How well does Butch recruit?

[BeecherVol]

I think I may have said this to you the other day but pardon me for reiterating.
I hated Dooley with an absolute passion, almost unnatural for a coach.
Even though I stated so several times (on gvx), I still was accused of being a defender of his.
The only thing I can figure is because I put discussion of the team and their well wishes way above my personal hate for him.

So I absolutely agree, you don't have to be a supporter of the coach to be a fan of the team. BUT (can't stress this enough)... BUT, if you truly care more about the team than the coach, either way, you're going to focus more on the team than the coach. Which is exactly why you care more about a great commitment than you ever would a catchphrase in a press conference. One should always mean more than the other.

And that's interesting.

Why would you "hate" Dooley?
He took a job offer he shouldn't have had the chance to have given his credentials at the time. La Tech to UT? Sounds misplaced to me.

 

[Behr]

I just want to win. If I'm completely done with Jones, I do the same that I did with Dooley. Answer honestly when asked and try to focus on the team.
Not much different than now.

I would still correct people when they lied about Jones, same as I did with DD. The guy was horrible at almost everything but his general idea of offense was good. Always lack of control and miscommunication, too many players Etc.. but the general scheme was good.

Yea, I guess I was just trying to figure out what support actually means when it comes to this subject.

Obviously in that scenario, I would still want us to win, so by default, does that mean I support Butch, even though Im not happy with him?

Haha, just thinking out loud.

 

['Boro-vol]

Yea, I agree with that. I got sidetracked and forgot to mention something similar to Boro.

I can understand why some can't get behind Butch, I respect their opinion, even if I disagree. But why does it seem to be okay for some to say Im more loyal to Butch than the program just because my opinion is he might be able to get it done, but because their opinion is he won't get it done and they constantly mock him or talk trash about him and someone says you're not a true fan, it's not okay?

I hope I explained that well enough.

If you're reading this Boro, can you help me out ?

All I can say to that is that I've only ever made that assertion, in defense, to those that have suggested that I support the coach or go be a Bama fan. There are plenty of instances of pro-Butch fans tying "real fandom" to only being being supportive of anything or anyone clad in Pantone 151. I'm sorry, I just disagree with that premise as an alumni and lifelong fan. (I don't choose my politicians or party affiliation over the health of the country either.) I want what I believe is best for the University and associated programs, not what's best for Butch Jones. Sometimes those things are congruent, and sometimes they're not.

Make any sense Behr?

 

[chargervol]

And that's interesting.

Why would you "hate" Dooley?
He took a job offer he shouldn't have had the chance to have given his credentials at the time. La Tech to UT? Sounds misplaced to me.

Not at all.
I hated him because of being a jackass to local coaches who would always support UT and sent players our way.
I hated him 4 the way he treated former Vols.
Absolutely nothing to do with him taking the job. Which I'm assuming you're referring to another poster not me anyway.

Which ironically would make your post misplaced, wouldn't you say?

 

[BeecherVol]

Oh and it is Shoop that I have been most critical of and I got raked over the coals by many who think he is all that. He needs to prove that in 2017.

And if someone brought up the fact he's here because Jones thought and publicly said he was a great coach all hell would break loose.

Put your boots on the irony is deep.

It is interesting that UT seem to upgrade 2 spots on the D staff since he's been here.

 

[BeecherVol]

Not at all.
I hated him because of being a jackass to local coaches who would always support UT and sent players our way.
I hated him 4 the way he treated former Vols.
Absolutely nothing to do with him taking the job. Which I'm assuming you're referring to another poster not me anyway.

Which ironically would make your post misplaced, wouldn't you say?

Not in the least.

If you coached at La Tech and turned down UT it might make you the dumbest som btch breathing.

May be the dumb SOBs that hired him?

 

[chargervol]

Not in the least.

If you coached at La Tech and turned down UT it might make you the dumbest som btch breathing.

May be the dumb SOBs that hired him?

Sure?
Wasn't part of the why someone takes a job discussion. So honestly have no clue what this could possibly have to do with my post. But hey, hot dogs and all.

 

[volfan102455]

Something else I'm thinking about with this support thing.

What would it take for you to be done with Butch? Let's say it's 6-6 this year and that's what happens, and we were ugly in the 6 wins.

You decide its time for him to go. You're done. Currie decides he stays. Do you support him next year?

Does this imply you don't support the players on the team? Sorry but I could never withhold support of the players on the team.

And I don't see how you can support one and not the other - because to not support the coach implies you want the team to lose so that the coach will be fired. And if you are wanting that to happen you are not supporting the players.

 

[BeecherVol]

Sure?
Wasn't part of the why someone takes a job discussion. So honestly have no clue what this could possibly have to do with my post. But hey, hot dogs and all.

Why Not?

I've been accused of hating Jones more than once, all the while saying he would have been a stupid $umb!tc# if he stayed at Cincinatti or gone to Colorado with UT on the table. And I didnt think he was capable then and that hasn't changed. Just thought it funny I guess.

I done et.
Thanks tho.

 

[BeecherVol]

Does this imply you don't support the players on the team? Sorry but I could never withhold support of the players on the team.

And I don't see how you can support one and not the other - because to not support the coach implies you want the team to lose so that the coach will be fired. And if you are wanting that to happen you are not supporting the players.

Not sure why it shocks me any more.

Did you tear your clothes in rage after Dooley was canned?

How did you ever move on.

 

[chargervol]

Why Not?

I've been accused of hating Jones more than once, all the while saying he would have been a stupid $umb!tc# if he stayed at Cincinatti or gone to Colorado with UT on the table. And I didnt think he was capable then and that hasn't changed. Just thought it funny I guess.

I done et.
Thanks tho.

Ok, that definitely explains why I was misguided saying fans should always show appreciation for the team even if they dislike the coach.
Cause, Colorado and such.

Thank you too. Always interesting.

 

[Behr]

All I can say to that is that I've only ever made that assertion, in defense, to those that have suggested that I support the coach or go be a Bama fan. There are plenty of instances of pro-Butch fans tying "real fandom" to only being being supportive of anything or anyone clad in Pantone 151. I'm sorry, I just disagree with that premise as an alumni and lifelong fan. (I don't choose my politicians or party affiliation over the health of the country either.) I want what I believe is best for the University and associated programs, not what's best for Butch Jones. Sometimes those things are congruent, and sometimes they're not.

Make any sense Behr?

Yea it makes total sense, but I don't think it answered my question.

But to be honest, it really doesn't matter. It was one of those questions that likely can't be answered and probably shouldn't have been asked.

I get caught up in trying to understand things sometimes and go a little too far.

A bunch of fawkin wining would stop most of this crap.

 

['Boro-vol]

Ok, that definitely explains why I was misguided saying fans should always show appreciation for the team even if they dislike the coach.
Cause, Colorado and such.

Thank you too. Always interesting.

I fully agree with your sentiment. You never see me bag on the team or the University....only the professionals in charge of both. Those kids come here to sweat and bleed for an education. The coaches and administrators, unless they have an alumni connection, are here for the $$.

I love the school and the team....the coaches and admins have to earn that honor.

 

['Boro-vol]

A bunch of fawkin wining would stop most of this crap.

It would certainly quiet me down. I may never be a big fan of Butch, may never appreciate his approach, but I'll be the first to shut my yap if he starts to unexpectedly overachieve.

 

[Behr]

Does this imply you don't support the players on the team? Sorry but I could never withhold support of the players on the team.

And I don't see how you can support one and not the other - because to not support the coach implies you want the team to lose so that the coach will be fired. And if you are wanting that to happen you are not supporting the players.

You know, I'm not in the mood for anymore stupid siht tonight. I've posted long enough for you to know where I stand on this, if not, go up about 7 posts.


Edit: I apologize for being a prick.

 

[chargervol]

I fully agree with your sentiment. You never see me bag on the team or the University....only the professionals in charge of both. Those kids come here to sweat and bleed for an education. The coaches and administrators, unless they have an alumni connection, are here for the $$.

I love the school and the team....the coaches and admins have to earn that honor.

I actually said show appreciation.
As in post about that more than complaining about a coach. Not saying anything about you, just feels like my comment is being re-worded.

Anyone here that spends more posts complaining about the coach than supporting the team, has absolutely no right to play the "because I'm a fan of UT, not a coach" card.
Seems more of a hater of a coach than a fan of the team, Imo.

 

['Boro-vol]

I actually said show appreciation.
As in post about that more than complaining about a coach. Not saying anything about you, just feels like my comment is being re-worded.

Anyone here that spends more posts complaining about the coach than supporting the team, has absolutely no right to play the "because I'm a fan of UT, not a coach" card.
Seems more of a hater of a coach than a fan of the team, Imo.

I don't think the two have to be exclusive. Of course I also don't think anyone on a message board can accurately assess what type of fan another is.

I know what you mean, and balance is needed. I try to give it when warranted, especially during the season. I want Butch gone, because I think ultimately that is what is best for the team. I don't WANT them to lose to achieve my selfish desire however. Wanting an outcome, and wanting what causes that outcome to actually happen are two different things.

** I should add...it's my sincerest desire for Butch to make me reassess my opinion. That would only mean good things are happening.

 

[BeecherVol]

Ok, that definitely explains why I was misguided saying fans should always show appreciation for the team even if they dislike the coach.
Cause, Colorado and such.

Thank you too. Always interesting.

It is. Going to hating a coach just seemed interesting to me since I'm not sure I've seen anyone use that exact word to describe their feelings for Jones even tho I'm sure it waa somewhat implied.

Dooley sucked but I don't hate him for being here. No different than I don't think Jones is the man or hate him for taking it either. Both got a shot that neither earned imo.

 

[volfan102455]

Not sure why it shocks me any more.

Did you tear your clothes in rage after Dooley was canned?

How did you ever move on.

Didn't care - coaching decisions as well as recruiting decisions are not under my control. So I support the Vols no matter what.

What does bother me is the continued complaining and negativity. I was mad after the Vanderbilt loss but woke up the next morning and the sun was still shining.

Also know from experience that folks most need support from others when things are stacked against them NOT when things are going well. Decided to continue to support my alma mater and moved on from the loss. One night of being mad was long enough.

As for the original question - the current coaching staff is recruiting quite well right now. These kids obviously believe there is something special happening at Tennessee. I'll believe them before I believe anyone on a message board.

 

[BeecherVol]

Didn't care - coaching decisions as well as recruiting decisions are not under my control. So I support the Vols no matter what.

What does bother me is the continued complaining and negativity. I was mad after the Vanderbilt loss but woke up the next morning and the sun was still shining.

Also know from experience that folks most need support from others when things are stacked against them NOT when things are going well. Decided to continue to support my alma mater and moved on from the loss. One night of being mad was long enough.

As for the original question - the current coaching staff is recruiting quite well right now. These kids obviously believe there is something special happening at Tennessee. I'll believe them before I believe anyone on a message board.

Convient considering.

Had Jones been fired after Vandy I'm sure you would have been in full support by Monday.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

Dooley sucked but I don't hate him for being here. No different than I don't think Jones is the man or hate him for taking it either. Both got a shot that neither earned imo.

This is spot on!

 

[81Orange]

Butch is a good recruiter, not great. Tennessee is one of the easiest places in the country try to recruit to and top 15 classes should be relatively easy.

Sorry I don't agree. Yes we have good facilities but so do half the other sec teams. CBJ is a good/great recruiter. Every time we get a player they ask them what brought them to Tennessee the top two responses are family atmosphere and close relationships. The player will mention a position coach and CBJ. They often say they talk almost every day with the coaches. CBJ works his tail off. Orange doesn't draw kids from anywhere but TN.

 

[chargervol]

It is. Going to hating a coach just seemed interesting to me since I'm not sure I've seen anyone use that exact word to describe their feelings for Jones even tho I'm sure it waa somewhat implied.

Dooley sucked but I don't hate him for being here. No different than I don't think Jones is the man or hate him for taking it either. Both got a shot that neither earned imo.

So if I disliked Dooley more than someone dislikes Jones, that makes it natural for them to constantly bash the coach and rarely to never, show appreciation for the team and positives?
Still not seeing a connection.
Honestly, even then it's a figure of speech. I truly hate someone who murders innocent people for example, not any sports related figure. (Obvious figure of speech)

Feels like you're drawing attention to that one word to not address the context.

 

[chargervol]

I don't think the two have to be exclusive. Of course I also don't think anyone on a message board can accurately assess what type of fan another is.

I know what you mean, and balance is needed. I try to give it when warranted, especially during the season. I want Butch gone, because I think ultimately that is what is best for the team. I don't WANT them to lose to achieve my selfish desire however. Wanting an outcome, and wanting what causes that outcome to actually happen are two different things.

** I should add...it's my sincerest desire for Butch to make me reassess my opinion. That would only mean good things are happening.

I do appreciate you addressing my actual point and even respect what you're saying. Honestly, the only difference between us as far as coach, is that I haven't completely decided him being gone is best but I do have those thoughts at times.

I have some hope for him because of his willingness to drop longterm assistants and other changes because he feels it will resolve issues.

And I need convincing on will be "best for the team". I don't have an irrational fear of change,
I have a perfectly rational and supported by history, fear of our boosters being in charge of that change. Lol.
But mostly the possibility Jones can win and I, for the most part, only see basically even trades for truly *attainable coaches.

 

[butchna]

I do appreciate you addressing my actual point and even respect what you're saying. Honestly, the only difference between us as far as coach, is that I haven't completely decided him being gone is best but I do have those thoughts at times.

I have some hope for him because of his willingness to drop longterm assistants and other changes because he feels it will resolve issues.

And I need convincing on will be "best for the team". I don't have an irrational fear of change,
I have a perfectly rational and supported by history, fear of our boosters being in charge of that change. Lol.
But mostly the possibility Jones can win and I, for the most part, only see basically even trades for truly *attainable coaches.

We all get there if it is to be. The poster that demanded Butch be fired before the end of his introductory news conference or the poster that counts the pluses AND minuses with an open mind? We're all "right" at the same time.