To Protect and to Serve II

#6,901
#6,901
37L1 said:
Hindsight is 20-20 and yours is better than that based on the "facts" that you have gotten from the news. There is risk in the job. Those officers know the risks. The press is screaming about the drug epidemic. Those drugs are already illegal. So how do you propose to deal with it? Pass more laws with no enofrcement, or better yet, make them legal. That will solve all the drug problems, now won't it?
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I'll tell you with foresight that that war on drugs is going to continue to fail and that no knock raids are going to continue to put LEO's at unnecessary and senseless risk.
 
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#6,902
#6,902
37L1 said:
So's the war on poverty.

You going to give up?

So where are the other drug search warrants served where officer's have been killed, if "the shoddy practices" are so common?
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Yes I'm fine with abandoning all current wars fought by the US govt.

This thread has lots of examples if you're truly interested. The baby permanently disfigured by a flash bang comes to mind. Also from a no knock warrant
 
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#6,903
#6,903
Cdywolfe said:
There are just a few super easy things LE could do that would win back the majority of the public that's become "anti-cop" and they simply refuse to. So this loser union rep can forget his victim mentality. If cops want to know why so many have turned against them they need to look no further then the mirror.
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That's like calling a 20lb bag of apples bad because one is rotten.
 
#6,907
#6,907
n_huffhines said:
When you no-knock raid someone in plain clothes and shoot their dog, don't be surprised when the homeowner thinks you're there to rob them and returns fire. There are really simple solutions to preventing the Houston shooting.

2sibif.jpg
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Yes, lets legalize black tar heroin which is part of why the warrant was issued. Pick your bong back up and power down your pc.
 
#6,908
#6,908
n_huffhines said:
Just wait until they leave the house for groceries. It's so stupid.
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I thought the same thing with the branch Dividians. They had multiple opportunities to take him into custody off the compound but waited until he was back in his fortification to do their thing.
 
#6,909
#6,909
37L1 said:
You going to give up?

So where are the other drug search warrants served where officer's have been killed, if "the shoddy practices" are so common?
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We had the blueprint 40 years ago

n_huffhines said:
Considering the climate of policing today, I found this man's (Jerry Wilson) history very interesting. He came to be police chief of DC police during the Nixon adminstration. Nixon's big domestic push was crime and added two major changes to the way we fight crime: (1) no-knock raids, and (2) preventive detention.

Despite Nixon ramping up local police departments with military tactics, equipment, and more (SWAT was born), violent crime during the Nixon administration rose in the US by 40%, and property crime rose by 24%. During that same time frame, violent crime in DC fell by 25% and property crime fell by 24%. Here is what Wilson did:

In an effort to gain community trust, he:
- hired black cops (90% of DC was black, and 75% of cops were white)
- focused on improving response time
- Instituted beat patrols rather than focusing on stop and frisk and road blocks in high crime areas
- hired college grads (police are now refusing applicants with high IQs)
- kept police nearby, but out of site of protesters when there were protests

All this led Marion Barry to declare that Wilson was gaining the trust of the black community.

Different style of management:
- He said that the "use of violence is not the job of police officers."
- When the use of force was needed, he went to the front lines
- He was publicly critical of bad cops, and when he was criticized for not supporting them, he said, "I don't stand behind my men, I stand in front of them."
- He refused to use no-knock raids. He didn't buy the propaganda that it made things safer for cops, and he didn't care if evidence got flushed. The point was getting drugs off the streets, and if they went down the toilet, then they were off the streets. A drug conviction wasn't worth the risk of a no-knock raid.

Wilson credited the drop in crime to:
- 1000 additional police officer
- the methadone program (pretty significant, because Nixon's push was for drug prevention, not treatment)
- and little things like improved street lighting

Because of our political machine, Nixon's methods won and Wilson was forgotten...
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#6,910
#6,910
InVOLuntary said:
I thought the same thing with the branch Dividians. They had multiple opportunities to take him into custody off the compound but waited until he was back in his fortification to do their thing.
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I mean, the guy jogged every morning by himself. A whole lot of people would still be alive had they taken him then.
 
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#6,913
#6,913
37L1 said:
Probably. Cops know everyday that it may be their last yet they still go to work, don't they? Many sign up to work narcotics enforcement.
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I mean lol they’re not fighting Tojo, it’s just heroin. The fate of the free world doesn’t rely on cops busting trap houses. And busting one dealer does not stop drug use, it just stops that dealer who will be replaced immediately.
 
#6,914
#6,914
DancingOutlaw said:
I mean lol they’re not fighting Tojo, it’s just heroin. The fate of the free world doesn’t rely on cops busting trap houses. And busting one dealer does not stop drug use, it just stops that dealer who will be replaced immediately.
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Same for other criminals, isn't it?
 
#6,915
#6,915
InVOLuntary said:
I've often wondered why in cases like this they don't just survail the people and take them into custody away from the where the warrant is to be served, then serve the warrant.
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Combat rule #1, do not catch your enemy out in the open. Go to his base and attack there.
 
#6,917
#6,917
37L1 said:
Same for other criminals, isn't it?
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That’s why I said change the law. Why is it against the law for consenting adults to sell things to each other? If you don’t want to do heroin, don’t. If a person wants to throw THEIR OWN LIFE away on drugs that is their choice. Now if that person steals or drives high or neglects their kids the law should intercede. But this drug war is 50’s dad I know what’s best for you young man ********.
 
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#6,918
#6,918
DancingOutlaw said:
Combat rule #1, do not catch your enemy out in the open. Go to his base and attack there.
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I'm not sure you're correct here. I googled it and this is what I came up with:

  • Rule #1 of combat: Don't let the enemy see you.
  • Rule #1 of combat: Never pick a fight with anyone (equal or) bigger than you.
  • Rule #1 of combat: Caffeinated troops are alert troops, decaffeinated troops may mutiny.
  • Rule #1 of combat: Avoid using weapons that are likely to kill their user.
  • Rule #1 of combat: Avoid getting shot
 
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#6,919
#6,919
DancingOutlaw said:
That’s why I said change the law. Why is it against the law for consenting adults to sell things to each other? If you don’t want to do heroin, don’t. If a person wants to throw THEIR OWN LIFE away on drugs that is their choice. Now if that person steals or drives high or neglects their kids the law should intercede. But this drug war is 50’s dad I know what’s best for you young man ********.
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I know. Let Government Health Care deal with the addicts and OD's.
 
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#6,921
#6,921
Cdywolfe said:
It's actually nothing like that at all but okay...
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It’s actually pretty perfect.

Nobody eats the bad apple. Nobody keeps the bad apple. Nobody defends the bad apple. Nobody asks “why do you hate all apples?” Nobody covers up the bad spots.

You throw the bad apple away. As soon as you see it. Every time.
 
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#6,922
#6,922
RockyTop85 said:
It’s actually pretty perfect.

Nobody eats the bad apple. Nobody keeps the bad apple. Nobody defends the bad apple. Nobody asks “why do you hate all apples?” Nobody covers up the bad spots.

You throw the bad apple away. As soon as you see it. Every time.
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I'm not sure what he means it's nothing like it. I was about to respond till I scrolled down. You covered it perfectly. 👍
 
#6,923
#6,923
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I'm not sure what he means it's nothing like it. I was about to respond till I scrolled down. You covered it perfectly. 👍
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I thought it supported his point better than yours, but I’ve been skimming and may have misunderstood your respective points.

Accountability for police who abuse authority (throwing away the bad apples) is, I assume, one of the things he thinks will improve relations between the police and the public.

Right now, it seems like the farmers and many of the other apples glom together to protect the bad ones.
 
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#6,924
#6,924
Also, I’m a fairly adamant libertarian and I was hip to the whole demilitarizing the police argument.

Questioning the justifications for the prohibition of heroin might have located the boundaries of my libertarianism, though.

(Without getting into the fact that no heroin was located, which is a bit more nuanced.)
 
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