Quality Class & OC Situation

[Devo182]

Too much logic. All of the three-stars that comprise the majority of our current class are mythical, mysterious three-stars that are exponentially better than all the three-stars signed by previous staffs that got us to where we are now. They'll be developed brilliantly and improve dramatically before our eyes with each game, like we saw this year.

'14 and '15 classes, comparable to this one in quality, allowed us start winning more and more and compete for the East with a budget MAC coach and developer.

I have sliiightly more confidence in this staff out developing guys over the last staff.

But just to your point of 3 stars, that is pretty myopic. 3 stars are a very wide range. Unlike many of Butch' 3 stars, (33 of them in Butch's 4 classes all his own), this class has merely ONE that is in "reach" territory (below an 86 on 247), ie a mid 3 star or low 3 star.

But that's why most just follow player average, focusing on the number of x stars doesn't always explain much. But fwiw class projects to be about 50% 4 and 5 stars, 50% 3 stars. Research says to be a championship team, you typically need 40%+ to be "blue chips", 4 and 5 stars.

 

[goooooovols]

These are better coaches and teachers. They know what their kind of players look like and they’re going after the top ranked first and descending scale that still matches their model afterwards.

What proof do we have that anything you mentioned is true... good coaches coach to the players strengths instead of make excuses that the players don’t matched their desired profile. Fact is we have/had similar star talent on the current squad as we’ve had the last 10 years and recruiting for this class is looking very much the same. We will be status quo until we find a coach who can schematically match up with others or until we get the type of classes Georgia and Bama are bringing in. We needed a hire like Leach who get 5 star play outta 2 star talent.

 

[RollerVol]

OCs are not overrated....


On a serious note, id love to get the opinions from those that agreed with Pruitt using lack of talent as an excuse for poor performance last season. This class is currently ranking close to or worst than 3 of the last four. 2018 being the exception. It also ranks in the bottom tier of the sec. So how them to we come to the conclusion that things will improve?

A solid question. I don't use lack of talent as a reason for the failings of last season as much as the lack of development and carousel of coaches and coordinators for the past several years. I think we have had talent. As far as ranking this year's class compared to others. 2015 was a great recruiting class, but several before then and all after have been in the 15 overall range and middle of the road in the conference. My hope is that we have some stability and good coaching over the next several seasons and that will improve our program.

A solid question. I don't use lack of talent as a reason for the failings of last season as much as the lack of development and carousel of coaches and coordinators for the past several years. I think we have had talent. As far as ranking this year's class compared to others. 2015 was a great recruiting class, but several before then and all after have been in the 15 overall range and middle of the road in the conference. My hope is that we have some stability and good coaching over the next several seasons and that will improve our program.

there is no excuse for poor coaching and you don't use "lack of talent" as an excuse...if you do then we don't need you at UT...believe many of us feel we have a good coach with a great defensive mind and we saw glimpses of that this season...this is a very solid foundation on which to go forward...we need a great OC who can use the personnel they have to their fullest, that's what great OCs do...who that will be I don't know but like you said we need stability, and more top 10-15 classes (hopefully, even better)...without those we'll be just another program that will live in our past glory never to return...

GO VOLS...RECRUIT LIKE HECK!

 

[Volfan76]

OCs are not overrated....


On a serious note, id love to get the opinions from those that agreed with Pruitt using lack of talent as an excuse for poor performance last season. This class is currently ranking close to or worst than 3 of the last four. 2018 being the exception. It also ranks in the bottom tier of the sec. So how them to we come to the conclusion that things will improve?

I think so. If he is going to use that excuse, he needed to get his butt over here and start recruiting last year instead of helping Bama win another championship(which they would have done anyway) AND he dang well better knock it out of the park in recruiting the next year, which he has failed to do so up to this point.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

Taylor staying. Smart move. Wgwtfa

 

[Mightyvol]

No question coaching can and does make a difference in the preparation and play of a team. CJP is a coaches son and he knows this but he also knows great coaching with talent beats great coaching without talent almost every time. At present, UT doesn't have the talent to compete with most SEC teams. He is focused on recruiting now, OC later. Another words he is building the foundation for an OC to be successful through recruiting...IMHO.

 

[GoodmanVol]

False. 2018 and 2017 average player ranking was significantly worse (~87.5 by 247 composite). 2014-2016 likely will be lower as well. This class's average player rating projects to be the highest since pre-Dooley.

If you are just looking at class ranking, this one projects to finish 9th-13th by those that follow closely. Remember, Butch's best classes had 30+ signees, but you can't do that anymore.

And it's not in any bottom tier of anything.

Just because it's the holidays and no one in my office is actually working, I thought I'd add actual numbers for conversation sake:
2019 (to date): 89.53 (SEC #6)
2018: 87.57 (SEC #8)
2017: 87.24 (SEC #7)
2016: 89.12 (SEC #7)
2015: 89.48 (SEC #2)
2014: 89.50 (SEC #5)
2013: 85.86 (SEC #11)
2012: 88.47 (SEC# 8)
2011: 88.44 (SEC #6)
2010: 88.45 (SEC #4)

I didn't bother with National rankings because really we just need to compare to the rest of the SEC.

 

[jwilliams]

So how them to we come to the conclusion that things will improve?

Butch Jones is gone.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Vols have been imbalanced for a decade and a half. We don't have SEC talent across the board, much less in the 2-deep. This class addresses OL, although it may take until 2020 before we really see it on the field. We need to be taking 3/4 elite OL every class going forward to be able to sustain the line. I don't think the 2019 DL is going to be able to pick up the same amount of slack as the 2018 DL did so it looks like we're running in place on the lines, which means that any progress is going to come from hitting on high risk/reward plays, continuing to go for it on 4th down a lot, special teams, and hoping that some of our opponents backslide.

 

[Devo182]

Butch Jones is gone.

Addition by subtraction!

 

[GVF]

We're probably falling further behind with this class. We lost more ground on the better programs in our league. Your points are very valid, and I hate to say it, but it is disappointing to me.

Chip Kelly comes to mind. He never had a stable of all highly rated "stars" by the recruiting services. He went and recruited the type of players at Oregon that fit his system, and were overlooked by everyone else. He won a lot of games that way against a lot of top schools. He looks to be signing those same types of players in this class to get his system in place at UCLA. Looking at the list of our signees, I don't see a what disappointment we'd have on paper. Until they hit the field, it's a paper analysis and it looks pretty good.

 

[Devo182]

Chip Kelly comes to mind. He never had a stable of all highly rated "stars" by the recruiting services. He went and recruited the type of players at Oregon that fit his system, and were overlooked by everyone else. He won a lot of games that way against a lot of top schools. He looks to be signing those same types of players in this class to get his system in place at UCLA. Looking at the list of our signees, I don't see a what disappointment we'd have on paper. Until they hit the field, it's a paper analysis and it looks pretty good.

Maybe, but Chip also ran a great system well ahead of its time, before defenses caught up. Will be interesting how successful he is. 1st season sure wasn't one to remember.

 

[cardvolfan]

Chip Kelly comes to mind. He never had a stable of all highly rated "stars" by the recruiting services. He went and recruited the type of players at Oregon that fit his system, and were overlooked by everyone else. He won a lot of games that way against a lot of top schools. He looks to be signing those same types of players in this class to get his system in place at UCLA. Looking at the list of our signees, I don't see a what disappointment we'd have on paper. Until they hit the field, it's a paper analysis and it looks pretty good.

I see some disappointment based on pure talent. I hope I'm proven wrong. Chip Kelly has a system that was ahead of its time. I haven't seen that system even begin to manifest itself yet. I hope it does because this decade long hiatus from the elite of college football is draining us.

 

[BeecherVol]

OCs are not overrated....


On a serious note, id love to get the opinions from those that agreed with Pruitt using lack of talent as an excuse for poor performance last season. This class is currently ranking close to or worst than 3 of the last four. 2018 being the exception. It also ranks in the bottom tier of the sec. So how them to we come to the conclusion that things will improve?

We passed UF for 6th with Gray signing today, so we're in the top tier if there are 2 tiers. Still several spots open across the conference including here so everyone will move some in Feb. Probably won't pass any more (AU maybe) SEC teams with 4 of the 5 in front of us currently sitting at 1-4 in the rankings.
The talking heads see Wright and Crouch both landing here, they would be the #1 and #3 prospects in our class. Based on the raw numbers UT if they land both will hit around #10 nationally if you average the last 3 or 4 years numbers. If they finish with what they are expected to, the FR class next year will be the highest rated on campus.

The "talented" classes (1) that the trumpet guy left have either graduated, left or never panned out. Theres about 10 guys from 2015 class that contributed (some very little) this year. That was the best class (on paper) that he left. If you prefer to view it as an excuse that's fine. After attrition and the Band Guy's last 2 classes that "talent" doesn't quiet look as good.

There will be more talent on campus next year than this year. Pruitt should be expected to move in the win column by 2 or 3 games and sign a class in the top 10 next year. If they improve on the field the recruiting will improve again. If he stumbles to 5 or 6 wins again the heat will get turned up and the recruiting more difficult.

 

[TheDeeble]

It doesn't really matter where we are ranked today. After signing day is what's actually important.

 

[GVF]

Maybe, but Chip also ran a great system well ahead of its time, before defenses caught up. Will be interesting how successful he is. 1st season sure wasn't one to remember.

I would say the coffers were more empty for him there than they were here for Pruitt. He stood no chance of having a good season, and his system is one you don't learn in one spring. I realize he was ahead of the times. It was genius to watch. But, my point was, he still did it with lesser rated "*" players and still pulled it off because he found players that fit him, and that were available. The one thing he might have gone all out for on the trail was a QB competent enough to learn it and run it. And speed. you find a 3 star with a 4.2/40 and teach him to run routes in that system and he'll outrun a 5* SEC LB all day every day.

 

[Mccage]

OCs are not overrated....


On a serious note, id love to get the opinions from those that agreed with Pruitt using lack of talent as an excuse for poor performance last season. This class is currently ranking close to or worst than 3 of the last four. 2018 being the exception. It also ranks in the bottom tier of the sec. So how them to we come to the conclusion that things will improve?

15 is bottom tier? We are ranked above 7 sec teams and above Florida who happens to have one of the best if not the best recruiting beds in the country. We have been scrutinized by the media,by our own fans, and Pruitt was left with a cess pool.Considering the above he has done pretty Damn good in my book.

 

[Pride85]

I think so. If he is going to use that excuse, he needed to get his butt over here and start recruiting last year instead of helping Bama win another championship(which they would have done anyway) AND he dang well better knock it out of the park in recruiting the next year, which he has failed to do so up to this point.

You do realize he coached Bama during the dead period last year, right? He actually couldn't recruit during that timeframe anyway.

 

[TJSVOLS]

Don't you come in here with that nonsense and rain on the downers parade.

 

[Bucket18]

I'm trying to rein in my expectations for next year. They were obviously wildly out of hand for last season. If I can keep my expectations in check, then that will be a successful season for me. But, I can trace most of my football acumen back to videos like this one:

thank u

 

[Pride85]

Chip Kelly comes to mind. He never had a stable of all highly rated "stars" by the recruiting services. He went and recruited the type of players at Oregon that fit his system, and were overlooked by everyone else. He won a lot of games that way against a lot of top schools. He looks to be signing those same types of players in this class to get his system in place at UCLA. Looking at the list of our signees, I don't see a what disappointment we'd have on paper. Until they hit the field, it's a paper analysis and it looks pretty good.

That is a good point, but I do want to add one caveat. He did have lower star rankings, but his system was well established and he could work his players into the rotation in a more normal progression. He did not have to try and run his scheme with players that were not the right fit, on either side of the ball.

 

[volroadwarrior]

OCs are not overrated....


On a serious note, id love to get the opinions from those that agreed with Pruitt using lack of talent as an excuse for poor performance last season. This class is currently ranking close to or worst than 3 of the last four. 2018 being the exception. It also ranks in the bottom tier of the sec. So how them to we come to the conclusion that things will improve?

We could go undefeated next year, win the NC and you would still be unhappy about something.

 

[volroadwarrior]

This guy gets it^

What does he get? Misery loves company, I guess.

 

[GVF]

That is a good point, but I do want to add one caveat. He did have lower star rankings, but his system was well established and he could work his players into the rotation in a more normal progression. He did not have to try and run his scheme with players that were not the right fit, on either side of the ball.

True, and as seen with UCLA this year, his system will not produce a winner until you get the system flushed and re-stocked. They may improve next year, but you won't begin to see Oregon results consistently until year 4.

 

[goooooovols]

What does he get? Misery loves company, I guess.

So does delusion...