CBJ and injuries

[CTM]

Bama has the best depth in the country, yet loss of just two players cost them NC, Jackson and Scarbrough.

Guess Saban is at fault somehow

 

[volinbama256]

We have not recruited quality depth on the D line over the past 3 years, hopefully that changes this season. We definitely have seen more injuries whether before or during the season than any other SEC team over the past few years. Butch @#$& the bed during the SC and Vandy game. We should not have lost either one, despite the depth issues.
DEMZ tha facts.

 

[CountVolcula]

NO! Butch can't recruit elite line talent. Kmac & Trey Smith were players he had to settle for because no highly rated linemen would come play for him. lol:

BTW, both were rated by some services as not the best at their position, but best football player in the nation, period.

Kmac is legacy

UT hired Trey's sister

 

[VOLINVONORE]

While I get your sarcasm, you have to admit injuries are a problem with him. And if it causes another loss to Vandy then he is toast.

Most ridiculous post I have seen in a long time. What the hell does he have to do when a player gets clipped from behind, hit in the knee when he is out of bound, slips on a wet field, etc. If one wishes to bash our coach, at least know what you are talking about an don’t look like a idiot.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Is your "3 year pattern" PROOF that the HC has done his job wrong? Do you know our injury % in comparison to the other 120 D1 teams? If we had high injuries in yr 1 & 3, but not 2, would it still be the HCs fault? What @ 1 year only? HOW DO YOU LINK YOU STATS TO THE CAUSE? Please do tell.

Also what are the recurrence of major injuries? A detached bicep is more likely to detach again. That isn't a player being injured twice that is the same player aggravating an existing injury. A badly sprained knee will sprain again no matter how much you train. Simply because ligament tissue doesn't regenerate. You have to scar and train to hopefully regain 100℅ usage.

 

[savannahfan]

After last season, it's easy to feel like we have been cursed with injuries. But really, I think other than last year we haven't been different than most other teams. And even last year's injuries wouldn't have seemed so bad if we had better depth and if so many key players hadn't been impacted.

I saw several comments yesterday about the number of players not playing in the O&W game. But if I'm not mistaken, several of them are still dealing with issues from last season. So it's not like they were injured all over again. The coaches are trying to make sure they'll be ready to come back in the fall. And that's smart coaching, IMO.

RIGHT..
Maybe no more injuries than anyone else.
But injuries to key people, that's been the problem.
Don't know if I have ever seen or heard of a team suffering so many key injuries. Miss's loss of a receiver a couple of years ago stands out. A few teams losing starting QB's or running backs over the years, ect. But key players at near every position, such as we suffered last year, for me is unheard of.

 

[LA Vol]

CBJ said that we changed our spring game format because we've had too many players injured to play a game since 2015. So we've had a notable issue for three years. Maybe it's just bad luck. But there are probably other contributing factors, and I'm sure they're looking into them.

We held 25 players out of the spring game and limited others. Even though many were precautionary, that's a lot of banged up players. The coaches are clearly playing it safe to let everybody heal for fall.

 

[TrapVol]

Although some injuries (like Tuttle's) have nothing to do with the coaching staff, they do have to shoulder some of the blame, particularly because too many games have been played close that shouldn't have. Our starters are required to be on the field longer, and coupled with losing technique due to fatigue, they're more likely to get injured.

Our secondary alone kept our defense on the field too long, and we all know that was largely due to coaching, or a lack thereof.

Coach the players to execute better, be more consistent with play calling, and they won't have to play every game down to the wire. Then, we should see a significant drop-off in key injuries.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Although some injuries (like Tuttle's) have nothing to do with the coaching staff, they do have to shoulder some of the blame, particularly because too many games have been played close that shouldn't have. Our starters are required to be on the field longer, and coupled with losing technique due to fatigue, they're more likely to get injured.

Our secondary alone kept our defense on the field too long, and we all know that was largely due to coaching, or a lack thereof.

Coach the players to execute better, be more consistent with play calling, and they won't have to play every game down to the wire. Then, we should see a significant drop-off in key injuries.

I'd love to see your analysis.

Sounds like you've charted out where in the course of the game each injury happened (1st Qtr or 4th? How many minutes in?). That would be hugely helpful in supporting the conclusion you've reached.

And what's your metric? By what point of the game should all the starters be benched when we play, say, a Group of 5 team? A lower-tier SEC team, like Vandy or Miss State? A top-tier SEC team, like Bama or Georgia? What's the standard for each of those?

Also, how do all the injuries that happened off-season or during practice fit into your theory?

Wanting to hear more....

 

[Doberman]

Playing AA & All-SEC type players on special teams coverage is one area of high injury risk that I will say Jones is idiotic for doing so.

Completely unnecessary, and high risk/low reward.

 

[TrapVol]

I'd love to see your analysis.

Sounds like you've charted out where in the course of the game each injury happened (1st Qtr or 4th? How many minutes in?). That would be hugely helpful in supporting the conclusion you've reached.

And what's your metric? By what point of the game should all the starters be benched when we play, say, a Group of 5 team? A lower-tier SEC team, like Vandy or Miss State? A top-tier SEC team, like Bama or Georgia? What's the standard for each of those?

Also, how do all the injuries that happened off-season or during practice fit into your theory?

Wanting to hear more....

Why are people on this board so quick to attack everyone? My apologies if that was not your intent.

No analysis, but I would honestly love to see one myself. Clearly, pre-season injuries are included with those like the Tuttle injury, although we may find out if the strength and conditioning coach had something to do with that.

Lately, many of our games have come down to the last minute, often with us playing from behind. It just seems like too much of a coincidence to me that so many of our key players were lost for the season, when they were forced to be on the field longer. Even without the fatigue factor (Am I wrong in stating that tired players are more likely to sustain an injury?), surely the odds of getting hurt are increased with more repetitions.

I'm certainly not blaming the coaching staff for every injury, but I'm sure even Butch would agree they need to stop playing from behind so often and close games better. I make no claims to be an expert, just voicing what seems to be too much of a coincidence to ignore. At the very least, I think we can agree that being able to pull your starters earlier will decrease the likelihood of them getting injured.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

No, not attacking you, would just love to see any analysis you might have.

It's all about the scientific method, man. You come up with a hypothesis (which you did). Then you test to see if that hypothesis is valid by gathering evidence that supports or refutes it.

Until we get that evidence, all we have is an idea which may or may not be valid.

Just saying I'd like to see the data be gathered and checked out.


p.s. Way too often, folks come up with an idea, a hypothesis, and then just blurt it out as established fact, because to them it seems like it could be true. So maybe, in all honesty, I was attacking you just a little bit, if you did that. Would just like to see more folks try to confirm or deny their ideas before hoisting them up the flagpole as Truth. That's all.

 

[landscapingvol]

Kmac is legacy

UT hired Trey's sister

Every team does that boy wonder, it isn't unique to CBJ and that is part of recruiting.

 

[Volfan76]

When you go all or most of season without a S&C coach, you are going to have a lot of injuries. The elite S&C guys guys don't get paid more than most head coaches because they are good at filling up the gatorade jugs.

 

[TNnative]

It will but if the past has any bearing on what is to come, expect more of the same.

Aren't you that guy who's family facetiously nicknamed him Sunshine? Do flowers suddenly wilt as you walk past them and swarms of buzzards roost in the trees surrounding your home? Ease up with the doom and gloom, some of the posters here are first born.

 

[GAVol]

When you go all or most of season without a S&C coach, you are going to have a lot of injuries. The elite S&C guys guys don't get paid more than most head coaches because they are good at filling up the gatorade jugs.

Might be some correlation there, but some of the stuff that happened last year like with Sutton, Kirkland etc was just completely freak. By the end of September, it had already gotten ridiculous injury-wise.

 

[sjt18]

Interesting information. The problem is that you (nor the OP) have established a link between the Head Coaches actions / inactions that make the correlation between coaching and injury.

The HC is responsible for hiring the S&C program and managing it effectively.

The HC is responsible for managing practices to avoid injuries. That could include the drills they run, rest periods, pace, contact, etc.

The HC is responsible for evaluating recruits. A ton of money goes into this process. Some coaches find durable players. Some do not.

The HC is responsible for creating and maintaining depth by his recruiting process. Fulmer did this with "needs" classes full of guys who would probably never start but could take enough reps in a year to preserve the health of the first tier guys.

The HC is responsible for assuring that game rotation maintains the health of the depth chart.

Why are you trying to absolve Jones of the things that he and HE ALONE has control over and responsibility for?

I think all of us hope he figures it out... but he hasn't for 3 years and his success depends on it.

Because we have had 2 straight years of high rates of injury to important player does NOT necessarily establish a link to the HC.

Three years. Not two. And the HC if he's doing his job should see problems LONG before fans can argue about them.

This kind of illogic is reminiscent of today's social justice warriors out fighting the wage gap.

You mean the one's that avoid the facts and avoid placing blame where it belongs... like you have?

It's the same ignorant principle. #1 Men average making more than women statistically #2 Therefore, our society values males more than females. .

This example would only apply if you were talking about a manager with responsibility and control over the wages paid to employees doing the same work. IOW's, it doesn't apply at all. The wage gap is created primarily by personal decisions outside the control of those who pay for the work.

The problem we are discussing is the DIRECT product of many factors but one of if not the largest one is Jones' decisions and management.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

When you go all or most of season without a S&C coach, you are going to have a lot of injuries. The elite S&C guys guys don't get paid more than most head coaches because they are good at filling up the gatorade jugs.

The elite S&C coaches don't get paid more than most head coaches. Period.

Top-end pay for a college S&C coach is around $500K/year. Which is a lot for most of us ordinary joes, but it's a pittance compared to even just the average Power 5 football or men's basketball coach.

One 'for instance': Nick Saban makes about $7M/year. His S&C coach, one of the highest-paid in the country, makes less than one-tenth that, at $525K/year.

They're well paid at the top programs, sure, but not head-coach-level of well-paid.

 

[TNnative]

Why are people on this board so quick to attack everyone? My apologies if that was not your intent.

No analysis, but I would honestly love to see one myself. Clearly, pre-season injuries are included with those like the Tuttle injury, although we may find out if the strength and conditioning coach had something to do with that.

Lately, many of our games have come down to the last minute, often with us playing from behind. It just seems like too much of a coincidence to me that so many of our key players were lost for the season, when they were forced to be on the field longer. Even without the fatigue factor (Am I wrong in stating that tired players are more likely to sustain an injury?), surely the odds of getting hurt are increased with more repetitions.

I'm certainly not blaming the coaching staff for every injury, but I'm sure even Butch would agree they need to stop playing from behind so often and close games better. I make no claims to be an expert, just voicing what seems to be too much of a coincidence to ignore. At the very least, I think we can agree that being able to pull your starters earlier will decrease the likelihood of them getting injured.

IMO, we have trained one another well.

 

[sjt18]

FWIW, Jones has said that they have "studied" the injury problem... so he DOES acknowledge it is a problem. In fact, they DID make changes starting last August that included letting certain players (like Hurd) take days off.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

[ whole lotta words, saying basically, Head Coach is HMFIC]

Sure, the buck stops at the boss's desk. Got that.

But show me proximate cause for our host of injuries over the past three years. Show me common denominators among any significant percentage of those proximate causes.

You can pound on the desk all day saying, "The buck must stop here!" but until you can find a clear pattern among the proximate causes of all these injuries, you're just sacrificing a virgin on the altar at the foot of the volcano because you don't really know what the hell's going on.



p.s. Not calling Butch a virgin, hehe.

 

[TNnative]

FWIW, Jones has said that they have "studied" the injury problem... so he DOES acknowledge it is a problem. In fact, they DID make changes starting last August that included letting certain players (like Hurd) take days off.

Hurd who?

 

[LA Vol]

They tried some different things this spring-- lightening up some practices, more physical scrimmages and different rotations, in addition to changes in S&C. Many injuries were carryovers, so we don't know how many injuries came out of spring, other than Dowdy. Guess we'll see where we stand this summer.

 

[TNnative]

Sure, the buck stops at the boss's desk. Got that.

But show me proximate cause for our host of injuries over the past three years. Show me common denominators among any significant percentage of those proximate causes.

You can pound on the desk all day saying, "The buck must stop here!" but until you can find a clear pattern among the proximate causes of all these injuries, you're just sacrificing a virgin on the altar at the foot of the volcano because you don't really know what the hell's going on.


p.s. Not calling Butch a virgin, hehe.

Impressive. Most impressive....

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Impressive. Most impressive....

Haha, yeah, I made myself chuckle at that visual image, too. Whole buncha guys in loincloths standing around scratching their butts and saying, "The damn thing keeps going off!"