CBJ and injuries

[VFL-82-JP]

Well, Reeves Maybin missed the entirety of the season after a special teams coverage tackle against THE OHIO FREAKING BOBCATS.

Research complete.

Why you continue to debate this specific point is a head scratcher.

Single data point does not a proof make. Actually, you dont' even have one full data point yet. We know that the loss of JRM cost us most of his last year. But you haven't yet determined how much JRM being on the coverage unit helped us over his career. It's cost-benefit, not just cost analysis.

And as for SJT, man, you have no data points at all yet.

It's like neither of you have ever heard of the scientific method. But I'm sure you did, back in high school and maybe college. You just seem to have forgotten the principles involved.

 

[Doberman]

Single data point does not a proof make.

And as for SJT, man, you have no data points at all yet.

Wonder why the NFL moved the kickoff up to lessen the chances of return, and debated removing the play from football altogether?

Ready to put this baby to bed yet?

 

[sjt18]

Well, Reeves Maybin missed the entirety of the season after a special teams coverage tackle against THE OHIO FREAKING BOBCATS.

Research complete.

Why you continue to debate this specific point is a head scratcher.

Because he doesn't want to associate fatigue to high game reps to HC decisions about the number of plays key players play. He wants to get lost in "proving" that JRM's injury was related to high reps or maybe even wants to see an ironclad "proof" that fatigued players get injured more often.

 

[Doberman]

Because he doesn't want to associate fatigue to high game reps to HC decisions about the number of plays key players play. He wants to get lost in "proving" that JRM's injury was related to high reps or maybe even wants to see an ironclad "proof" that fatigued players get injured more often.

The NFL figured it out. 40 yd high speed collisions are bad for ones health and increase risk of serious injuries.

Pretty iron clad proof in my mind, if common sense hadn't already told me so.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Holy cow... you are really playing that non-sense to the maximum, aren't you?

Are you willing to stipulate that fatigue, improper conditioning, improper techniques, and innate personal factors are contributors to injury... or do you require an encyclopedia of "proof" for those cause-effect relationships too?

As for this, sure. Fatigue, improper condition and improper technique (I have no clue what you mean by "innate personal factors") contribute to injuries.

Are you trying to say our players should never get fatigued? Shouldn't play if they're not in some (undefined) perfect condition, and can play with perfect technique?

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Players play and practice while tired. They have less than perfect technique and less than perfect condition (no one's perfect). Are you trying to say our guys are MORE fatigued than the average team? If that's true, shouldn't they be working even harder in the off-season? Same for less than perfect technique.

What exactly are you trying to say here? That Butch or some other coach is at fault because they're out of shape? Or because they pushed the players too hard to be in shape?

Utterly confusing now....

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Heh, the two of you can pat each other on the head all day, it doesn't make you right.

You're like Mark Farner hitting the "E" chord and holding his guitar above his head for the audience to applaud. You're acting as if saying, "hey, running into each other really fast can cause injuries!" proves anything about why Tennessee has had more injuries than average the past three years.

It's utter nonsense. But you go ahead congratulating each other.

 

[Doberman]

Heh, the two of you can pat each other on the head all day, it doesn't make you right.

You're like Mark Farner hitting the "E" chord and holding his guitar above his head for the audience to applaud. You're acting as if saying, "hey, running into each other really fast can cause injuries!" proves anything about why Tennessee has had more injuries than average the past three years.

It's utter nonsense. But you go ahead congratulating each other.

Care to respond to my 2 previous post instead of this diversion?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Your 2 previous posts were the ones about "players running into each other at high speeds causes injuries!"

If you have data showing that Tennessee's injuries are largely attributable to this general fact, you failed to include it.

So I think I already did respond to both of them.

 

[wtorange]

Well, Reeves Maybin missed the entirety of the season after a special teams coverage tackle against THE OHIO FREAKING BOBCATS.

Research complete.

Why you continue to debate this specific point is a head scratcher.

A lot of really good team use starters on special teams. Unless you are Alabama you don't the kind of depth to chance not putting good players on special teams. Since CBJ has been here our special teams have been one of the team strengths and that is not a coincidence.

 

[Doberman]

Your 2 previous posts were the ones about "players running into each other at high speeds causes injuries!"

If you have data showing that Tennessee's injuries are largely attributable to this general fact, you failed to include it.

So I think I already did respond to both of them.

Nope, you didn't, and you don't want to for obvious reasons.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Nope, you didn't, and you don't want to for obvious reasons.

Sure, I did. Your two previous posts were #127 and #129. And literally all you said in those two posts, as pertains to Tennessee football, is that players running into other players at high speed during kickoffs has high injury potential.

You literally did not say another word about how that applies to Tennessee injuries over the past three years, how many of our players were hurt on kickoffs, how much benefit we got from starters being on ST, or how much it cost us when starters got hurt while on ST.

You literally just said, "running into each other fast hurts."

I think I addressed that sufficiently for its worth.

 

[Freak]

It doesn't matter either way really.

He's responsible for the finished product or end result which has factors that are not in his control. He is playing with the same factors every other coach is.

The issue is that some posts in this thread seem to insinuate the injuries are Butch's fault. There's a difference between being ultimately responsible for the product and being to blame for fluke injuries.

I truly believe injuries played a big factor in the team's performance last year. But I also believe that we can't keep losing to Vanderbilt and Muschump-coached South Carolina teams, regardless.

The two Vanderbilt losses are nearly grounds dismissal on their own merit. Butch's resume looks so much better without those two black marks, and we're likely coming off of a Sugar Bowl season.

 

[Doberman]

Sure, I did. Your two previous posts were #127 and #129. And literally all you said in those two posts, as pertains to Tennessee football, is that players running into other players at high speed during kickoffs has high injury potential.

You literally did not say another word about how that applies to Tennessee injuries over the past three years, how many of our players were hurt on kickoffs, how much benefit we got from starters being on ST, or how much it cost us when starters got hurt while on ST.

You literally just said, "running into each other fast hurts."

I think I addressed that sufficiently for its worth.

Yeah, ok.

If that's what you think.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

It's not a matter of opinion. It's an easily verified fact. That's all you said about Tennessee football in either of those posts. Everyone reading this thread can see the same thing.

SJT has gone quiet. Knowing him, he's out there gathering data and coming up with something approximating a proof for his position. He does that, sometimes, and it always impresses me when he does. He may not always be right (none of us are), but he's often willing to put the work in to support his position with good data.

I'm getting the feeling you have no intention of trying to do the same.

 

[volfan102455]

-- Player A slipped on the wet turf, got his legs spread apart, and twisted his knee to the side. Proximate cause: footing (check on cleats, condition of turf, decision to play in rain).

Solution - cancel / suspend games when it is raining, cover field to keep it dry just like they do in baseball and softball.

-- Player B's knee crumpled after a cheap shot from behind by the opposing offensive guard. Proximate cause: a**hole.

Solution: Suspend a**hole for same time frame as the hurt player is out.

 

[Doberman]

It's not a matter of opinion. It's an easily verified fact. That's all you said about Tennessee football in either of those posts. Everyone reading this thread can see the same thing.

That you are deflecting, yes.

The NFL changed the kick-off return rules, lessening the frequency of those particular plays, due to the increased risk of injuries.

You said you wanted proof. There it is.

It not Tennessee specific, though, so I guess it doesn't count. :stinker2:

My final word on the topic:

If CBJ continues to play our key team members on special teams COVERAGE, he is the blithering idiot than some make him out to be.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Solution - cancel / suspend games when it is raining, cover field to keep it dry just like they do in baseball and softball.



Solution: Suspend a**hole for same time frame as the hurt player is out.

Not sure I'd agree with suspending games because of rain, but I'm 100% with you on your second solution.

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

People always say it's not a big deal and it is normal, but I do think there is something wrong with how many injuries we have.

I believe alot has to do with last year sc coach and bad luck but we shall see

 

[temptn]

He's not recruited well enough to be a plug and play system like all elite programs!

Since when was Tennessee an elite program?

 

[Freak]

That you are deflecting, yes.

The NFL changed the kick-off return rules, lessening the frequency of those particular plays, due to the increased risk of injuries.

You said you wanted proof. There it is.

It not Tennessee specific, though, so I guess it doesn't count. :stinker2:

My final word on the topic:

If CBJ continues to play our key team members on special teams COVERAGE, he is the blithering idiot than some make him out to be.

Special teams are important. We don't have to look far back through our history as a reminder.

That said, I don't particularly like our key players being used on special teams. Yet, I'd be the first one complaining if we were giving up return touchdowns.

It would be interesting to see how many starters on other SEC teams are used on special teams compared to Tennessee.

 

[Iam4utalways]

JRM had shoulder surgery prior to last year, then re-injured it against Ohio, when/how did the original injury occur?

 

[BeecherVol]

The issue is that some posts in this thread seem to insinuate the injuries are Butch's fault. There's a difference between being ultimately responsible for the product and being to blame for fluke injuries.

I truly believe injuries played a big factor in the team's performance last year. But I also believe that we can't keep losing to Vanderbilt and Muschump-coached South Carolina teams, regardless.

The two Vanderbilt losses are nearly grounds dismissal on their own merit. Butch's resume looks so much better without those two black marks, and we're likely coming off of a Sugar Bowl season.

I agree.

To me the fault of the injuries (If you find any) is irrelevant at the end of the day. Everybody has the same issues to deal with. Can you manage with them, cause they are gonna happen.

I see the argument as somewhat pointless for that reason.

 

[BeecherVol]

Special teams are important. We don't have to look far back through our history as a reminder.

That said, I don't particularly like our key players being used on special teams. Yet, I'd be the first one complaining if we were giving up return touchdowns.

It would be interesting to see how many starters on other SEC teams are used on special teams compared to Tennessee.

It's a necessary evil some years. You hope to recruit well enough every year where a starting SR LB doesn't have to cover kicks. Especially when you have very little behind him at LB.

 

[ptcarter]

We've had a lot of punt returns for touchdowns in the last couple of seasons.
Kickoff teams seem to have done well too.

The Dooley special team days were a nightmare.

 

[Other_Guy]

People always say it's not a big deal and it is normal, but I do think there is something wrong with how many injuries we have.

It's weird how 3 different S&C guys under him having ythe same problem...