To Protect and to Serve II

[DancingOutlaw]

Wasn't agreeing. His speech was saying they're tired of being spotlighted as the bad guy while they protect and serve all the azzholes that think this way.

If the police union really cared about the lives of the cops it represents it would lobby legislators to change the laws that precipitate raids on trap houses. Who cares that poor people sell weed?

 

[37L1]

If the police union really cared about the lives of the cops it represents it would lobby legislators to change the laws that precipitate raids on trap houses. Who cares that poor people sell weed?

The report was that the PD narcs were acting on information that they were selling black tar heroin.

Does that change anything?

 

[DancingOutlaw]

The report was that the PD narcs were acting on information that they were selling black tar heroin.

Does that change anything?

Not really. Do you think their customers have stopped shooting heroin now? Meanwhile two people are dead, two are critical in the hospital, and three others are wounded. Do you think the cops that got shot think it was a worthwhile mission?

 

[utvolpj]

The report was that the PD narcs were acting on information that they were selling black tar heroin.

Does that change anything?

Yet none was found. These people were such big time dealers that they had no product on hand?

Acevedo said Tuesday officers found no heroin there Monday, but they recovered marijuana, an unidentified white powder and two rifles.

Quite the haul

 

[37L1]

Yet none was found. These people were such big time dealers that they had no product on hand?



Quite the haul

It happens. Warrants are not always 100% productive. Nothing is. Remember they had to state their case in chief (probable cause) to get the warrant in the first place. Make of that what you will.

 

[37L1]

Not really. Do you think their customers have stopped shooting heroin now? Meanwhile two people are dead, two are critical in the hospital, and three others are wounded. Do you think the cops that got shot think it was a worthwhile mission?

Probably. Cops know everyday that it may be their last yet they still go to work, don't they? Many sign up to work narcotics enforcement.

 

[utvolpj]

It happens. Warrants are not always 100% productive. Nothing is. Remember they had to state their case in chief (probable cause) to get the warrant in the first place. Make of that what you will.

So you explain multiple dead and critically injured with "it happens"? All for a little weed? No wonder nothing changes

 

[Cdywolfe]

So you explain multiple dead and critically injured with "it happens"? All for a little weed? No wonder nothing changes

You said it best a few days ago...

What's the point of militarizing the police if you don't let them occasionally flex some muscle?

 

[37L1]

So you explain multiple dead and critically injured with "it happens"? All for a little weed? No wonder nothing changes

It wasn't for a little weed. Come on man. Cops get killed on traffic stops, domestic violence calls, in progress reports, etc., etc., etc., and they still respond.

Your response is that they shouldn't do it because nothing was found or achieved to meet expectations?

 

[utvolpj]

It wasn't for a little weed. Come on man. Cops get killed on traffic stops, domestic violence calls, in progress reports, etc., etc., etc., and they still respond.

Your response is that they shouldn't do it because nothing was found or achieved to meet expectations?

Yes, two people were killed in a raid that accomplished nothing. It should not have been done. Hopefully this Dept rethinks their policies after this fiasco

 

[davethevol]

Yes, two people were killed in a raid that accomplished nothing. It should not have been done. Hopefully this Dept rethinks their policies after this fiasco

Unfortunately, the department will most likely double down and become even more aggressive going forward. Many of these raids are more of a show of force than anything.

 

[37L1]

Yes, two people were killed in a raid that accomplished nothing. It should not have been done

Hindsight is 20-20 and yours is better than that based on the "facts" that you have gotten from the news. There is risk in the job. Those officers know the risks. The press is screaming about the drug epidemic. Those drugs are already illegal. So how do you propose to deal with it? Pass more laws with no enofrcement, or better yet, make them legal. That will solve all the drug problems, now won't it?

 

[37L1]

Unfortunately, the department will most likely double down and become even more aggressive going forward. Many of these raids are more of a show of force than anything.

You base that on what? There were at least a dozen officers detailed to that search warrant and this still happened. That show of force you speak of is to prevent those sort of things that happened in this case. Warrants are served everyday, hardly any turn out this way because of that "show of force."

 

[utvolpj]

Hindsight is 20-20 and yours is better than that based on the "facts" that you have gotten from the news. There is risk in the job. Those officers know the risks. The press is screaming about the drug epidemic. Those drugs are already illegal. So how do you propose to deal with it? Pass more laws with no enofrcement, or better yet, make them legal. That will solve all the drug problems, now won't it?

They had their facts wrong and people died because of it. Maybe some actual police work would have shown that to be the case. Instead they ran in ready to blast away and got caught. It's not hindsight, it's recognizing shoddy practices that are becoming more common.

The war on drugs is a failure. Has been since it started.

 

[37L1]

They had their facts wrong and people died because of it. Maybe some actual police work would have shown that to be the case. Instead they ran in ready to blast away and got caught. It's not hindsight, it's recognizing shoddy practices that are becoming more common.

The war on drugs is a failure. Has been since it started.

So's the war on poverty.

You going to give up?

So where are the other drug search warrants served where officer's have been killed, if "the shoddy practices" are so common?

 

[n_huffhines]

5 officers were sent to a drug warrant in Houston and were shot. Gives you an idea of what was wrong with the Stone raid (29 agents, 17 cars with two armored, and a helicoptor) and going after drug dealers(5 officers).

Anyhoo, here's what the Houston police officer Union President said.

When you no-knock raid someone in plain clothes and shoot their dog, don't be surprised when the homeowner thinks you're there to rob them and returns fire. There are really simple solutions to preventing the Houston shooting.

 

[n_huffhines]

Hindsight is 20-20 and yours is better than that based on the "facts" that you have gotten from the news. There is risk in the job. Those officers know the risks. The press is screaming about the drug epidemic. Those drugs are already illegal. So how do you propose to deal with it? Pass more laws with no enofrcement, or better yet, make them legal. That will solve all the drug problems, now won't it?

I'll tell you with foresight that that war on drugs is going to continue to fail and that no knock raids are going to continue to put LEO's at unnecessary and senseless risk.

 

[utvolpj]

So's the war on poverty.

You going to give up?

So where are the other drug search warrants served where officer's have been killed, if "the shoddy practices" are so common?

Yes I'm fine with abandoning all current wars fought by the US govt.

This thread has lots of examples if you're truly interested. The baby permanently disfigured by a flash bang comes to mind. Also from a no knock warrant

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

There are just a few super easy things LE could do that would win back the majority of the public that's become "anti-cop" and they simply refuse to. So this loser union rep can forget his victim mentality. If cops want to know why so many have turned against them they need to look no further then the mirror.

That's like calling a 20lb bag of apples bad because one is rotten.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

That's like calling a 20lb bag of apples bad because one is rotten.

One bad apple spoils the bunch.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I've often wondered why in cases like this they don't just survail the people and take them into custody away from the where the warrant is to be served, then serve the warrant.

 

[n_huffhines]

I've often wondered why in cases like this they don't just survail the people and take them into custody away from the where the warrant is to be served, then serve the warrant.

Just wait until they leave the house for groceries. It's so stupid.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

When you no-knock raid someone in plain clothes and shoot their dog, don't be surprised when the homeowner thinks you're there to rob them and returns fire. There are really simple solutions to preventing the Houston shooting.

Yes, lets legalize black tar heroin which is part of why the warrant was issued. Pick your bong back up and power down your pc.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Just wait until they leave the house for groceries. It's so stupid.

I thought the same thing with the branch Dividians. They had multiple opportunities to take him into custody off the compound but waited until he was back in his fortification to do their thing.

 

[n_huffhines]

You going to give up?

So where are the other drug search warrants served where officer's have been killed, if "the shoddy practices" are so common?

We had the blueprint 40 years ago

Considering the climate of policing today, I found this man's (Jerry Wilson) history very interesting. He came to be police chief of DC police during the Nixon adminstration. Nixon's big domestic push was crime and added two major changes to the way we fight crime: (1) no-knock raids, and (2) preventive detention.

Despite Nixon ramping up local police departments with military tactics, equipment, and more (SWAT was born), violent crime during the Nixon administration rose in the US by 40%, and property crime rose by 24%. During that same time frame, violent crime in DC fell by 25% and property crime fell by 24%. Here is what Wilson did:

In an effort to gain community trust, he:
- hired black cops (90% of DC was black, and 75% of cops were white)
- focused on improving response time
- Instituted beat patrols rather than focusing on stop and frisk and road blocks in high crime areas
- hired college grads (police are now refusing applicants with high IQs)
- kept police nearby, but out of site of protesters when there were protests

All this led Marion Barry to declare that Wilson was gaining the trust of the black community.

Different style of management:
- He said that the "use of violence is not the job of police officers."
- When the use of force was needed, he went to the front lines
- He was publicly critical of bad cops, and when he was criticized for not supporting them, he said, "I don't stand behind my men, I stand in front of them."
- He refused to use no-knock raids. He didn't buy the propaganda that it made things safer for cops, and he didn't care if evidence got flushed. The point was getting drugs off the streets, and if they went down the toilet, then they were off the streets. A drug conviction wasn't worth the risk of a no-knock raid.

Wilson credited the drop in crime to:
- 1000 additional police officer
- the methadone program (pretty significant, because Nixon's push was for drug prevention, not treatment)
- and little things like improved street lighting

Because of our political machine, Nixon's methods won and Wilson was forgotten...