Charlottesville white nationalists riots

[theFallGuy]

Most here know I'm not a fan of Trump, nor any politician. With that said, Trump is simply in a no win situation. No matter what he says, the media and the ones who wail at the least little thing, will crucify him.

He condemned both sides, but that wasn't good enough. He came out and condemned the white supremacist, and other hate groups, guess what, that's not good enough. What is the guy to do?

Trump must be the first neo-nazi with a Jewish son-in-law and daughter

 

[Septic]

Not your best effort. I've seen you do better.

You're poking, but not hitting the hornet's nest.

It wasn't an effort, really. That you even believe that it was, I consider a win.

 

[Grand Vol]

It wasn't an effort, really. That you even believe that it was, I consider a win.

A bigly win?

 

[newarkvol]

Georgia DEMOCRATS renewed their call to blow up the face of Stone Mountain that depicts Confederate generals. There is a precedent for these kinds of removal, as the TALIBAN blew up colossal Buddhas carved into cliffs in Afghanistan during its reign.

The desire to purge the past puts you in great company.

This might be a good addition: http://www.ajc.com/news/local/big-b...arving-stone-mountain/3bZVqmkvAoSWBxNzSp37HK/
Rob. e. lee, stonewall, and davis... never contributed anything to my life...as i see it they took up arms against their own country and lost, however...OUTKAST has given me listening pleasure for years :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaFygeknae8
seems like a nice coda for the ATL..

 

[Carl Pickens]

No matter what he said it woulda been wrong in many people's eyes. I despise the guy but this is an issue that is no win for him. I think he's best to just move on from the issue and not say anything else. Sometimes less is more.

He should have also condemned the media for their twisting and biased reporting. What happened to actually reporting the facts without haviing a political agenda?

 

[volfanhill]

Georgia DEMOCRATS renewed their call to blow up the face of Stone Mountain that depicts Confederate generals. There is a precedent for these kinds of removal, as the TALIBAN blew up colossal Buddhas carved into cliffs in Afghanistan during its reign.

The desire to purge the past puts you in great company.

Why does Isis/ the taliban want them destroyed vs why groups want the celebration of southern generals destroyed. I don't agree with either one but it might surprise you the difference in the groups.

 

[Sin City Vol]

https://www.yelp.com/biz/queen-of-sheba-oklahoma-city
I doubt GV is a kitfo kind of guy... my gf cooks the cuisine often... a good place to start:http://www.ethiopianspices.com/html/contact.asp

I was just in Newark, flew in and went into NY

 

[Sin City Vol]

He should have also condemned the media for their twisting and biased reporting. What happened to actually reporting the facts without haviing a political agenda?

Unfortunately all media has become so biased that we're never gonna get the whole truth out of them.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Unfortunately all media has become so biased that we're never gonna get the whole truth out of them.

What does your wife think about all of this?

 

[volger]

very long--and I am not familiar with their goals other than to counter the fascists and white supremacists that have been enabled by Trump.

I repeat, this was all started by Trump and Bannon. And yet conservatives are always trying to create this moral equivalency between right-wing hate groups and BS and left-wing groups; they likewise like to pretend that Trump is no worse that Obama--complete and utter nonsense. I'm willing to bet that antifa is primarily focused on countering the white supremacists emboldened by Trump. There are other strains in this well--Confederate diehards who--in 2017!---still want to cling to the Lost Cause.

There is also an economic component to all this polariization and hostility--as there are a LOT of people on both ends of the political spectrum who have been hit hard by financial hardship--by crap jobs and low pay--and they are angry about it. Some of the voted for Trump--and some are Democrats. For all the caterwauling that conservatives do about socialism, most of which is nonsense, the real problem is that this country has been very badly served by capitalism. Income inequality creates the very social instability that we are seeing in this country--and income inequality has grown dramatically over the last 30 years. While conservative blockheads pretend that the poor are layabouts, the fact is there there are millions of people who work their tails off every day and yet make no money. Can you image living in America in 2017--a high cost country--and still millions are paid $10 an hour--and many even less that that. And they are not all 17-year high school kids working their first jobs. The middle class has been likewise screwed by big business and the private sector--it is why the middle class in America has SHRUNK. And yet Republican pretend there is no problem--let's give the rich a tax cut! The Trump administration is full of the vulture capitalists who've got filthy rich screwing ordinary Americans. I've digressed a bit--but economics factor into this volatility as well.

But the most pressing problem is that we have a divisive president--and please don't tell me Obama was divisive as well. I'm tired of hearing this "whataboutism" argument from conservatives. As somebody at NPR pointed out today, "whataboutism" started as Russian cold-war propaganda. It was how the Russians tried to justify all the problems in their country--but saying, "but what about TK and TK in America." And it's what I hear on this board constantly--but what about antifa and what about Obama and what about Clinton. The real problem is Trump--he's the president and supposed leader of this country. But in fact he's a deranged man.

Take a nap highchair.

 

[Sin City Vol]

What does your wife think about all of this?

She doesn't watch the news

 

[newarkvol]

I was just in Newark, flew in and went into NY

Flying out from EWR?

 

[JCP201]

This is going to seem odd coming from a Liberal but this is how I feel:

Leave the statues in place. Like it or not they are part of our history. They were put in place by our American ancestors who believed they deserved to be there. They represent so much more than just a person. They represent the events of a place and time in human history. When we look at ancient Egyptian, Greek or Roman statues we don't overly obsess about the person depicted. What we really think about and try to understand is the civilization and people of the time. Many of these ancient statues are of some very bad people who had them erected themselves to honor themselves. But because someone preserved history we are able to understand this. We don't tear them down now because of who they were and fortunately they didn't either.

No, our statutes need to stand. The generals and soldiers on those pedestals were just people fighting for what they believed in at the time. If we are fortunate and don't destroy ourselves our descendants and future historians will be able to put it all in perspective.

If nothing else give people the chance to see them and wonder about how things were for themselves.

This is the best argument I've read ANYWHERE in favor of keeping the statues. It would be much better received and definitely more sensible then "Oh Lawd, they are going to take down the Jefferson Memorial and Washington Monument next!!"

I have felt for a while that the confederate statues are better placed in museums or on Civil war battlefields. Putting myself in other men's shoes, I would not feel very welcomed at (For example) a courthouse which has a statue glorifying a guy whose main claim to fame is treason and killing others to keep slavery in the South.

But yeah, thanks for giving me an actual good argument for the other side.

 

[FLVOL_79]

I am a fan of Teddy Roosevelt, so any group that criticizes him is completely misguided, in my opinion. He was a militarist and a bit of a hothead--but he was very intelligent and honest and fair, for a man of his time, and was one of the great progressives in this country (as a Republican). After he invited Booker T. Washington to the White House, he was subjected to vicious and hateful rhetoric from newspaper editorialists and others in the South--vicious.

T. Roosevelt, where he alive today, would be APPALLED by the current state of the Republican Party in this country--and he'd be shocked at the nasty idiot who is now running the country. Roosevelt fought against corporate consolidation and for a "square deal" for American workers--and of course he was a major conservationist. I'm pretty sure he'd be disturbed by the anti-environmentalists who want to dig up what's left of the planet to make a little more money off of oil and gas. He'd be appalled by the anti-intellectualism and anti-science bias of the political right. That a country that was once led by Teddy Roosevelt is now led by this dangerous moron named Trump is a pretty sad state of affairs.

Teddy Roosevelt would have whipped you within an inch of your life with his riding crop if you spoke to him like you type on this board.

 

[FLVOL_79]

This is going to seem odd coming from a Liberal but this is how I feel:

Leave the statues in place. Like it or not they are part of our history. They were put in place by our American ancestors who believed they deserved to be there. They represent so much more than just a person. They represent the events of a place and time in human history. When we look at ancient Egyptian, Greek or Roman statues we don't overly obsess about the person depicted. What we really think about and try to understand is the civilization and people of the time. Many of these ancient statues are of some very bad people who had them erected themselves to honor themselves. But because someone preserved history we are able to understand this. We don't tear them down now because of who they were and fortunately they didn't either.

No, our statutes need to stand. The generals and soldiers on those pedestals were just people fighting for what they believed in at the time. If we are fortunate and don't destroy ourselves our descendants and future historians will be able to put it all in perspective.

If nothing else give people the chance to see them and wonder about how things were for themselves.

Good post.

 

[rtb1983]

I'm still waiting for the great pyramids to be pulled down and destroyed.

 

[theFallGuy]

The New York Times reports that University of Arkansas professor Kyle Quinn was over 1,000 miles away in Bentonville, Arkansas Friday night with his wife while having dinner and viewing an art exhibition, but left-wing Zealots claimed he marched with a white supremacist in Charlottesville at the time.



On Saturday, Quinn woke up to discover that internet activists were naming him as one of the neo-Nazis at the Charlottesville riot. They had incorrectly identified his picture from video footage and posted it all over social media with his name, accusing him of being part of the racist crowd.

I swear social media is becoming more and more of a cesspool. I thought Facebook was going to filter fake news for us.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Let's be clear--this has all been started by Trump and Bannon and the little band of fascists in the White House. Trump used inflammatory rhetoric and lies throughout his campaign; he encouraged people at his campaign events to beat up protesters and ridiculed the media. He is a dangerous and disturbing man without an once of integrity.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/trumps-unwillingness-denounce-violence-political-strategy/

This has been going on for decades. We went through a round of it in the 90s when several states removed Confederate flags from prominent public spaces in advance of the ATL Olympic Games, an action that probably added to the Republican takeover of Southern politics. More recently, it was reignited by the Charleston church shootings. Personally, I am proud to be a direct lineal descendant of a veteran of the 1st Miss. Cavalry from Panola County. However, I don't worship idols and if a political majority want to remove a monument in a peaceful and lawful manner I'm not going to take up arms over it.

 

[newyorkvol]

This is going to seem odd coming from a Liberal but this is how I feel:

Leave the statues in place. Like it or not they are part of our history. They were put in place by our American ancestors who believed they deserved to be there. They represent so much more than just a person. They represent the events of a place and time in human history. When we look at ancient Egyptian, Greek or Roman statues we don't overly obsess about the person depicted. What we really think about and try to understand is the civilization and people of the time. Many of these ancient statues are of some very bad people who had them erected themselves to honor themselves. But because someone preserved history we are able to understand this. We don't tear them down now because of who they were and fortunately they didn't either.

No, our statutes need to stand. The generals and soldiers on those pedestals were just people fighting for what they believed in at the time. If we are fortunate and don't destroy ourselves our descendants and future historians will be able to put it all in perspective.

If nothing else give people the chance to see them and wonder about how things were for themselves.

I like the way you put this.

I often wonder how we in our enlightened, privileged 21st century western civilization perspective can be so judgmental of people of different historical times and cultures.

 

[theFallGuy]

I like the way you put this.

I often wonder how we in our enlightened, privileged 21st century western civilization perspective can be so judgmental of people of different historical times and cultures.

Agree with this. It's likely in 100 years people will look back and judge us as well.

 

[McDad]

This is going to seem odd coming from a Liberal but this is how I feel:

Leave the statues in place. Like it or not they are part of our history. They were put in place by our American ancestors who believed they deserved to be there. They represent so much more than just a person. They represent the events of a place and time in human history. When we look at ancient Egyptian, Greek or Roman statues we don't overly obsess about the person depicted. What we really think about and try to understand is the civilization and people of the time. Many of these ancient statues are of some very bad people who had them erected themselves to honor themselves. But because someone preserved history we are able to understand this. We don't tear them down now because of who they were and fortunately they didn't either.

No, our statutes need to stand. The generals and soldiers on those pedestals were just people fighting for what they believed in at the time. If we are fortunate and don't destroy ourselves our descendants and future historians will be able to put it all in perspective.

If nothing else give people the chance to see them and wonder about how things were for themselves.

Excellent post, MtL.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

A couple of things, those that vandalize statues should be charged. If the communities in which they stand want to vote to take them down... take them down. If they want to let them stand. So be it. I can understand both sides of this argument, let the process handle it.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

A couple of things, those that vandalize statues should be charged. If the communities in which they stand want to vote to take them down... take them down. If they want to let them stand. So be it. I can understand both sides of this argument, let the process handle it.

I agree.

I could care less what happens to the statues. Nobody has the right to destroy property that doesn't belong to them.

 

[jvol1]

A lot of the statues were put up as a way of memorializing the racist values of the confederacy by racists themselves -- sort of the noble resistance. Only northern military heroes should be preserved both because they won the war and because there's no question that slavery and the economic system the south fought for were evil.

 

[joevol33]

I agree.

I could care less what happens to the statues. Nobody has the right to destroy property that doesn't belong to them.

Exactly how I feel, except for the saban statue. They should smash it to pieces.