How well does Butch recruit?

#251
#251
'Boro-vol said:
I've never thought we'd had a championship team under Butch, mostly due to the gimmicky system. But games like Oklahoma, and Bama in '15, and A&M last year showed me we had enough talent sprinkled in to compete. Those games actually had me more excited than some of our unimpressive wins. I wasn't upset afterward. You could almost see the potential. That's why let downs like Bama last year, USC, and Vandy were so frustrating, and the struggles in wins against lesser opponents led many to blame the coach.
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Why do you think an offensive system that is very similar to what other teams run is gimmicky? I can get that folks don't like the scheme - and most don't like to see other teams run a similar offense - but gimmicky?? Do you think the offense that most college teams run these days is "gimmicky"?

The games that were lost in 2016 were mostly due to the defense. The same could be said for 2015 - defense could not hold a lead.

Tennessee's problems IMO, are on the defensive side of the house - fix those = win games.

Oh and it is Shoop that I have been most critical of and I got raked over the coals by many who think he is all that. He needs to prove that in 2017.
 
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#252
#252
'Boro-vol said:
Don't know what was said to spur that...but you're welcome. And thanks.
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I was caught up in my own opinion and wasn't being reasonable. It wasn't intentional, just an honest mistake.

If I think the coach is doing more bad for the program than good, I can't support him. As I was typing that, it hit me.

Understand, or do I need to humble myself further. :)
 
#253
#253
volfan102455 said:
Tennessee's problems IMO, are on the defensive side of the house - fix those = win games.
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Absolutely. Our offense has been potent the last two years. Knowing we are going to miss Josh's legs (while acknowledging more than most the value of his throwing arm), I'm really hoping our new starting QB is a real gun-slinger to offset what we'll miss.

But yeah, if Coach Shoop can dial in the mojo that got him hired, we're gonna be hella better than many expect. The D is the key.
 
#254
#254
volfan102455 said:
Why do you think an offensive system that is very similar to what other teams run is gimmicky? I can get that folks don't like the scheme - and most don't like to see other teams run a similar offense - but gimmicky?? Do you think the offense that most college teams run these days is "gimmicky"?

The games that were lost in 2016 were mostly due to the defense. The same could be said for 2015 - defense could not hold a lead.

Tennessee's problems IMO, are on the defensive side of the house - fix those = win games.
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I have a response about the offense but it s to long for my phone.

I'll just say the offense had issues with sustainability last year and consistency.

Scoring...no, thank God.
 
#256
#256
volfan102455 said:
Why do you think an offensive system that is very similar to what other teams run is gimmicky? I can get that folks don't like the scheme - and most don't like to see other teams run a similar offense - but gimmicky?? Do you think the offense that most college teams run these days is "gimmicky"?

The games that were lost in 2016 were mostly due to the defense. The same could be said for 2015 - defense could not hold a lead.

Tennessee's problems IMO, are on the defensive side of the house - fix those = win games.

Oh and it is Shoop that I have been most critical of and I got raked over the coals by many who think he is all that. He needs to prove that in 2017.
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I find it interesting that you picked that out of all I said.

It doesn't really matter though...It's my opinion. I don't like the spread, or how Butch runs it. It hasn't been personnel friendly....just like misusing Hurd for three years....so much so that he eventually becomes a distraction and transfers. We've misused receiver personnel as well.

Most importantly to me....it's not what I view as Tennessee Football. I don't really care who else is running it.
 
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#257
#257
Behr said:
I was caught up in my own opinion and wasn't being reasonable. It wasn't intentional, just an honest mistake.

If I think the coach is doing more bad for the program than good, I can't support him. As I was typing that, it hit me.

Understand, or do I need to humble myself further. :)
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No...not at all. We're good Behr.
 
#259
#259
chargervol said:
I think I may have said this to you the other day but pardon me for reiterating.
I hated Dooley with an absolute passion, almost unnatural for a coach.
Even though I stated so several times (on gvx), I still was accused of being a defender of his.
The only thing I can figure is because I put discussion of the team and their well wishes way above my personal hate for him.

So I absolutely agree, you don't have to be a supporter of the coach to be a fan of the team. BUT (can't stress this enough)... BUT, if you truly care more about the team than the coach, either way, you're going to focus more on the team than the coach. Which is exactly why you care more about a great commitment than you ever would a catchphrase in a press conference. One should always mean more than the other.
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I still think the word support is exaggerated or misused or whatever I'm trying to say and sucking at it. I hated the Dooley hire and wasn't happy about the Butch hire but I wanted Dooley to win and I want Butch to win. If Butch doesn't meet my expectations this year I will be ready to replace him, but if he's still here next season, I still hope he wins. May not like that he's still here, but will hope the Vols win football games.

If that is support, then Im a supporter. If not, I just suck. Haha.
 
#260
#260
'Boro-vol said:
Most importantly to me....it's not what I view as Tennessee Football. I don't really care who else is running it.
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Teams that don't change with the time eventually will fail.

I'm assuming you would rather have a coach who ran the style of football you prefer even if that implies they lose more games than they win.
 
#261
#261
jakez4ut said:
Eh I wasnt paying really close attention...
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Well, it sounded good in my head but not so much in black and white. Anyway, it should have been funny, so laugh and forget about it.
 
#263
#263
Behr said:
I still think the word support is exaggerated or misused or whatever I'm trying to say and sucking at it. I hated the Dooley hire and wasn't happy about the Butch hire but I wanted Dooley to win and I want Butch to win. If Butch doesn't meet my expectations this year I will be ready to replace him, but if he's still here next season, I still hope he wins. May not like that he's still here, but will hope the Vols win football games.

If that is support, then Im a supporter. If not, I just suck. Haha.
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I support the team and to me the team is everyone who is associated with the team (players, student managers, ball boys, coaches, etc.). There is enough bashing of the team from outside sources, to add to it as a fan is just stupid IMO.

Whether or not I support someone when they leave the team depends upon the situation around them leaving.

That said, it is okay to be constructive with criticism - but whining and complaining about the same thing for month after month after month after month is not constructive. And complaining after the the one in charge has made changes to attempt to correct issues is just wrong.
 
#264
#264
volfan102455 said:
Teams that don't change with the time eventually will fail.

I'm assuming you would rather have a coach who ran the style of football you prefer even if that implies they lose more games than they win.
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You have zero quantifiable evidence to back that up. Coaches run what they know. Really good coaches run what suits their personnel. Butch knows a gimmicky mid-major spread so that's what he runs.
 
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#265
#265
Behr said:
I still think the word support is exaggerated or misused or whatever I'm trying to say and sucking at it. I hated the Dooley hire and wasn't happy about the Butch hire but I wanted Dooley to win and I want Butch to win. If Butch doesn't meet my expectations this year I will be ready to replace him, but if he's still here next season, I still hope he wins. May not like that he's still here, but will hope the Vols win football games.

If that is support, then Im a supporter. If not, I just suck. Haha.
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I think exaggerated fits perfectly.
I honestly don't care if someone loves or hates the coach, don't care in the least.
But posters shouldn't be spending all of their time fixated with disgust for a coach, then tell me it's because they care more about the team than other fans.
Then it wouldn't be a stretch that they show happiness or appreciation for the team on occasion.
 
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#266
#266
VFL-82-JP said:
Yeah, I agree with that, and I'm not saying the "fun" way is brainless. I mean, we both spend time here on VolNation, having fun, discussing how the team might do this year and breaking down every bit of news we get on them. So to an extent, I'm with you.

I just don't feel bound to start disliking any player or coach based on what I see.* Does Butch have weaknesses? Absolutely, I've seen his mistakes just as you have. That doesn't leave me feeling compelled to growl about how he better produce soon or else! I'm free to keep it fun, to support him just like the rest of the team, even if I do know that maybe he won't work out as our long term solution.

And that freedom is fun for me, because it leaves me unencumbered as a flag-waving, colors-wearing...fan.


* Unless the weakness is in values. That's just a thing for me, huge believer in values defining character, and character determining how a person should be treated. If Butch was a cheater, or a smartass punk, I'd find myself not liking him real quick. That has happened with other recent coaches, and some players. Remember Kelley Washington?
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So, to condense all of that, you are a sunshine pumper?
 
#267
#267
chargervol said:
I think exaggerated fits perfectly.
I honestly don't care if someone loves or hates the coach, don't care in the least.
But posters shouldn't be spending all of their time fixated with disgust for a coach, then tell me it's because they care more about the team than other fans.
Then it wouldn't be a stretch that they show happiness or appreciation for the team on occasion.
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This is where I'd type something up insulting the people that your post refers too. Then a few minutes later a MOD would have to come in and delete it. So I'll just type this nonsense and say "whaddup charger"?
 
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#269
#269
chargervol said:
I think exaggerated fits perfectly.
I honestly don't care if someone loves or hates the coach, don't care in the least.
But posters shouldn't be spending all of their time fixated with disgust for a coach, then tell me it's because they care more about the team than other fans.
Then it wouldn't be a stretch that they show happiness or appreciation for the team on occasion.
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Yea, I agree with that. I got sidetracked and forgot to mention something similar to Boro.

I can understand why some can't get behind Butch, I respect their opinion, even if I disagree. But why does it seem to be okay for some to say Im more loyal to Butch than the program just because my opinion is he might be able to get it done, but because their opinion is he won't get it done and they constantly mock him or talk trash about him and someone says you're not a true fan, it's not okay?

I hope I explained that well enough.

If you're reading this Boro, can you help me out ?
 
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#270
#270
Lol, I think that movie I watched last night messed me up. I ain't been right all day.
 
#271
#271
Behr said:
Yea, I agree with that. I got sidetracked and forgot to mention something similar to Boro.

I can understand why some can't get behind Butch, I respect their opinion, even if I disagree. But why does it seem to be okay for some to say Im more loyal to Butch than the program just because my opinion is he might be able to get it done, but because their opinion is he won't get it done and they constantly mock him or talk trash about him and someone says you're not a true fan, it's not okay?

I hope I explained that well enough.

If you're reading this Boro, can you help me out ?
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Lol...I'm at the grocery store. Give me 30 min.
 
#272
#272
MustafaRasta said:
This is where I'd type something up insulting the people that your post refers too. Then a few minutes later a MOD would have to come in and delete it. So I'll just type this nonsense and say "whaddup charger"?
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Lol, you're probably right.
Glad you stuck with something I was able to see.

Hope everything is well, always good to hear from you.
 
#273
#273
chargervol said:
I think exaggerated fits perfectly.
I honestly don't care if someone loves or hates the coach, don't care in the least.
But posters shouldn't be spending all of their time fixated with disgust for a coach, then tell me it's because they care more about the team than other fans.
Then it wouldn't be a stretch that they show happiness or appreciation for the team on occasion.
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Something else I'm thinking about with this support thing.

What would it take for you to be done with Butch? Let's say it's 6-6 this year and that's what happens, and we were ugly in the 6 wins.

You decide its time for him to go. You're done. Currie decides he stays. Do you support him next year?
 
#274
#274
Behr said:
Something else I'm thinking about with this support thing.

What would it take for you to be done with Butch? Let's say it's 6-6 this year and that's what happens, and we were ugly in the 6 wins.

You decide its time for him to go. You're done. Curries decides he stays. Do you support him next year?
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I just want to win. If I'm completely done with Jones, I do the same that I did with Dooley. Answer honestly when asked and try to focus on the team.
Not much different than now.

I would still correct people when they lied about Jones, same as I did with DD. The guy was horrible at almost everything but his general idea of offense was good. Always lack of control and miscommunication, too many players Etc.. but the general scheme was good.
 
#275
#275
Great discussion about feelings here fellas, don't think I don't appreciate it all, but this is the football forum and a thread about recruiting, so if y'all would be so kind and discuss that instead of how it hurts my feelings when my Vol brother takes potshots at anything Vol related. The reason I say that is it hurts my feelings when members of my Vol family goes too far by being jackwagons to each other. So to wrap this up, I've gotten a warm fuzzy feeling that we can move foward and discuss some football . We're all Pumpers here some pump shine some pump brakes, but we all pump something.

I try not to get too emotional while posting, but sometimes it's hard to hide.

So, Go Vols, let's take our time and enjoy the summer that's leads up to our NC season.
 
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