Jerry Wilson - Chief of Metro Police

#1
n_huffhines

n_huffhines

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#1
Considering the climate of policing today, I found this man's history very interesting. He came to be police chief of DC police during the Nixon adminstration. Nixon's big domestic push was crime and added two major changes to the way we fight crime: (1) no-knock raids, and (2) preventive detention.

Despite Nixon ramping up local police departments with military tactics, equipment, and more (SWAT was born), violent crime during the Nixon administration rose in the US by 40%, and property crime rose by 24%. During that same time frame, violent crime in DC fell by 25% and property crime fell by 24%. Here is what Wilson did:

In an effort to gain community trust, he:
- hired black cops (90% of DC was black, and 75% of cops were white)
- focused on improving response time
- Instituted beat patrols rather than focusing on stop and frisk and road blocks in high crime areas
- hired college grads (police are now refusing applicants with high IQs)
- kept police nearby, but out of site of protesters when there were protests

All this led Marion Barry to declare that Wilson was gaining the trust of the black community.

Different style of management:
- He said that the "use of violence is not the job of police officers."
- When the use of force was needed, he went to the front lines
- He was publicly critical of bad cops, and when he was criticized for not supporting them, he said, "I don't stand behind my men, I stand in front of them."
- He refused to use no-knock raids. He didn't buy the propaganda that it made things safer for cops, and he didn't care if evidence got flushed. The point was getting drugs off the streets, and if they went down the toilet, then they were off the streets. A drug conviction wasn't worth the risk of a no-knock raid.

Wilson credited the drop in crime to:
- 1000 additional police officer
- the methadone program (pretty significant, because Nixon's push was for drug prevention, not treatment)
- and little things like improved street lighting

Because of our political machine, Nixon's methods won and Wilson was forgotten...
 
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#3
#3
n_huffhines said:
Considering the climate of policing today, I found this man's history very interesting.

<snipped for length>

Because of our political machine, Nixon's methods won and Wilson was forgotten...
Click to expand...

Okay, so what lessons can we learn and apply today?

(and yes, no-knocks do have their place, albeit selectively)
 
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#4
#4
Grand Vol said:
Okay, so what lessons can we learn and apply today?

(and yes, no-knocks do have their place, albeit selectively)
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what you're asking. I just wrote a page answering your question.
 
#6
#6
Grand Vol said:
Just two concerns.

An endorsement from Marion Barry isn't exactly something I would aspire for.

Wilson also was a huge proponent of the DC Gun ban.

St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search

So he isn't without his faults.
Click to expand...

Would you be concerned if Marion Barry said the sky was blue?

Wilson's opinion on gun control has little-to-nothing to do with what worked for him as a police chief fighting crime, IMO.

You seem to be consumed with the argument from authority standpoint, but that's a logical fallacy. Just cause Ronald Reagan did it, doesn't make it right, and just cause Obama did it, doesn't make it wrong. You know?
 
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#7
#7
n_huffhines said:
Would you be concerned if Marion Barry said the sky was blue?

Wilson's opinion on gun control has little-to-nothing to do with what worked for him as a police chief fighting crime, IMO.

You seem to be consumed with the argument from authority standpoint, but that's a logical fallacy. Just cause Ronald Reagan did it, doesn't make it right, and just cause Obama did it, doesn't make it wrong. You know?
Click to expand...

:crazy: Has he ever been right?
 
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#9
#9
n_huffhines said:
Would you be concerned if Marion Barry said the sky was blue?

Wilson's opinion on gun control has little-to-nothing to do with what worked for him as a police chief fighting crime, IMO.

You seem to be consumed with the argument from authority standpoint, but that's a logical fallacy. Just cause Ronald Reagan did it, doesn't make it right, and just cause Obama did it, doesn't make it wrong. You know?
Click to expand...

Opinion? Who was enforcing those Unconstitutional laws? The DC Fire Department?

Reagan did some things wrong, I'll readily admit that. Major difference being that Obama is doing a lot more things wrong.
 
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#10
#10
Tell you what Huff, I'll go point by point in your original post.

n_huffhines said:
- hired black cops (90% of DC was black, and 75% of cops were white)
Click to expand...

Which I think is an awesome thing. And something that should be done today. Now here's my counter to your point here:

How long as it been since young blacks were encouraged to pursue a career in law enforcement? The black community wants to complain about the "racism" in police forces nationwide, but won't lift a finger to change that paradigm by encouraging their own damn youth to complete college? Or even high school? When will the black community put it's foot down on the pop culture that's so quick to say "eff the police" and provide capable individuals into that profession?

Furthermore, RJD wonders why more cops don't have college degrees and want to make it mandatory. Fine, when the black community starts placing more of an emphasis on higher education and flooding the application process with qualified candidates, you'll see the paradigm change. Otherwise, just adopt affirmative action and fill the slots with the less qualified candidates.

I'm all about the best choice for a police officer. And I don't care if they are black, white, Hispanic, Asian or Martian. But people want to complain about the diversity within police departments are also the same kind of parents that don't make their kids stay in school and allow them to be influenced by a life on the streets.

n_huffhines said:
- focused on improving response time
Click to expand...

Subjective, but not a bad thing at all.

n_huffhines said:
- Instituted beat patrols rather than focusing on stop and frisk and road blocks in high crime areas
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea at all.

n_huffhines said:
- hired college grads (police are now refusing applicants with high IQs)
Click to expand...

BS, provide me a link where it specifically states a department turned anyone down for having too high an IQ. You make this kind of claim, you best back it up with proof.

n_huffhines said:
- kept police nearby, but out of site of protesters when there were protests
Click to expand...

Neutral on this. Sometimes the visible presence of officers is needed. Sometimes it will inflame a situation. But each situation can be different so this is probably subjective as well.

n_huffhines said:
All this led Marion Barry to declare that Wilson was gaining the trust of the black community.
Click to expand...

So why does he need the endorsement of just the black community? Why not the entire community?

n_huffhines said:
Different style of management:
- He said that the "use of violence is not the job of police officers."
Click to expand...

Use of violence is not. Use of force is. Very careful application of words.

n_huffhines said:
- When the use of force was needed, he went to the front lines
Click to expand...

Kinda vague...

n_huffhines said:
- He was publicly critical of bad cops, and when he was criticized for not supporting them, he said, "I don't stand behind my men, I stand in front of them."
Click to expand...

I think a lot of cops, to include chiefs, are critical of bad cops...after the trial and investigation is complete. However, in your and others initial OUTRAGE of anything bad that happens (and yes, more than a few of you comb the web looking for bad cop stories) can't see the Chief or Sheriff can't comment on the situation because of an ongoing investigation. But you don't think that little point through long enough to actually understand they cannot be perceived as being biased in either direction.

n_huffhines said:
- He refused to use no-knock raids. He didn't buy the propaganda that it made things safer for cops, and he didn't care if evidence got flushed. The point was getting drugs off the streets, and if they went down the toilet, then they were off the streets. A drug conviction wasn't worth the risk of a no-knock raid.
Click to expand...

And the no-knock issue had been beat to death, but one more time...

There are times and places where no-knocks have their use. I agree they are being overused these days, but there are instances where they need to be conducted. Sadly, you can't see the big picture and have zero desire to learn that there are instances where a perp does not need a uniformed officer politely knocking and showing the warrant.

If you actually care enough to learn and want specific instances, I'll provide them. Otherwise, continue rolling around in your pigpen of ignorance.

n_huffhines said:
Wilson credited the drop in crime to:
- 1000 additional police officer
- the methadone program (pretty significant, because Nixon's push was for drug prevention, not treatment)
- and little things like improved street lighting

Because of our political machine, Nixon's methods won and Wilson was forgotten...
Click to expand...

Sad state of affairs when you are defending the cop and I'm breaking him down.
 
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#11
#11
Grand Vol said:
Furthermore, RJD wonders why more cops don't have college degrees and want to make it mandatory. Fine, when the black community starts placing more of an emphasis on higher education and flooding the application process with qualified candidates, you'll see the paradigm change. Otherwise, just adopt affirmative action and fill the slots with the less qualified candidates.

I'm all about the best choice for a police officer. And I don't care if they are black, white, Hispanic, Asian or Martian. But people want to complain about the diversity within police departments are also the same kind of parents that don't make their kids stay in school and allow them to be influenced by a life on the streets.
Click to expand...


The qualifications are already dumb'ed down to a point where higher education isn't needed. So, while the HS diploma may be a discriminator, it isn't near as much of a discriminator against minority hiring as a college degree would. Passing that off as a primary cause of the racial disparity is disingenuous at best.

My position has nothing to do with race. It has to do with dumb'ed down qualifications for a job where you can literally ruin somebody's life or even kill somebody, over a mistake the officer made. At the very least it lends the possibility of a law abiding citizen being out legal fees and court costs because the officer didn't know what the F he was doing. And handing some of these guys military equipment compounds the problem.

I don't care if said officer is white, black, asian, hispanic, or otherwise. My beef is with the qualifications.
 
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#12
#12
Grand Vol said:
BS, provide me a link where it specifically states a department turned anyone down for having too high an IQ. You make this kind of claim, you best back it up with proof.
Click to expand...

LOL. Thought you knew me by now.

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops - ABC News

So why does he need the endorsement of just the black community? Why not the entire community?
Click to expand...

Probably because it didn't matter whether or not the 10% whites endorse the police, and they probably already did. You don't think it's significant that a white police chief in the 1970s was liked by the black community? You lived the 1970s, right?
 
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#16
#16
n_huffhines said:
LOL. Thought you knew me by now.

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops - ABC News
Click to expand...

No, you typically post up your reason.com articles and call it a day. But the first I've heard of something that absurd. But one department out of how many? Generalize much?


n_huffhines said:
Probably because it didn't matter whether or not the 10% whites endorse the police, and they probably already did. You don't think it's significant that a white police chief in the 1970s was liked by the black community? You lived the 1970s, right?
Click to expand...

Cute...born in the 70s, child of the 80s is what I'd consider myself.

But no, one does not automatically go with the other. However, seeing the breakdown of the ethnic groups in DC, it's an accomplishment. I'm just not a fan of saying "black community, Asian community, etc." It's "community" and go with that instead of creating the perceived divide. Things like this are what causes problems. When you categorize individuals into their "groups" you end up with division and animosity.

Sadly, that's the way of the world though.
 
#17
#17
rjd970 said:
The qualifications are already dumb'ed down to a point where higher education isn't needed. So, while the HS diploma may be a discriminator, it isn't near as much of a discriminator against minority hiring as a college degree would. Passing that off as a primary cause of the racial disparity is disingenuous at best.
Click to expand...

No, but when it comes to qualifications, more and more departments are requiring a two year degree as a minimum. So even the HS diploma is behind the curve as it is. You can/will argue this point, I'm sure...

But the point that the racial disparity is the fact that there is perceived racism in the LEO world. When that typically isn't the case. And the point being is the perception won't change as long as the candidates aren't putting in for the jobs. It works both ways that supposedly the police are racist because of the large number of white officers on a force. Yet the positions aren't applied for by minorities. One directly affects the other and only one side of that has the capability to change that makeup

rjd970 said:
My position has nothing to do with race. It has to do with dumb'ed down qualifications for a job where you can literally ruin somebody's life or even kill somebody, over a mistake the officer made. At the very least it lends the possibility of a law abiding citizen being out legal fees and court costs because the officer didn't know what the F he was doing. And handing some of these guys military equipment compounds the problem.

I don't care if said officer is white, black, asian, hispanic, or otherwise. My beef is with the qualifications.
Click to expand...

Which we've already proven you know dick all about the qualifications of most departments in the other thread. So I'll leave you to your ignorance.
 
#18
#18
What's the average starting pay for a mid to large size city cop? Or approximate.
 
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