How well does Butch recruit?

[butchna]

👍🏻

Bueno

 

[jakez4ut]

This is an area I just don't understand, and believe me I genuinely try.

When I go to or watch a game on TV, it's "Go Vols", I never say Go Butch. Everything in my soul is for the success of the Tennessee Volunteers. Because Butch is the Head coach of them, I feel it's just natural to support him. Its an insult to me to accuse me of being more loyal to Butch, OT anyone, than the program, not that anyone is doing that in this thread.

I could be wrong, but I see one or two posters that go overboard with the Butch support, but I honestly don't think anyone is more loyal to Butch over the program.

I think some of it is reading and writing comprehension and Some of it semi-friendly trolling. If Im wrong, I don't know wtf it is.

It's just weird.

some people are just wired differently, and their world views and perspectives are different.

it's the same reason i could never be a sales guy, and a good, natural sales guy would suck at what i do.

doesn't make either better or worse, just have to know which group you fall in, to be the most productive.:thumbsup:

 

[Behr]

some people are just wired differently, and their world views and perspectives are different.

it's the same reason i could never be a sales guy, and a good, natural sales guy would suck at what i do.

doesn't make either better or worse, just have to know which group you fall in, to be the most productive.:thumbsup:

I understand people being wired differently and your analogy. I don't buy it for this example tho.

But thanks anyway, Champ.

hmy:

 

[jakez4ut]

I understand people being wired differently and your analogy. I don't buy it for this example tho.

But thanks anyway, Champ.

hmy:

:blink:

 

[chargervol]

The obvious answer for his recruiting ability is that it depends on which thread you are in.
A thread about his recruiting, he sucks. And a thread about him as a coach, he somehow recruited enough talent to win a ton more games and the possible Super Bowl.

Same posters, so I guess it changes by the hour.

 

[jakez4ut]

The obvious answer for his recruiting ability is that it depends on which thread you are in.
A thread about his recruiting, he sucks. And a thread about him as a coach, he somehow recruited enough talent to win a ton more games and the possible Super Bowl.

Same posters, so I guess it changes by the hour.

astute observation. :thud:

 

['Boro-vol]

I understand people being wired differently and your analogy. I don't buy it for this example tho.

But thanks anyway, Champ.

hmy:

Hey Behr....I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to clarify. Are you saying that, in your opinion, to be a fan of a given team, you necessarily have to be a supporter of the whomever the coach is?

 

[Behr]

:blink:

Haha, you had to know that was coming.

Sorry, but Im belly laughing.

 

[chargervol]

astute observation. :thud:

I just happened to be catching up on some old threads before coming here.
It was just funny to see so many posters saying "with all that talent", then to come in here and see the same posters saying he can't recruit.

No major objection with either/or, just seams picking one side of the fence would be more believable.

 

[BeecherVol]

Beecher and Boro, you guys are really going to suck at this if we start bringing up Forrest Gump quotes, aren't you?

"What the hell do you mean, life is like a box of chocolates? It's NOTHING like a box of chocolates!"

Is it faster in a recliner or on a couch?

 

['Boro-vol]

I just happened to be catching up on some old threads before coming here.
It was just funny to see so many posters saying "with all that talent", then to come in here and see the same posters saying he can't recruit.

No major objection with either/or, just seams picking one side of the fence would be more believable.

There is zero doubt that Butch has significantly raised the talent level from the Dooley era. We are at least middle of the pack to top 5 in the SEC. it's also undeniable that he has failed to capitalize on that in any meaningful way (divisions, major bowls, or championships). Frequently his classes start out better than they finish, so he's doing something right...and wrong.

I'm just saying I think there is a component of reality to both views.

 

[05_never_again]

See, as a fan I'm not into "developing an opinion." I did a lot of gathering facts, analyzing them, coming to conclusions, and then coming up with an appropriate course of action based on those conclusions when I was on active duty. That's work.

Football is, for me, about fun. It's about our lads and the color orange, and fall Saturdays on the banks of the Tennessee River in a stadium that Neyland built.

I don't want to have to think too hard about all that, and --since I'm not an administrator at UT--I don't have to. Leaving me free to be (wrongly or rightly) supportive and positive and happy, all the time, about our team. And yes, that includes our players, and our coaches, and our cheerleaders, and the groundskeepers, and the AD, and the folks who work for the AD, the whole kit and kaboodle. God bless em all, they're Vols!

That's the angle I come at it from. Takes a lot less work, and is a lot more fun.

I guess it depends on what you call "fun." I'm a fan of Tennessee and want them to win every game they play, but I think it is fun to look at our team/depth chart/recruiting/coaching relative to our competitions', look at the schedule, and try and figure out what a reasonable projection is for each year. It isn't "work;" I just enjoy doing it.

That's more "fun" then just expecting to beat Alabama ever year, wondering why we can't beat Alabama without actually figuring out why, and getting mad when we don't.

 

[chargervol]

There is zero doubt that Butch has significantly raised the talent level from the Dooley era. We are at least middle of the pack to top 5 in the SEC. it's also undeniable that he has failed to capitalize on that in any meaningful way (divisions, major bowls, or championships). Frequently his classes start out better than they finish, so he's doing something right...and wrong.

I'm just saying I think there is a component of reality to both views.

I can agree with most of that. I was actually thinking the extreme views. We had world championship teams but he totally sucks and can't recruit at all. And that being from the same poster.
Like I said, was just catching up on some old threads then came straight here. It's was really funny actually.

Edit: if he is middle-of-the-pack SEC, it's not surprising he hasn't won the SEC. I did think we had the division last year and I'm very disappointed over that.

 

[TNnative]

Beecher and Boro, you guys are really going to suck at this if we start bringing up Forrest Gump quotes, aren't you?

"What the hell do you mean, life is like a box of chocolates? It's NOTHING like a box of chocolates!"

If you are going at them like that, I will stand up for their constitutionally protected right to suck. And also, to remind you of the part about cruel and unusual punishment.

 

['Boro-vol]

I can agree with most of that. I was actually thinking the extreme views. We had world championship teams but he totally sucks and can't recruit at all. And that being from the same poster.
Like I said, was just catching up on some old threads then came straight here. It's was really funny actually.

I've never thought we'd had a championship team under Butch, mostly due to the gimmicky system. But games like Oklahoma, and Bama in '15, and A&M last year showed me we had enough talent sprinkled in to compete. Those games actually had me more excited than some of our unimpressive wins. I wasn't upset afterward. You could almost see the potential. That's why let downs like Bama last year, USC, and Vandy were so frustrating, and the struggles in wins against lesser opponents led many to blame the coach.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

I understand people being wired differently and your analogy. I don't buy it for this example tho.

But thanks anyway, Champ.

hmy:

Lololololololol

 

[chargervol]

I've never thought we'd had a championship team under Butch, mostly due to the gimmicky system. But games like Oklahoma, and Bama in '15, and A&M last year showed me we had enough talent sprinkled in to compete. Those games actually had me more excited than some of our unimpressive wins. I wasn't upset afterward. You could almost see the potential. That's why let downs like Bama last year, USC, and Vandy were so frustrating, and the struggles in wins against lesser opponents led many to blame the coach.

I do agree with the overall point.
I've stated on here a couple of times that the offense let me down here and there, but last year I just keep looking at the defense and what could have been, even if they were just mediocre. That's still on Jones but I would have hired Shoop also.

I honestly believe we win A&M and Vandy just being mediocre on defense. That's a 10-win regular season and everybody's in a much better mood.
But you named games from previous years also and I do agree.

 

['Boro-vol]

I do agree with the overall point.
I've stated on here a couple of times that the offense let me down here and there, but last year I just keep looking at the defense and what could have been, even if they were just mediocre. That's still on Jones but I would have hired Shoop also.

I honestly believe we win A&M and Vandy just being mediocre on defense. That's a 10-win regular season and everybody's in a much better mood.
But you named games from previous years also and I do agree.

Appreciated. It's nice to be able to explain WHY some of hold the opinion we do sometimes.

 

[chargervol]

Appreciated. It's nice to be able to explain WHY some of hold the opinion we do sometimes.

And a returned thanks for allowing me to explain my opinion about the defense.
I'm just hoping we're all surprised this year.

 

[Behr]

Hey Behr....I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to clarify. Are you saying that, in your opinion, to be a fan of a given team, you necessarily have to be a supporter of the whomever the coach is?

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I understand better now. Thanks.

No, I don't think you have to be a supporter of the coach to be a fan of the team.

 

['Boro-vol]

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I understand better now. Thanks.

No, I don't think you have to be a supporter of the coach to be a fan of the team.

Don't know what was said to spur that...but you're welcome. And thanks.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I guess it depends on what you call "fun." I'm a fan of Tennessee and want them to win every game they play, but I think it is fun to look at our team/depth chart/recruiting/coaching relative to our competitions', look at the schedule, and try and figure out what a reasonable projection is for each year. It isn't "work;" I just enjoy doing it.

That's more "fun" then just expecting to beat Alabama ever year, wondering why we can't beat Alabama without actually figuring out why, and getting mad when we don't.

Yeah, I agree with that, and I'm not saying the "fun" way is brainless. I mean, we both spend time here on VolNation, having fun, discussing how the team might do this year and breaking down every bit of news we get on them. So to an extent, I'm with you.

I just don't feel bound to start disliking any player or coach based on what I see.* Does Butch have weaknesses? Absolutely, I've seen his mistakes just as you have. That doesn't leave me feeling compelled to growl about how he better produce soon or else! I'm free to keep it fun, to support him just like the rest of the team, even if I do know that maybe he won't work out as our long term solution.

And that freedom is fun for me, because it leaves me unencumbered as a flag-waving, colors-wearing...fan.


* Unless the weakness is in values. That's just a thing for me, huge believer in values defining character, and character determining how a person should be treated. If Butch was a cheater, or a smartass punk, I'd find myself not liking him real quick. That has happened with other recent coaches, and some players. Remember Kelley Washington?

 

[chargervol]

No, I don't think you have to be a supporter of the coach to be a fan of the team.

I think I may have said this to you the other day but pardon me for reiterating.
I hated Dooley with an absolute passion, almost unnatural for a coach.
Even though I stated so several times (on gvx), I still was accused of being a defender of his.
The only thing I can figure is because I put discussion of the team and their well wishes way above my personal hate for him.

So I absolutely agree, you don't have to be a supporter of the coach to be a fan of the team. BUT (can't stress this enough)... BUT, if you truly care more about the team than the coach, either way, you're going to focus more on the team than the coach. Which is exactly why you care more about a great commitment than you ever would a catchphrase in a press conference. One should always mean more than the other.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

If you are going at them like that, I will stand up for their constitutionally protected right to suck. And also, to remind you of the part about cruel and unusual punishment.

Hehe, okay, okay, no Forrest Gump quotes. Promise.

 

[jakez4ut]

I've never thought we'd had a championship team under Butch, mostly due to the gimmicky system. But games like Oklahoma, and Bama in '15, and A&M last year showed me we had enough talent sprinkled in to compete. Those games actually had me more excited than some of our unimpressive wins. I wasn't upset afterward. You could almost see the potential. That's why let downs like Bama last year, USC, and Vandy were so frustrating, and the struggles in wins against lesser opponents led many to blame the coach.

13 uga as well...