2018 Record

[jakez4ut]

True, but Vandy is the last game of the season. If Pruitt is the coach we all hope that he is, then he should be able to find a way to win against a pre-season-projected 3-9 Vanderbilt.

I don't think anyone would disagree that losing to vandy again would be a huge downer.

 

[MWAVolfan]

The coldest take I've seen all offseason. And that's with OD posting two threads a day.

Vandy and USC are no chance games, but WV is a toss up? Because Vandy is a road game? Please explain how the 3 hour drive to Nashville and a crowd that is 80% orange is more daunting than a true neutral site game against a much superior and highly favored team?

You act as if there's no precedent for such a thing. How about 2016 when UT beat VT and then lost to Vandy or perhaps when UT beat GT last year and got throttled by Vandy IN KNOXVILLE.

Both of those Tennessee teams were better than what will be fielded this year.

Tennessee will not win a road game in the SEC.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

You act as if there's no precedent for such a thing. How about 2016 when UT beat VT and then lost to Vandy or perhaps when UT beat GT last year and got throttled by Vandy IN KNOXVILLE.

Both of those Tennessee teams were better than what will be fielded this year.

Tennessee will not win a road game in the SEC.

I highly doubt our 2017 team was better than what will be fielded this year. Close to a 0% chance we don't see a notable upgrade in production on both sides of the ball. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be world beaters or that our record will improve much, but they won't be as bad as last year.


The 2017 may have had a couple more playmakers (Kelly and Gaulden), but from the time the 2016 season ended everything about our football program was rotten to the core and toxic beyond belief. The stability of our new coaching staff in and of itself will make at least some difference. If Pruitt and Helton are able to excel in their gameplanning and playcalling, we may even see a team that punches above their weight class this year. The 2017 and 2016 teams punched wayyyyy below their weight class.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Fact is Pruitt as HBC is unknown. We have decent OL and DL, but little depth. Secondary is greatest liability... luckily that is Pruitt's wheelhouse. They will have to have a short memory come the WV game. That said, be it Chryst or JG, good QB play can cover over many deficiencies. This will determine difference in a 5-7 and 8-4 year.

IMO our record will basically come down to OL play. If they're good enough for us to play ball control offense, slow games down, and keep our defense fresh, then we'll have a chance to pull off some upsets.

If they give up a ton of TFLs like last year and don't give our defense time to rest, we may be sitting at home again this December.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I highly doubt our 2017 team was better than what will be fielded this year. Close to a 0% chance we don't see a notable upgrade in production on both sides of the ball. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be world beaters or that our record will improve much, but they won't be as bad as last year.


The 2017 may have had a couple more playmakers (Kelly and Gaulden), but from the time the 2016 season ended everything about our football program was rotten to the core and toxic beyond belief. The stability of our new coaching staff in and of itself will make at least some difference. If Pruitt and Helton are able to excel in their gameplanning and playcalling, we may even see a team that punches above their weight class this year. The 2017 and 2016 teams punched wayyyyy below their weight class.

With all due respect you have no idea yet about the stability of the coaching staff or the culture of the team until things played out. Until things start happening on the field you just don't know how they will react. Plus the team is still mostly Butch Jones players who came from that old toxic environment. Once you throw in a brand new coaching staff with brand new offensive and defensive schemes to learn you are going to have massive learning curves. You can't have that and expect to win in the SEC especially on the road.

If this team has only 4 wins going into that Vandy game, with no bowl game to play for, the Vols will lose for sure. I'm pretty sure they lose no matter what. Derek Mason knows how to beat TN and until Pruitt has a chance to fully install his system and his players I don't think it will change.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

With all due respect you have no idea yet about the stability of the coaching staff or the culture of the team until things played out. [sic]

Fair enough. There are a TON of unknowns for the 2018 Vols. Almost impossible to predict what's going to happen.

I actually agree with you, MWA.

But then, you go and post this:

I'm pretty sure they [the Vols] lose [to Vandy] no matter what.

And earlier, you said this:

Tennessee will not win a road game in the SEC.

You see your own logical inconsistencies, right?

Maybe you don't....

I'm just satisfied you use "they" to talk about the Vols rather than "we." Because I sure can't see you as one of us.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Fair enough. There are a TON of unknowns for the 2018 Vols. Almost impossible to predict what's going to happen.

I actually agree with you, MWA.

But then, you go and post this:

And earlier, you said this:

You see your own logical inconsistencies, right?

Maybe you don't....

No sir my prediction is not inconsistent. Even if the coaching staff is head over heals better than Jones staff, this team isn't going to win a road SEC game in 2018.

The previous poster blamed my examples from 2016 and 2017 on unstable and toxic environments. I simply said he could not count on that being any different until proof is offered.

But my predictions about the season do not hinge on unknowns or instability other than the instability caused by a new system being put into place which is not an unknown but a fact.

Toxic environment or no toxic environment, it doesn't matter. UTs SEC road games are all too tough for this current team to overcome.

And yeah I believe whole heartedly that the Vandy game will prove tougher at the end of the year than the WV game at the beginning of the year.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

No sir my prediction is not inconsistent. Even if the coaching staff is head over heals better than Jones staff, this team isn't going to win a road SEC game in 2018.

The previous poster blamed my examples from 2016 and 2017 on unstable and toxic environments. I simply said he could not count on that being any different until proof is offered.

But my predictions about the season do not hinge on unknowns or instability other than the instability caused by a new system being put into place which is not an unknown but a fact.

Toxic environment or no toxic environment, it doesn't matter. UTs SEC road games are all too tough for this current team to overcome.

And yeah I believe whole heartedly that the Vandy game will prove tougher at the end of the year than the WV game at the beginning of the year.

You should've stuck with "we have no idea until things play out."

 

[LeannaVol]

I am optimistic about Pruitt but I just don't see any way we win more than 7 games this year. 6-6 or 5-7 is my prediction for the regular season. We have some pieces but a lot of holes with little depth. It takes time to change a culture. Some players will be told to transfer, a few will graduate. The way he is recruiting gives me hope but lets recognize it takes some time.

 

[jakez4ut]

:thumbsup:

You should've stuck with "we have no idea until things play out."

 

[jakez4ut]

No sir my prediction is not inconsistent. Even if the coaching staff is head over heals better than Jones staff, this team isn't going to win a road SEC game in 2018.

.

...because i said so.....lol:

 

[Behr]

 

[jakez4ut]

I am optimistic about Pruitt but I just don't see any way we win more than 7 games this year. 6-6 or 5-7 is my prediction for the regular season. We have some pieces but a lot of holes with little depth. It takes time to change a culture. Some players will be told to transfer, a few will graduate. The way he is recruiting gives me hope but lets recognize it takes some time.

it does.

and i am in the camp that agrees that it's a big ask to have everything come together in year one, with as much change as we're going to experience. the roster has already changed a pretty good amount since Spring ended.

we're just used to getting all the wrong answers to all our questions.

i think we finally get a few right ones.

as for transfers, i think we've maybe seen the lion's share of that already. won't rule out a straggler here or there, but i think if there was going to a mass defection, it would have happened by now.

holes and depth issues remain. but the O line has gotten a boost, and could get another if/when both Hall and Smith are 100% and cleared. if that happens, the O line doesn't look near as bad as it did 3 months ago.

the defense is a question as a whole. we've not been good against the run in while. that has to change.

Shiveman hit the nail on the head though. if we can play some ball control, generate first downs and keep the defense fresh, it'll give us a fighting chance most weeks.

6-6/7-5...go to a bowl, look ahead to brighter days.

 

[MWAVolfan]

You should've stuck with "we have no idea until things play out."

Uh, is this not a thread regarding predictions of the 2018 record?

I gave mine.

There is no "let's let things play out" in a prediction. A prediction is a prediction.

If you dont like a little spine in predictions perhaps go over to where they waffle back and forth.

My prediction is no more than 6 wins and definitely no wins on the road against an SEC team.

I'm more than happy to eat crow if I'm wrong but I'm not changing the definitive nature of my prediction.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Uh, is this not a thread regarding predictions of the 2018 record?

I gave mine.

There is no "let's let things play out" in a prediction. A prediction is a prediction.

If you dont like a little spine in predictions perhaps go over to where they waffle back and forth.

Wait.

Wasn't this you, in this same thread, to another person?

With all due respect you have no idea...until things played [sic] out. Until things start happening on the field you just don't know how they will react....

Castigating a fellow poster for giving his viewpoint of how things will play out?

Pot meet kettle?

 

[MWAVolfan]

Wait.

Wasn't this you, in this same thread, to another person?



Castigating a fellow poster for giving his viewpoint of how things will play out?

Pot meet kettle?

Read the entire exchange.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Wait.

Wasn't this you, in this same thread, to another person?



Castigating a fellow poster for giving his viewpoint of how things will play out?

Pot meet kettle?

All I was saying is that we won't know if the toxic nature of the program is gone until we see what happens on the field. But the toxic nature of the program, even if gone, does not change my prediction.

I was also pointing out after the poster was dumbfounded by the idea that UT could beat WV and lose to Vandy that this very thing has already happened two years in a row and he tried to play it off like it was all due to a toxic environment which isn't the case.

When you understand the genesis of the discussion instead of cherry picking the latest post then you can have a better understanding of my prediction.

 

[Volfan76]

I am optimistic about Pruitt but I just don't see any way we win more than 7 games this year. 6-6 or 5-7 is my prediction for the regular season. We have some pieces but a lot of holes with little depth. It takes time to change a culture. Some players will be told to transfer, a few will graduate. The way he is recruiting gives me hope but lets recognize it takes some time.

Is the fan base so conditioned to losing that you can't even fathom success? Why is so plausible that a team can go from 9-4 to 4-8, but not 4-8 to 9-4? Last years team was not a 4-8 team, we just had a 4-8 coach. I'm not a pumper by any means(check my stats), in fact I was calling for Butch's head after the App State game...but successful coaches can and do overachieve. Mediocre coaches do not. If we go 5-7 this year, Pruitt isn't the right guy for this job. That being said, I think he is the right guy and I think he will do well here if he can overcome the pessimism of the fan base. No reason Pruitt can't win 8 games.

 

[KeyVol14]

7-5 and I’m pretty firm on that. It’s been said a 100 times but the team last year quit on butch and didn’t give a damn. They may have gone 4-8 but the level of talent was greater than that. I can see us winning 7 games this year this coaching staff is too good. I realize it takes time but we have three cupcakes and Kentucky, Vandy, and mizzou should all be wins. Florida and SC are tossups and I see us stealing an upset from somebody so the path is clear to get to 7!

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Read the entire exchange.

Already did.

Shiveman's post was full of predictions for 2018:

I highly doubt our 2017 team was better than what will be fielded this year. Close to a 0% chance we don't see a notable upgrade in production on both sides of the ball. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be world beaters or that our record will improve much, but they won't be as bad as last year.


The 2017 may have had a couple more playmakers (Kelly and Gaulden), but from the time the 2016 season ended everything about our football program was rotten to the core and toxic beyond belief. The stability of our new coaching staff in and of itself will make at least some difference. If Pruitt and Helton are able to excel in their gameplanning and playcalling, we may even see a team that punches above their weight class this year. The 2017 and 2016 teams punched wayyyyy below their weight class.

Bolded the future tense cores of each prediction. To which you responded:

With all due respect you have no idea...until things played [sic] out. Until things start happening on the field you just don't know how they will react....

Which is, of course, you being the pot, calling the kettle black, having also said this:

Uh, is this not a thread regarding predictions of the 2018 record?

I gave mine.

There is no "let's let things play out" in a prediction. A prediction is a prediction.

If you dont like a little spine in predictions perhaps go over to where they waffle back and forth.

Your logical inconsistency continues to grow with each response, MWA.

 

[MWAVolfan]

.

 

[MWAVolfan]

The coldest take I've seen all offseason. And that's with OD posting two threads a day.

Vandy and USC are no chance games, but WV is a toss up? Because Vandy is a road game? Please explain how the 3 hour drive to Nashville and a crowd that is 80% orange is more daunting than a true neutral site game against a much superior and highly favored team?

This is the thread that led to Silvermans post. Silverman's post was a separate discussion. I was responding to this when he jumped in.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

This is the thread that led to Silvermans post. Silverman's post was a separate discussion

Silverman's post was one part of the entire thread, discussing what we may expect to see in 2018.

There are many elements to what we may see in 2018. Silverman commented on several of them. You told him he can't predict that, but has to let it play out to see.

You simultaneously made a few predictions of your own. And then defended your own predictions by saying that there is no "wait and see" in predictions, it's the nature of predictions.

MWA, you're a little thick, but I'm confident you can see the contradictions among the statements you've made. You only continue to argue the point to avoid admitting you're wrong. But we can all see it, whether you admit it or not.

So just fess up, you anti-Vol fan, you.

 

[OnlyGodForgives]

Is the fan base so conditioned to losing that you can't even fathom success? Why is so plausible that a team can go from 9-4 to 4-8, but not 4-8 to 9-4? Last years team was not a 4-8 team, we just had a 4-8 coach. I'm not a pumper by any means(check my stats), in fact I was calling for Butch's head after the App State game...but successful coaches can and do overachieve. Mediocre coaches do not. If we go 5-7 this year, Pruitt isn't the right guy for this job. That being said, I think he is the right guy and I think he will do well here if he can overcome the pessimism of the fan base. No reason Pruitt can't win 8 games.

We agree on one crucial point. I too think we will have all the necessary info on Pruitt after this first year. How will he handle adversity in the form of injuries, player dissatisfaction, and another last place finish? If despite all that the AD still has his back he may get some breathing room to shape the program in his image. Support from those in charge is all that matters, not fan reactions.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Silverman's post was one part of the entire thread, discussing what we may expect to see in 2018.

There are many elements to what we may see in 2018. Silverman commented on several of them. You told him he can't predict that, but has to let it play out to see.

You simultaneously made a few predictions of your own. And then defended your own predictions by saying that there is no "wait and see" in predictions, it's the nature of predictions.

MWA, you're a little thick, but I'm confident you can see the contradictions among the statements you've made. You only continue to argue the point to avoid admitting you're wrong. But we can all see it, whether you admit it or not.

So just fess up, you anti-Vol fan, you.

I was politely pointing out the error in the logic that seeing an improvement in the toxic culture wasnt going to save this team from getting plowed.😁

I was also pointing out that we can't use that as a basis for prediction because we dont even know that the toxic culture is gone.

But my clearly superior prediction (cough cough) isn't reliant on things that we have to wait and see. It's based on the overwhelming set of circumstances already in place. New coach,new system,tough road opponents,crappy Butch Jones leftover players that weren't good enough to jump ship to the NFL with the exception of a precious few.a less than stellar recruiting class.The fact that playing on the road in the SEC is hard even for experienced teams.the fact that two years in a row we won tough non conference games only to lose to Vanderbily later.

With any good prediction you look at the things you already know are true and work off of that and not say things like "oh the old toxic culture is surely gone and because of that there's no way this team doesn't get better" or something like that.

You'll notice that my prediction doesn't even address Pruitts abilities, his skills or his promising future. Because I dont know any of that and also because even if all of those things are glowingly positive it will have little to no impact on the W-L record that comes out of 2018 because of the other things I already listed.

Sometimes I can come across as castigating I suppose. I mean no harm by it. But how do you politely tell someone their baby is ugly?

In a free and open discussion I'm allowed to tell you why your prediction is wrong and mine is right...lol