Jarrett Guarantano

[whobethis16]

Your other post was also super long so I wont quote that one but you made a few bad points.

I think it stupid to compare their first two starts. But if you want to try to do that , even though its dumb, Dobbs looks better.

Number two Dobbs did not start vs Bama. His first two starts he completed 63% vs the number two and number 5 team. Dormady 60% vs two scrubs.

And you know the reason there was no competition was not just that Dobbs was a returning starter but also the much, much, much better player. This year that wasn't the case.

As for this post.

Qd did win the job. He is better at this point than JG. I still think JG has more talent. JG isn't ready yet. QD hasn't played well so far but should be the starter. Anyone that thinks QD has played great or well enough to beat good teams is wrong. That is not bashing either one.

Neither one looks good enough to beat ranked teams right now. Both have talent and potential.

As long as he has a winning record against USC and Vandy.

 

[whobethis16]

That is my point that Dormady isn't perfect and others have crowned him the next great QB in Vols history.

All I am saying is he has had a slow start and will get better, but he needs to improve before SEC play for us to compete in the east! That is it, I like Dormady, I think he can develop into a good QB, Great QB we will have to wait and see.

No one on here can say Dormady is great! it is just a fact, that isn't a knock on Dormady he has only made 2 starts. But sitting for 2 years I just expected him to be more game ready, I hope my worries are wrong and he destroys Florida this Sat. but I am not the only person who fears his play against SEC defenses right now!

More game ready? 0 turnovers, 0 sacks, 2 TDs, 200+ yards, what more do you want?

 

[johnrlansford]

More game ready? 0 turnovers, 0 sacks, 2 TDs, 200+ yards, what more do you want?

I like how you didn count the 2 turnovers in game 2, must have not fit your agenda.

Against 1 of the worst defense we will see this year, that is my point the meat of the schedule is coming up and he hasn't shown he is ready for SEC defenses yet.

I am not knocking his stats, it is his decision making that will bite him against SEC defenses, I hope he improves and I am wrong because Florida's secondary is good and unforgiving to average QBs (IF that is what Dormady really is, I hope he isn't).

 

[whobethis16]

I like how you didn count the 2 turnovers in game 2, must have not fit your agenda.

Against 1 of the worst defense we will see this year, that is my point the meat of the schedule is coming up and he hasn't shown he is ready for SEC defenses yet.

I am not knocking his stats, it is his decision making that will bite him against SEC defenses, I hope he improves and I am wrong because Florida's secondary is good and unforgiving to average QBs (IF that is what Dormady really is, I hope he isn't).

His pick was horrible. His fumble very clearly was because his blocker couldn't even come close to doing his job.

But, I'll tell you what, the minute he decides to force a throw and gets it picked instead of throwing it away or escape a sack, I'll come on here and say how horrible he is.

But the fact that you can't even say "hey, he's started 2 games, attempted a measly 39 passes in his career prior to his first start, maybe he needs to get his feet wet before judging" is ridiculous.

 

[k-town_king]

And... I gave you the actual numbers proving that he doesn't. But the you were right to say they weren't comparable... then proceeded with another effort to discredit Dormady by making the comparison you just said couldn't be made.

Dobbs went in the 3rd series vs Bama iirc.

So you want to parse the facts again to make your point... based on a comparison... that you said couldn't be made?

No. We don't "know" that. We've seen QD as the starter for 2 games. Of course this also depends on how you define "much better player". Was QD as a true Fr a better version of Dobbs as a rising Jr than Dobbs? Not close. That's as much of a oranges and apples comparison as you can make. OTOH, if you had attempted to force Dobbs to be a pocket passer and placing the ball into tight windows... Dobbs wouldn't have fared well.

At the point he joined the Vols there were two things that really meant QD would not compete with Dobbs for the job in any serious way.

One, Dobbs is a very talented, hardworking, and intelligent guy who had a two year head start including several starts. Two, UT had already started customizing the O around Dobbs' strengths and weaknesses. UT has not had a QB since Shuler who could have competed with Dobbs on those terms.

QD did win the job. He is better than JG "at this point" which is all that matters... and in the EXACT same sense that Dobbs was better than QD at this point of QD's Fr year.

QD has played well so far. Not perfect. Still a great deal of room to improve... but MUCH better than you and a few others pretend. Since the first half of GT which should be at least a little understandable considering it was his first start, first play in real competition,... and the dropped passes.... QD has completed around 70% of his passes. He's frankly made a few precision throws that Dobbs didn't make... either he couldn't or wouldn't risk it. But again, that IS QD's game and was NOT Dobbs' game.

Has he played well enough to beat good teams? He beat a good team by completing 76% of his 2nd half pass attempts. He "managed" the O and led his team to a come back win.

So yeah... by declaring that you "know" he hasn't played well enough to beat good teams... is NOTHING BUT bashing. He may flop completely vs UF. The receivers may get the drops again. Anything can happen. But so far, QD hasn't played NEARLY as poorly as you want to believe.... and he is more talented than you want to believe.


If the OL, WR's, and RB's do their part... QD has played well enough for the O to compete with good teams. I suspect that JG would do OK as well. Neither is going to carry the team at this point IMO.

He didn't start vs Bama period.

QD has not shown he can fit passes in to tight windows when pressured and facing a decent defense. Please show where he has proven his "precision" ability Dobbs doesn't have. He hasn't been as accurate his whole career or this year as Dobbs was. He had one good one vs a jv defensive back last game. Please show all of these "precision" passes. Throwing as many or more bad passes as good doesn't scream precision to me.

Dobbs put plenty of passes in tight spaces against NFL talent. He made plenty of "NFL" throws. That is why he was drafted. Let's hope QD starts making NFL throws so he can be drafted too.

I think the gap between JR Dobbs and FR QD is way larger than the gap between these two players who are one year apart. Also the player with less experience was ranked way higher and people who watch them in practice thinks has a bigger arm and more potential this time.

They didn't customize the o for Dobbs. Butch is running the exact same o with the exact same plays he has been running. The only thing that has changed is the ability to execute them.

GT is not a good team. A good defense has a pick six and 2 or 3 other picks the opening game. They are a 6-6/7-5 type ACC team. He has not played well enough to beat a good team. He hasn't shown the gifts you speak of. Hopefully he improves so we can beat some real teams.

 

[whobethis16]

He didn't start vs Bama period.

QD has not shown he can fit passes in to tight windows when pressured and facing a decent defense. Please show where he has proven his "precision" ability Dobbs doesn't have. He hasn't been as accurate his whole career or this year as Dobbs was. He had one good one vs a jv defensive back last game. Please show all of these "precision" passes. Throwing as many or more bad passes as good doesn't scream precision to me.

Dobbs put plenty of passes in tight spaces against NFL talent. He made plenty of "NFL" throws. That is why he was drafted. Let's hope QD starts making NFL throws so he can be drafted too.

I think the gap between JR Dobbs and FR QD is way larger than the gap between these two players who are one year apart. Also the player with less experience was ranked way higher and people who watch them in practice thinks has a bigger arm and more potential this time.

They didn't customize the o or Dobbs. Butch is running the exact same o with the exact same plays he has been running. The only thing that has changed is the ability to execute them.

GT is not a good team. A good defense has a pick six and 2 or 3 other picks the opening game. They are a 6-6/7-5 type ACC team. He has not played well enough to beat a good team. He hasn't shown the gifts you speak of. Hopefully he improves so we can beat some real teams.

He hasn't played what you deem a "good defense" yet, so you have no way of definitively saying whether or not he can.

 

[whobethis16]

He didn't start vs Bama period.

QD has not shown he can fit passes in to tight windows when pressured and facing a decent defense. Please show where he has proven his "precision" ability Dobbs doesn't have. He hasn't been as accurate his whole career or this year as Dobbs was. He had one good one vs a jv defensive back last game. Please show all of these "precision" passes. Throwing as many or more bad passes as good doesn't scream precision to me.

Dobbs put plenty of passes in tight spaces against NFL talent. He made plenty of "NFL" throws. That is why he was drafted. Let's hope QD starts making NFL throws so he can be drafted too.

I think the gap between JR Dobbs and FR QD is way larger than the gap between these two players who are one year apart. Also the player with less experience was ranked way higher and people who watch them in practice thinks has a bigger arm and more potential this time.

They didn't customize the o for Dobbs. Butch is running the exact same o with the exact same plays he has been running. The only thing that has changed is the ability to execute them.

GT is not a good team. A good defense has a pick six and 2 or 3 other picks the opening game. They are a 6-6/7-5 type ACC team. He has not played well enough to beat a good team. He hasn't shown the gifts you speak of. Hopefully he improves so we can beat some real teams.

His accuracy so far this year is better than 2 of Dobbs' years, and his career is less than 1%. Plus, based on percentage, his best so far is better than Dobbs' best.

 

[k-town_king]

He hasn't played what you deem a "good defense" yet, so you have no way of definitively saying whether or not he can.

That is why I said. "Hasn't shown" it yet. I was responding to SJT also. He claims Dormady can do that. Him and others have made all kinds of outlandish claims about Q's passing. All I'm asking is where did anyone see this? It definitely wasn't in a game. I hope he can do all of that one day.

 

[whobethis16]

That is why I said. "Hasn't shown" it yet. I was responding to SJT also. He claims Dormady can do that. Him and others have made all kinds of outlandish claims about Q's passing. All I'm asking is where did anyone see this? It definitely wasn't in a game. I hope he can do all of that one day.

I think he can. He's got the arm, he's got the smarts. He's going to surprise you, given the working parts around him do their jobs.

 

[sjt18]

That is why I said. "Hasn't shown" it yet. I was responding to SJT also. He claims Dormady can do that. Him and others have made all kinds of outlandish claims about Q's passing. All I'm asking is where did anyone see this? It definitely wasn't in a game. I hope he can do all of that one day.

By definition, the TD on the fade to MC was placing the ball into a tight window. The TD pass to MC on Saturday was fit into a tight window though it didn't actually have to be. The TD to Palmer was in a VERY tight window. The throw that JJ got hurt on was into a tight window.

I can probably find you more examples but those are the really, really easy and obvious ones.

 

[sjt18]

I think he can. He's got the arm, he's got the smarts. He's going to surprise you, given the working parts around him do their jobs.

He already has. But k-town king has blinded himself to anything good that Dormady does. If he can't avoid calling a play good... he gives credit only to the receiver.

A lot has been said about the audible on Saturday but that was an exceptional throw placed into a very, very tight window.

 

[k-town_king]

By definition, the TD on the fade to MC was placing the ball into a tight window. The TD pass to MC on Saturday was fit into a tight window though it didn't actually have to be. The TD to Palmer was in a VERY tight window. The throw that JJ got hurt on was into a tight window.

I can probably find you more examples but those are the really, really easy and obvious ones.

Dobbs made passes like the one to MC many times against better defenses. You said he couldn't do it and one example means Dormady can? QD has thrown a couple in to tight windows. He has thrown more or just as many into coverage though. He hasn't shown he can do it consistently.

 

[sjt18]

If you want a couple of plays to criticize. Watch the 2nd and 3rd O plays vs ISU. Dormady overthrew Palmer on what would have been an easy score. You don't want to throw the long ones short... but those are the opportunities you can't miss. On the next play, QD was probably responsible for choosing that run play and making the line calls.

He had another overthrow on the next possession. UT needs both of those throws.

 

[k-town_king]

He already has. But k-town king has blinded himself to anything good that Dormady does. If he can't avoid calling a play good... he gives credit only to the receiver.

A lot has been said about the audible on Saturday but that was an exceptional throw placed into a very, very tight window.

The td last game was nice. He has had a few good passes. Some to MC the first game were bad passes he made a play on. The wrs dropped a few that were good.

He needs to be more consistent and make better decisions to beat good teams though.

 

[sjt18]

The pass at the 4:35 mark of the 1st qtr was very well thrown in the space between 3 defenders.

 

[sjt18]

The td last game was nice. He has had a few good passes. Some to MC the first game were bad passes he made a play on. The wrs dropped a few that were good.

That was NOT a bad pass. MC made the play he did because of the way the DB played it. Go back and watch the play again.

He needs to be more consistent and make better decisions to beat good teams though.

He has been pretty consistent. Amazingly so for a guy's first two starts and really his first competitive action as a college player. Other than the two throws into the teeth of the coverage to JJ and Wolf in the GT game and the INT... what decisions are you specifically talking about in the passing game? He's missed some deep balls by overthrowing but those are decision problem.s

He did beat a good team with a very, very good 2nd half performance vs GT. We will never know how life would be different for all of us if some of the first half drops were catches. I suspect two things though. Dormady's overall completion rate would be north of 70%.... UT would have scored first and put pressure on GT rather than vice versa. There was a very good opportunity for UT to have been up by 3 scores before PJ figured out what Shoop was doing to him. UT could have then controlled more of the game with their running game. GT would have gotten more like 65 or 70 plays on O which would have made UT's D performance look better.

 

[sjt18]

Take away the 7 or so drops... and QD would be completing somewhere right around 70%.

He would have thrown only 15 incompletions in two games. Three we've already discussed were bad plays on his part. Another one was the batted ball vs ISU. That was maybe his worst play. So four bad plays I think we can agree on out of 55 throws.

Three were missed long passes (had one vs GT too)... all were overthrown which is how you want to miss if you are going to miss. One was a very close overthrow to Wolf in the GT game. That's 4 more.

One incompletion was a throw away.

That is 9 of his incompletions that were not drops. There are 6 more to prove that he's making bad decisions on a consistent basis, staring receivers down, not accurate, etc.

Honestly... I don't think you can do it.

 

[avolation]

SJT since you are always looking for examples to be cited, here you go. I know this one is cherry picked, but we'll start here with the whole "staring down receivers" argument. ONCE AGAIN, I am not saying Dormady sucks, or making a case for JG to start, simply arguing against your claim that he doesn't stare down routes. This ball probably should have either gone to Callaway or been thrown to the back corner of the end zone.

So according to you... any time a QB throws a pass and the DB's react by closing on the receiver... he's thrown into double coverage? By your definition, every QB throws into coverage about 90% of the time... so what's the problem? QD is nothing but a normal QB.

No, DB's being around a receiver doesn't necessarily equate to double coverage. Technically, double coverage means that a CB is playing man on a receiver with a safety providing help over the top. In my opinion the term is applicable when the DB's have as good of a chance of catching (or getting a hand on) the ball as the receiver does. Double coverage means two DB's were in a position to make a play on the ball, triple coverage means three db's and so on. If you don't agree with that, I really don't know what to tell ya.

but it would really be better if you took your biased lenses off and did it for yourself.

I'm a lot of things but biased is not one of them. You can disagree with my opinion if you want to, but my armchair evaluations are strictly based on player's performance.

 

[whobethis16]

SJT since you are always looking for examples to be cited, here you go. I know this one is cherry picked, but we'll start here with the whole "staring down receivers" argument. ONCE AGAIN, I am not saying Dormady sucks, or making a case for JG to start, simply arguing against your claim that he doesn't stare down routes. This ball probably should have either gone to Callaway or been thrown to the back corner of the end zone.

No, DB's being around a receiver doesn't necessarily equate to double coverage. Technically, double coverage means that a CB is playing man on a receiver with a safety providing help over the top. In my opinion the term is applicable when the DB's have as good of a chance of catching (or getting a hand on) the ball as the receiver does. Double coverage means two DB's were in a position to make a play on the ball, triple coverage means three db's and so on. If you don't agree with that, I really don't know what to tell ya.



I'm a lot of things but biased is not one of them. You can disagree with my opinion if you want to, but my armchair evaluations are strictly based on player's performance.

1. Both of us have already said that that pick was horrible. No denying it from anyone.
2. You do realize that there are two receivers on that side of field that Dormady could've been looking at. There's no way you can say with 100% accuracy (100% opinion, yes) that he wasn't looking at the receiver underneath first before looking up. Maybe the TE on the flat was #1 option, it wasn't there, and he looked up.

 

[Power T-Rev]

By definition, the TD on the fade to MC was placing the ball into a tight window. The TD pass to MC on Saturday was fit into a tight window though it didn't actually have to be. The TD to Palmer was in a VERY tight window. The throw that JJ got hurt on was into a tight window.

I can probably find you more examples but those are the really, really easy and obvious ones.

Josh Palmer hasn't caught a TD this season

 

[rdl2k7]

Someone else noticed too. Long td and he's walking around like we just lost the game.

I'm surprised anyone else did. I was sure you were the only one watching the tv as they continually zoomed in and mentioned it.

 

[johnrlansford]

His pick was horrible. His fumble very clearly was because his blocker couldn't even come close to doing his job.

But, I'll tell you what, the minute he decides to force a throw and gets it picked instead of throwing it away or escape a sack, I'll come on here and say how horrible he is.

But the fact that you can't even say "hey, he's started 2 games, attempted a measly 39 passes in his career prior to his first start, maybe he needs to get his feet wet before judging" is ridiculous.

I am not judging him, to say he needs to improve isn't judging him it is assessing him on the body of work i have seen.

He has played average for someone who is a first time starter, but he has a high ceiling I believe and will do well if he can get through the growing pains of being a starting QB.

I have been very consistent in saying he has done good things and bad things, you on the other hand are only in praise of everything when clearly he has made mistakes.

All I am saying is he needs to improve if we want a real shot at winning the east! Nothing more, I am in full support of Dormady to lead this team!

 

[johnrlansford]

SJT since you are always looking for examples to be cited, here you go. I know this one is cherry picked, but we'll start here with the whole "staring down receivers" argument. ONCE AGAIN, I am not saying Dormady sucks, or making a case for JG to start, simply arguing against your claim that he doesn't stare down routes. This ball probably should have either gone to Callaway or been thrown to the back corner of the end zone.

No, DB's being around a receiver doesn't necessarily equate to double coverage. Technically, double coverage means that a CB is playing man on a receiver with a safety providing help over the top. In my opinion the term is applicable when the DB's have as good of a chance of catching (or getting a hand on) the ball as the receiver does. Double coverage means two DB's were in a position to make a play on the ball, triple coverage means three db's and so on. If you don't agree with that, I really don't know what to tell ya.



I'm a lot of things but biased is not one of them. You can disagree with my opinion if you want to, but my armchair evaluations are strictly based on player's performance.

SJT, let me know where exactly Dormady doesn't stare down his receiver on the Interception?

 

[johnrlansford]

1. Both of us have already said that that pick was horrible. No denying it from anyone.
2. You do realize that there are two receivers on that side of field that Dormady could've been looking at. There's no way you can say with 100% accuracy (100% opinion, yes) that he wasn't looking at the receiver underneath first before looking up. Maybe the TE on the flat was #1 option, it wasn't there, and he looked up.

His head is in the direction on of the interception at all times, if he did look at another receiver the Defender didn'y know it...It is a clear stare down!

 

[whobethis16]

SJT, let me know where exactly Dormady doesn't stare down his receiver on the Interception?

How do you know he didn't look at the TE on the flat? He's on the same side of the field, wouldn't have to turn his body to look at him, etc?