Recruiting Discussion

[BigZiti09]

No you said it needed to be his best clas

It does.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I’m not questioning Barnes ability to develop.

I think we can recruit better and I’m still not sure we are working as hard in that area as we could. Sorry that’s just my take. My inclination is that the staff believes we can just develop our way to where we wanna be and maybe that’s true but it would be nice to see him develop about 4-5 guys on the roster ranked 50-100 or so.

Maybe they don’t feel they can develop those guys quite as much? There’s more to it, but the abbreviated version is this...do you take Detrick Mostella or Lamonte Turner???

Yes they can land some of those guys, but they are going to be the right ones...DJ Burns appears likely to be one very soon, they’ve got another in Pons...I’m not sure you’ll ever see quite as many Top 100 guys as you want but that’s just a hunch on my part about the strategy this staff is taking.

 

[BigZiti09]

Maybe they don’t feel they can develop those guys quite as much? There’s more to it, but the abbreviated version is this...do you take Detrick Mostella or Lamonte Turner???

Yes they can land some of those guys, but they are going to be the right ones...DJ Burns appears likely to be one very soon, they’ve got another in Pons...I’m not sure you’ll ever see quite as many Top 100 guys as you want but that’s just a hunch on my part about the strategy this staff is taking.

Man I get that. Turner > Mostella no doubt.

But Mostella was also a kid who was available late because he was question mark to begin with. He had grade issues and probably some other issues that made him less attractive. He’s the top 100 player that you’re able to get in April because he’s got baggage.

We don’t have to add guys like that in 2019.

I’m not asking for the moon. Just think we can do better.

 

[cncchris33]

Man I get that. Turner > Mostella no doubt.

But Mostella was also a kid who was available late because he was question mark to begin with. He had grade issues and probably some other issues that made him less attractive. He’s the top 100 player that you’re able to get in April because he’s got baggage.

We don’t have to add guys like that in 2019.

I’m not asking for the moon. Just think we can do better.

Does DJ Burns fit the description of what you are looking for?

 

[BigZiti09]

Does DJ Burns fit the description of what you are looking for?

Yes. Would be a nice addition to the 2019 class.

 

[Dallasbowlin]

2019 should be a great.class. Burns, Gaines, and another solid player would be nice. Any updates on Haines? Have we visited recently

 

[VolGee4]

It is quite clear that Barnes is looking for a type of player that will accept his coaching. Comments were made all year long among the SECN analysts that this team is "coachable."

It appears that Barnes felt like he was "burned" a bit at Texas by 5 star players who did their own thing. Because of that, the pool of players is more limited. It doesn't mean that we can't land a top 50-75 player with that attitude, but not all of those players fit that mold.

Edit: And to add to this, I don't know which way is necessarily better. Calipari does a great job with his freshmen, but he is always pleading with them to play a certain way. Jay Wright has now shown the blue print to winning the other way by recruiting top 75 talent that isn't good enough to leave early. But Nova has been up and down with NCAAT results since has been there.

 

[cwbytruckers]

It is quite clear that Barnes is looking for a type of player that will accept his coaching. Comments were made all year long among the SECN analysts that this team is "coachable."

It appears that Barnes felt like he was "burned" a bit at Texas by 5 star players who did their own thing. Because of that, the pool of players is more limited. It doesn't mean that we can't land a top 50-75 player with that attitude, but not all of those players fit that mold.

Edit: And to add to this, I don't know which way is necessarily better. Calipari does a great job with his freshmen, but he is always pleading with them to play a certain way. Jay Wright has now shown the blue print to winning the other way by recruiting top 75 talent that isn't good enough to leave early. But Nova has been up and down with NCAAT results since has been there.

Thats some up and down as a fan i could get on board with.

 

[BigZiti09]

It is quite clear that Barnes is looking for a type of player that will accept his coaching. Comments were made all year long among the SECN analysts that this team is "coachable."

It appears that Barnes felt like he was "burned" a bit at Texas by 5 star players who did their own thing. Because of that, the pool of players is more limited. It doesn't mean that we can't land a top 50-75 player with that attitude, but not all of those players fit that mold.

Edit: And to add to this, I don't know which way is necessarily better. Calipari does a great job with his freshmen, but he is always pleading with them to play a certain way. Jay Wright has now shown the blue print to winning the other way by recruiting top 75 talent that isn't good enough to leave early. But Nova has been up and down with NCAAT results since has been there.

Jay wright isn’t the first to recruit like that.

 

[BruinVol]

Yes. Would be a nice addition to the 2019 class.

Lol. Because some nerd behind a computer gets paid 40k a year to work for a service says he is ranked just inside the top 100?

The 5 stars are easy to rank but the rest might as well be ranked the same. No dang difference between Burns, Walker or Williams rankings. Nerds can't evaluate outside of the top few 5 stars

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Man I get that. Turner > Mostella no doubt.

But Mostella was also a kid who was available late because he was question mark to begin with. He had grade issues and probably some other issues that made him less attractive. He’s the top 100 player that you’re able to get in April because he’s got baggage.

We don’t have to add guys like that in 2019.

I’m not asking for the moon. Just think we can do better.

Tyler Harris or James Akinjo?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Lol. Because some nerd behind a computer gets paid 40k a year to work for a service says he is ranked just inside the top 100?

The 5 stars are easy to rank but the rest might as well be ranked the same. No dang difference between Burns, Walker or Williams rankings. Nerds can't evaluate outside of the top few 5 stars

Largely dependent on offer lists and who goes to what camps...not saying to disregard them completely but I’ve been a huge proponent that adding a guy ranked 80 who has attitude issues/doesn’t fit your system isn’t nearly as beneficial as adding a guy ranked 150 who is willing to work and fits your system.

 

[BruinVol]

Largely dependent on offer lists and who goes to what camps...not saying to disregard them completely but I’ve been a huge proponent that adding a guy ranked 80 who has attitude issues/doesn’t fit your system isn’t nearly as beneficial as adding a guy ranked 150 who is willing to work and fits your system.

I am sure attitude plays a big role big but after a year where we had two players win POTY awards in the SEC that posters like Ziti didn't think were worthy I just don't value the nerds that rank one guy 80 while another one is 140.
Zero difference unless they are 5 stars to me

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I am sure attitude plays a big role big but after a year where we had two players win POTY awards in the SEC that posters like Ziti didn't think were worthy I just don't value the nerds that rank one guy 80 while another one is 140.
Zero difference unless they are 5 stars to me

I think there is some merit, but if I’ve learned anything it’s to trust this staffs evaluations...I made a post a couple months ago naming guys this staff offered, pursued and missed and almost all of them are very good players. To me that said a lot, Grant Williams wasn’t a fluke, the staff knew what they had and that’s why they targeted him Day 1...this staff also wanted Josh Okogie very badly who went from unranked 3* to being in most NBA Mock Drafts.

 

[BigZiti09]

Lol. Because some nerd behind a computer gets paid 40k a year to work for a service says he is ranked just inside the top 100?

The 5 stars are easy to rank but the rest might as well be ranked the same. No dang difference between Burns, Walker or Williams rankings. Nerds can't evaluate outside of the top few 5 stars

Lol at that notion.

 

[VolGee4]

Jay wright isn’t the first to recruit like that.

Who has won 2 titles while recruiting like that?

If you look at the past NCAA champions in the last 10-15 years, all of them have pros on the team. One exception was UConn in 2014 with Napier. That team didn't end up with any significant pros. But most of the rest have either had high draft picks or guys who have made contributions in the NBA.

The 2016 Villanova team only really had Josh Hart, who was selected 30th and averages about 5 points a game. This year's team may have some pros, but they are hardly one and dones. 5 significant players on this year's team ALL took a redshirt year, including their 5 star, Omari Spellman. Spellman's redshirt was academic related, but it's amazing that this is such an elite team with 5 guys who took redshirt years.

That's a different way to build a program. Tell me other championship teams that have done that in the last 15 years.

 

[BigZiti09]

Who has won 2 titles while recruiting like that?

If you look at the past NCAA champions in the last 10-15 years, all of them have pros on the team. One exception was UConn in 2014 with Napier. That team didn't end up with any significant pros. But most of the rest have either had high draft picks or guys who have made contributions in the NBA.

The 2016 Villanova team only really had Josh Hart, who was selected 30th and averages about 5 points a game. This year's team may have some pros, but they are hardly one and dones. 5 significant players on this year's team ALL took a redshirt year, including their 5 star, Omari Spellman. Spellman's redshirt was academic related, but it's amazing that this is such an elite team with 5 guys who took redshirt years.

That's a different way to build a program. Tell me other championship teams that have done that in the last 15 years.

Not the first guy to build his team around 3 and 4 year 4* players.

If you wanna talk about National Champions only then maybe you have something. Idk exactly what point you’re making.

 

[VolGee4]

Not the first guy to build his team around 3 and 4 year 4* players.

If you wanna talk about National Champions only then maybe you have something. Idk exactly what point you’re making.

Yes, I am looking at big picture. As in, national championships. I thought the point of all of this is to win a title, considering that we know Barnes can win a regular season championship with 3 stars.

Jay Wright has won 2 of 3 titles without significant and/or elite professional players. That's what I am getting at. It can be done.

I know that you would just be happy with more 4 stars, but my original post was not in response to anyone in particular. I am just sharing what I believe to Barnes' current recruiting philosophy, and Jay Wright has shown that you need good talent (but not elite professionals) to win.

 

[BigZiti09]

Yes, I am looking at big picture. As in, national championships. I thought the point of all of this is to win a title, considering that we know Barnes can win a regular season championship with 3 stars.

Jay Wright has won 2 of 3 titles without significant and/or elite professional players. That's what I am getting at. It can be done.

I know that you would just be happy with more 4 stars, but my original post was not in response to anyone in particular. I am just sharing what I believe to Barnes' current recruiting philosophy, and Jay Wright has shown that you need good talent (but not elite professionals) to win.

Jay Wright and Rick Barnes aren’t on the same planet in regards to recruiting though.

Would love to recruit like Villanova.

 

[VolGee4]

Jay Wright and Rick Barnes aren’t on the same planet in regards to recruiting though.

Would love to recruit like Villanova.

I didn't say they were. But throw in a Loyola Final Four run and some other recent runs, and it's not all about pro level players. The one and done system has allowed other teams to improve by developing good talent.

I also said that I didn't necessarily know which way was better, but the last few years have shown that developing players over 3-4 years can win a championship.

 

[Special Ed]

... the last few years have shown that developing players over 3-4 years can win a championship.

The last few years?
Have you forgotten that John Wooden won 10 national championships in 12 years (7 straight) back in the day by building his roster with players who stuck around for 3 or 4 seasons?

 

[BigZiti09]

I didn't say they were. But throw in a Loyola Final Four run and some other recent runs, and it's not all about pro level players. The one and done system has allowed other teams to improve by developing good talent.

I also said that I didn't necessarily know which way was better, but the last few years have shown that developing players over 3-4 years can win a championship.

Our path to our ceiling is recruiting 3 and 4 year players.

 

[VolGee4]

The last few years?
Have you forgotten that John Wooden won 10 national championships in 12 years (7 straight) back in the day by building his roster with players who stuck around for 3 or 4 seasons?

That was 50 years ago. I wasn't living then, but I am guessing there wasn't a one and done rule. There were programs that won in the early 90's with veteran teams before the one and done rule. Unless it changes, that's not where we are today. Plus, Nova has 5 players who have redshirted at some point.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Something I just realized...Baylor offered Akinjo right after he got his release from UCONN, for a school supposedly seen as such a big time leader for Tyler Harris I’m not sure why they would be pursuing Akinjo??

 

[BigZiti09]

Something I just realized...Baylor offered Akinjo right after he got his release from UCONN, for a school supposedly seen as such a big time leader for Tyler Harris I’m not sure why they would be pursuing Akinjo??

Ha. Haven’t they heard you have to focus your efforts on one guy until he’s off the board and THEN you move on to your next target? Rookie mistake.