Get out the beer and popcorn

#52
#52
zeppelin128 said:
I don't see this bias. I see Red Hats angry that Lord Red Hat and company is under investigation for being shady as hell.
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Of course you dont see it. Your hate of Trump runs way too deep. I have no problem with Trump being investigated. I do believe however, that there needs to be equal justice for all. If a person commits a felony, they shoukd go to prison. Their job status or who their family members are should not make any difference.

Of course Trump is shady. He is a billionaire and now politician.
 
#53
#53
zeppelin128 said:
I'm fine with everything being released. I'm not fine with piecemeal snippets used to make the President look good. That's all I'm saying.
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I hear you although I think the "piecemeal" complaint is overblown, particularly with regard to the FISA app.

As I understand it for the text messages it will be ALL messages from a set of people that have ANYTHING to do with Russia and the Russia investigation.
 
#56
#56
BigOrangeTrain said:
Of course you dont see it. Your hate of Trump runs way too deep. I have no problem with Trump being investigated. I do believe however, that there needs to be equal justice for all. If a person commits a felony, they shoukd go to prison. Their job status or who their family members are should not make any difference.

Of course Trump is shady. He is a billionaire and now politician.
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The same case can be made for those whose suspicions run too deep about the Deep State, or the Department of Justice.

Most people have faith in our system of Justice, Trump is breaking with the traditions of his office and ordering these declassifications, because of transparency? I don't buy it.. He wants to know what they know, so he can fire up his Twitter and distort details to suit his narrative.

But sure, even if his own appointees object, he can do it..

I'm not saying he is doing wrong by our nation. He is actually setting the standard of what a President shouldn't be.
 
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#57
#57
Stew Cook said:
The same case can be made for those whose suspicions run too deep about the Deep State, or the Department of Justice.

Most people have faith in our system of Justice, Trump is breaking with the traditions of his office and ordering these declassifications, because of transparency? I don't buy it.. He wants to know what they know, so he can fire up his Twitter and distort details to suit his narrative.

But sure, even if his own appointees object, he can do it..

I'm not saying he is doing wrong by our nation. He is actually setting the standard of what a President shouldn't be.
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Already been done.
 
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#59
#59
Stew Cook said:
The same case can be made for those whose suspicions run too deep about the Deep State, or the Department of Justice.

Most people have faith in our system of Justice, Trump is breaking with the traditions of his office and ordering these declassifications, because of transparency? I don't buy it.. He wants to know what they know, so he can fire up his Twitter and distort details to suit his narrative.

But sure, even if his own appointees object, he can do it..

I'm not saying he is doing wrong by our nation. He is actually setting the standard of what a President shouldn't be.
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His nannies are having a rough few months. No wonder there's so much turnover. Could you imagine dealing with this chaos every damn day?
 
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#60
#60
zeppelin128 said:
I said declassify all of it. I'm fine with it. I'm not fine with this obvious trickling, picking and choosing of information to release to benefit Lord Red Hat by undermining the Special Counsel's investigation.
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How does it undermine if it’s true ? The truth shouldn’t undermine anything .
 
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#61
#61
Stew Cook said:
The same case can be made for those whose suspicions run too deep about the Deep State, or the Department of Justice.

Most people have faith in our system of Justice, Trump is breaking with the traditions of his office and ordering these declassifications, because of transparency? I don't buy it.. He wants to know what they know, so he can fire up his Twitter and distort details to suit his narrative.

But sure, even if his own appointees object, he can do it..

I'm not saying he is doing wrong by our nation. He is actually setting the standard of what a President shouldn't be.
Click to expand...

He already knows what they know so far as what he's releasing. I'm not disagreeing he's doing this for his advantage but just as I didn't condone Snowden's actions I'm appreciative that we as citizens got insight into what our government was doing.

In particular, the FISA situation is most critical. There's enough smoke to suggest the FISA application over-relied on unverified information, used "news source" information that was merely the same unverified information peddled by Steele to the media AND excluded exculpatory information about Page. We should all know the justification used by the government to spy on a citizen.

I used to have as a signature a quote by Ron Wyden (D). It was a reference to the Obama administration refusal to state the legal authority they deemed they had to kill US citizens overseas. It is an exceedingly high bar for our government to turn on it's citizens and everyone should be skeptical at the justifications used. At a minimum we should be privy to them.
 
#62
#62
zeppelin128 said:
Not surprised that a Red Hat would never care what Trump says or does, no matter what the result or cost. Anything to stick it to liberals, amiright?
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And yet you are not the least bit curious that mueller hasn’t said one thing to the man they said was acting as a Russian spy ? Carter page ) we are about to see the warrant on the guy they used to get in with but he hasn’t sat before anyone from the FBI , DOJ or team M ... that’s not odd to you ?
 
#63
#63
volinbham said:
He already knows what they know so far as what he's releasing. I'm not disagreeing he's doing this for his advantage but just as I didn't condone Snowden's actions I'm appreciative that we as citizens got insight into what our government was doing.

In particular, the FISA situation is most critical. There's enough smoke to suggest the FISA application over-relied on unverified information, used "news source" information that was merely the same unverified information peddled by Steele to the media AND excluded exculpatory information about Page. We should all know the justification used by the government to spy on a citizen.

I used to have as a signature a quote by Ron Wyden (D). It was a reference to the Obama administration refusal to state the legal authority they deemed they had to kill US citizens overseas. It is an exceedingly high bar for our government to turn on it's citizens and everyone should be skeptical at the justifications used. At a minimum we should be privy to them.
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I'll assume you are right about him knowing everything, but he still would have to do the dog and pony show to get the info into the public discussion.

If you think FISA details should always be public, then you may have a point. We'll have to consider this a test run I suppose.

I'm glad we can agree on the suspicions of this being a self-serving act of transparency.
 
#64
#64
0nelilreb said:
How does it undermine if it’s true ? The truth shouldn’t undermine anything .
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You can craft "truth" with selective pieces of the puzzle, while ignoring anything that threatens that "truth" you are trying to create.
Trump is doing exactly this imo. He and his administration can never be trusted. They have shown themselves to be pathological liars at every opportunity. Only outside investigation can get to the root of all this. And Mueller will in due time.
 
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#65
#65
zeppelin128 said:
You can craft "truth" with selective pieces of the puzzle, while ignoring anything that threatens that "truth" you are trying to create.
Trump is doing exactly this imo. He and his administration can never be trusted. They have shown themselves to be pathological liars at every opportunity. Only outside investigation can get to the root of all this. And Mueller will in due time.
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Soon......
 
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#66
#66
Stew Cook said:
I'll assume you are right about him knowing everything, but he still would have to do the dog and pony show to get the info into the public discussion.

If you think FISA details should always be public, then you may have a point. We'll have to consider this a test run I suppose.

I'm glad we can agree on the suspicions of this being a self-serving act of transparency.
Click to expand...

I don't think FISA should always be public though I'm open to a process where there might be some oversight. However, FISA itself doesn't always involve authorization to surveil a US citizen. I believe the stakes are higher when a US citizen is involved. Additionally, we know as a fact that information collected as opposition research was used to obtain the authorization and was considered pivotal (McCabe testimony). There also appears to be evidence that exculpatory evidence was excluded from the application. Puzzling that the subject of the surveillance has not only not been indicted but there's absolutely no indication he did anything wrong. For the life of me I can't understand why any citizen wouldn't want to see if there was an abuse here.

The entire Russia - collusion saga is filled with political self - serving and personal aggrandizement (see the Comey book tour). I too would prefer complete transparency but I'll take some over none and as I've stated over and over, the FISA issue is central to the very notion of our citizenship.
 
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#67
#67
zeppelin128 said:
You can craft "truth" with selective pieces of the puzzle, while ignoring anything that threatens that "truth" you are trying to create.
Trump is doing exactly this imo. He and his administration can never be trusted. They have shown themselves to be pathological liars at every opportunity. Only outside investigation can get to the root of all this. And Mueller will in due time.
Click to expand...

Do you have faith that the FISA application was completely above board?
 
#68
#68
volinbham said:
I don't think FISA should always be public though I'm open to a process where there might be some oversight. However, FISA itself doesn't always involve authorization to surveil a US citizen. I believe the stakes are higher when a US citizen is involved. Additionally, we know as a fact that information collected as opposition research was used to obtain the authorization and was considered pivotal (McCabe testimony). There also appears to be evidence that exculpatory evidence was excluded from the application. Puzzling that the subject of the surveillance has not only not been indicted but there's absolutely no indication he did anything wrong. For the life of me I can't understand why any citizen wouldn't want to see if there was an abuse here.

The entire Russia - collusion saga is filled with political self - serving and personal aggrandizement (see the Comey book tour). I too would prefer complete transparency but I'll take some over none and as I've stated over and over, the FISA issue is central to the very notion of our citizenship.
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I have opinions on Page, in regards to his history with the Feds and Russia, but nothing solid enough to craft a justification absent the details I would expect to find in the warrants.

So, I suppose after we wade through the spin, we may know, with some degree of certainty, what was what.
 
#71
#71
Stew Cook said:
I have opinions on Page, in regards to his history with the Feds and Russia, but nothing solid enough to craft a justification absent the details I would expect to find in the warrants.

So, I suppose after we wade through the spin, we may know, with some degree of certainty, what was what.
Click to expand...

Seeing the application should be illuminating then.
 
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#73
#73
zeppelin128 said:
You can craft "truth" with selective pieces of the puzzle, while ignoring anything that threatens that "truth" you are trying to create.
Trump is doing exactly this imo. He and his administration can never be trusted. They have shown themselves to be pathological liars at every opportunity. Only outside investigation can get to the root of all this. And Mueller will in due time.
Click to expand...

And if there’s no Russian colusion ? Let me guess it was because Trump “ tainted the investigation” Don’t forget why this “ investigation” was started
 
#74
#74
Now, had mueller ordered this, well lg and his band of pussies would be singing a different tune.

They want info released, only if it benefits them.


Biggest damn hypocrites ive ever seen.

Y’all all can all kiss my ass.


Viva President Trump!!!
 
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