Mass shooting of the week, high school in parkland, FL.

#2,277
#2,277
volfanjustin said:
Then they need to push their unions to push legislators to allow them to arm themselves
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Are you kidding? 90% of teachers, even those in the south, would crap their pants at the sight of a loaded handgun and wouldn't know what to do with it either. I don't think we want to take people that hold guns by two fingers and act like they stink being armed in schools. Create limited entry ways with locked waiting areas after school is in session so that you have to buzz in. AT fencing around schools at a distance that doesn't make them seem closed in, and armed security sufficient to cover the school population. I don't know why the fencing isn't already in place or being worked on. All it would take is for someone to drive a vehicle onto school property loaded with explosives and walk away. More damage and fatalities than any AR could cause.
 
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#2,278
#2,278
luthervol said:
A business makes money. A school costs money. You would have a hard time finding any school administrator who would not love to have the funding for additional security.
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Cut a few associate deputy junior superintendents and the money should be there. Also a good argument for more metro governments.
 
#2,279
#2,279
Grand Vol said:
Schools are mandatory to attend.

Movies, churches and concerts are optional events. Not saying they don't need protection, but it's a huge difference in wanting to go to a certain place and having to go.
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And all produce revenue of a sort.
 
#2,281
#2,281
JCP201 said:
I'm for stricter gun control, but so many won't even hear it.. How much would it cost to install bullet proof doors and windows and doors that lock from the inside?
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You know I don’t actually ever remember seeing anything on hardening the structure. Just monitoring and controlled access. I gotta say it sounds intriguing for the room designs that would support it (not a windowed/glass internal wall).

82_vol_83 I’m guilty of a bit of trolling myself in this thread but I’d like to keep my voice. I don’t disagree just owning my own behavior.
 
#2,283
#2,283
GreyWolf1129 said:
Which will do zip-squat-zilch for those kids when someone gets in, and get in they will, eventually.

GV had it right. Armed, trained security team. Sorry, but that's what it's going to take in the short-term.

If the Big Gun Grab started tomorrow, and it won't (sorry, Luther, but your fantasy does not reality make), it would literally take years to track them all down. Meanwhile, "Next nut job with a gun" sees the handwriting on the wall, and decides to accelerate his/her timeline. And in a month or two, we're right back here wringing our hands and arguing with one another about workable, and non-workable solutions.

It takes a gun to stop a gun. Preferably, a bigger gun than the one you're trying to stop. That simple. Those who have been there, done that, get it. And those who haven't, sadly, don't. It is what it is.

Okay, that yard ain't gonna mow itself, so.....
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I just don't think we need a police force armed to the teeth patrolling our schools. Much like gun control is a no-go for your guys, this idea is a no-go for me.
 
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#2,285
#2,285
82_VOL_83 said:
Are you kidding? 90% of teachers, even those in the south, would crap their pants at the sight of a loaded handgun and wouldn't know what to do with it either. I don't think we want to take people that hold guns by two fingers and act like they stink being armed in schools. Create limited entry ways with locked waiting areas after school is in session so that you have to buzz in. AT fencing around schools at a distance that doesn't make them seem closed in, and armed security sufficient to cover the school population. I don't know why the fencing isn't already in place or being worked on. All it would take is for someone to drive a vehicle onto school property loaded with explosives and walk away. More damage and fatalities than any AR could cause.
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Agree with all that, but if you have 5 teachers who aren't scared of a gun have knowledge and are willing to go through training and retrained every year then I think thats a great start
 
#2,286
#2,286
NorthDallas40 said:
You know I don’t actually ever remember seeing anything on hardening the structure. Just monitoring and controlled access. I gotta say it sounds intriguing for the room designs that would support it (not a windowed/glass internal wall).

82_vol_83 I’m guilty of a bit of trolling myself in this thread but I’d like to keep my voice. I don’t disagree just owning my own behavior.
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Depending on the interior construction (block -vs- sheet rock; interior windows to classrooms; etc), it could be possible, and financially feasible to install panic-locks and bulletproof doors in classrooms. Combine that with an on-campus response capability, and you're headed in the right direction, IMO.

If the classrooms can be "hardened", then a school-wide Panic Alarm, and everybody shelters in place. That's going to make it a lot easier to locate, isolate, and eliminate any active threat.

I'd re-think fire alarm protocols, as well. The Parkland shooter used the fire alarm to create a target-rich environment, and panic, both of which served his purpose. Building construction codes now include strict "burn-through barriers" and multiple egress points, so I'd change to an alarm verification protocol. Any alarm pull sounds in the Main Office, where a staff member is dispatched (or a nearby one alerted) to verify the alarm. If so, a school-wide alarm is sounded. If not, then I'd start a sweep of the building right away. I dunno, but right now a fire alarm simply makes things easy for any active shooter.

Just a couple of ideas. No....I didn't get to the yard yet.
 
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#2,287
#2,287
zeppelin128 said:
I just don't think we need a police force armed to the teeth patrolling our schools. Much like gun control is a no-go for your guys, this idea is a no-go for me.
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I don’t see why not. Outside of homes, a place of work or a place where children are present are the most likely locations for a domestic situation, ie an ex mad and seeking revenge or a custody situation gone bad. Most businesses of any size have security, armed and unarmed. Courthouses and banks aren’t any different. I don’t cower when I see the guys hop off of the Brinks truck, it’s part of their job.

It’s interesting how over the decades a gun in public has gone from a normal thing to a thing to be feared and hidden. I’m not that old and can remember trucks with gun racks in the back. You’d be nuts to do that now, someone would call the cops in a heartbeat.
 
#2,288
#2,288
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
My rights aren’t negotiable.
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I'd bring universal background checks to the table.

And ask that suppressors be taken off the NFA. The Hughes Amendment get a valid vote. The Sporter Clause be reviewed. And the State Department gets out of the FFL business.

In a free market, a P2P transfer can and should be inexpensive.
 
#2,289
#2,289
zeppelin128 said:
I just don't think we need a police force armed to the teeth patrolling our schools. Much like gun control is a no-go for your guys, this idea is a no-go for me.
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In matters of "protecting our people", I often look to the Israelis. They've been doing it since about 30 minutes after the Nation of Israel came into existence, and although some of their measures are harsh by any standard, they work.

For example, the Israeli version of the TSA. They do it completely differently. Anybody remember the last time there was a problem on an El-Al flight?

And schools. Again, they do it completely differently. And it works, even in an environment that is much more dangerous than ours.

I'm not against responsible gun control, and I am wholeheartedly in favor of responsible gun ownership.

In this case, my way could by up and running within 30 days if we got the politicians out of the way and let the professionals do what they do best. "Armed to the teeth" is a bit of an exaggeration here.

In any event, "gun control" will take years to pass and be effectively implemented, and don't be surprised when none of the nut jobs or drug dealers turn theirs in.

So which is more "traumatic" to our youth: seeing armed security wandering around they campus / hallways, or seeing a wacko with an AK walk into their classroom?

There is not, and won't be, an easy fix here. Tough times require tough solutions. Another reason why I favor letting the pros do what they do best.

But again, JMO.
 
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#2,290
#2,290
NorthDallas40 said:
You know I don’t actually ever remember seeing anything on hardening the structure. Just monitoring and controlled access. I gotta say it sounds intriguing for the room designs that would support it (not a windowed/glass internal wall).

82_vol_83 I’m guilty of a bit of trolling myself in this thread but I’d like to keep my voice. I don’t disagree just owning my own behavior.
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I'm all for hardening schools. The fencing around them needs to also be hardened. You may think they are prisons, but in today's society, they should be made bulletproof and bomb proof from the property line.

You don't fall in the troll category simply because you are educated on the subject. LV is just throwing **** out to see if it will stick and then laughing at the responses. Pretty much a troll.
 
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#2,291
#2,291
Grand Vol said:
I'd bring universal background checks to the table.

And ask that suppressors be taken off the NFA. The Hughes Amendment get a valid vote. The Sporter Clause be reviewed. And the State Department gets out of the FFL business.

In a free market, a P2P transfer can and should be inexpensive.
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Person to person?

Should the buyer have to meet the same check that the original purchaser did?
 
#2,292
#2,292
Grand Vol said:
I'd bring universal background checks to the table.

And ask that suppressors be taken off the NFA. The Hughes Amendment get a valid vote. The Sporter Clause be reviewed. And the State Department gets out of the FFL business.

In a free market, a P2P transfer can and should be inexpensive.
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UBGCs can only lead to mandatory registration.
 
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#2,293
#2,293
Who pays for all of this security? I don't want to.

And we'll spend money for this security but not for schools today that are broke and offer kids a sub par education? Guess I'd rather put that money toward their education versus protection against a threat 99.9%+ wont ever see.
 
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#2,295
#2,295
GreyWolf1129 said:
In matters of "protecting our people", I often look to the Israelis. They've been doing it since about 30 minutes after the Nation of Israel came into existence, and although some of their measures are harsh by any standard, they work.

For example, the Israeli version of the TSA. They do it completely differently. Anybody remember the last time there was a problem on an El-Al flight?

And schools. Again, they do it completely differently. And it works, even in an environment that is much more dangerous than ours.

I'm not against responsible gun control, and I am wholeheartedly in favor of responsible gun ownership.

In this case, my way could by up and running within 30 days if we got the politicians out of the way and let the professionals do what they do best. "Armed to the teeth" is a bit of an exaggeration here.

In any event, "gun control" will take years to pass and be effectively implemented, and don't be surprised when none of the nut jobs or drug dealers turn theirs in.

So which is more "traumatic" to our youth: seeing armed security wandering around they campus / hallways, or seeing a wacko with an AK walk into their classroom?

There is not, and won't be, an easy fix here. Tough times require tough solutions. Another reason why I favor letting the pros do what they do best.

But again, JMO.
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We surrendered enough liberties with the Patriot Act.

If we go down this road it will spiral. We can not continue to militarize our cops, schools, etc. if we expect to retain any sense of personal freedom. When you give power, they don't give it back.

Israel should never be a model for the US.
 
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#2,296
#2,296
zeppelin128 said:
We surrendered enough liberties with the Patriot Act.

If we go down this road it will spiral. We can not continue to militarize our cops, schools, etc. if we expect to retain any sense of personal freedom. When you give power, they don't give it back.

Israel should never be a model for the US.
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Good grief, would you stop with this police militarization nonsense?
 
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