectations vs. salary. Where I do think he runs in to some problems....most of the fan base bleed orange, live, and breath it. We expect the same from our coaches. I think he should hold a presser telling us what was going on in his mind. Does he have to? No! Should he....YES! I'll be the first to admit, I'm not holding him in the highest regard today, it's nothing to do with coaching, it's him personally. Him leaving would surely put the nail in the coffin with both Bone and Williams. Not to mention the recruits that have verbally committed. Outside looking in...he was willing to screw TN...for what? Money!


He was never going to leave. It was all about leveraging a better salary to stay at a school with relatively non-existent basketball expectations. Oh, I'm thinking "real hard" about leaving. wink wink. Tennessee may be the best thing that ever happened to Barnes. He's not giving that up.
 
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#97
#97
I don't think you are right. Of course Barnes will have expectations. He will be expected to make the NCAAT year in and year out---something UT has never done. Reasonable expectations of winning in the NCAAT will only come after expectations of reaching the NCAAT become established. You have to walk before you run and, as you (sort of) said, "aside [from] a smattering of decent years [the Vols have] NEVER fielded a dominant program and [UT] has NEVER been a true basketball school. I assume Barnes is here to move UT toward being a true basketball school.

The crucial hire now will be Barnes' successor, if he meets his expectations.


Once UT football is rolling again, none of this matters at all. That's just the truth. People aren't gonna care about this if Pruitt is in the hunt for a natty year after year. Like I said, the sting of loss in basketball is gonna be real short lived as soon as people can begin focussing on football again.

Barnes may have just played the best hand of cards in the history of UT athletics.
 
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#99
#99
Thank goodness. Barnes just leveraged fat stacks of cash to coach at a non-basketball school for basically as long as he wants the job.

Going to UCLA would have meant REAL pressure to win (not VolNation pressure). His down-home meek style wouldn't have played well in LA.

He's now guaranteed to remain the second highest paid SEC coach and doesn't have near the pressure to win that Cal has at Kentucky. The guy is a brilliant businessman,

Now he can win 25 games and bow out in the sweet16 for the rest of his career and be a GOD to UT fans.

Anyone who thinks this isn't a destination job is kidding themselves.


LMAO- good one.
 
They won't have to wait long. Barnes has a 30+ year track record filled with missed opportunities. This year, he took one of the most talented TN teams in school history and came away with nothing to show for it.[/QUOTE


your NOTHING does not hold up! 31 wins--no tennessee team has ever won more! AP number one ranking for four weeks--previous best was one week! Team earned their coach National coach of year awards (How long since a Vol coach has done that)!

Was a missed double dribble call or would have been in Championship coversation! Opened eyes of world and UCLA came calling with truck load of money!

can we call that NOTHING?
 
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