Josh Dobbs - NFL Draft thread (merged)

#476
#476
114VOL said:
You might need to work on your reading comprehension. I said Martin completed 23 straight passes in Columbia during his junior season towards the end of an undefeated season. 100% fact. Also I stated Fulmer should have been gone long before 2008.

Of course, it's my opinion that Dobbs isn't exponentially better than Martin as someone ignorantly claimed. An opinion shared by those that have actually played and coached the game. Not some little boy opinion
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How old are you exactly? If you're over 21, you sure aren't acting your age.
 
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#477
#477
114VOL said:
You might need to work on your reading comprehension. I said Martin completed 23 straight passes in Columbia during his junior season towards the end of an undefeated season. 100% fact. Also I stated Fulmer should have been gone long before 2008.

Of course, it's my opinion that Dobbs isn't exponentially better than Martin as someone ignorantly claimed. An opinion shared by those that have actually played and coached the game. Not some little boy opinion
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We you actually alive for the 98 season? Playing and coaching peewee doesn't make an authority.

Your fact is an aberration in his career. Much like winning the NC. Please state career numbers to show he was better overall than Dobbs.
 
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#478
#478
114VOL said:
You might need to work on your reading comprehension. I said Martin completed 23 straight passes in Columbia during his junior season towards the end of an undefeated season. 100% fact. Also I stated Fulmer should have been gone long before 2008.

Of course, it's my opinion that Dobbs isn't exponentially better than Martin as someone ignorantly claimed. An opinion shared by those that have actually played and coached the game. Not some little boy opinion
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Don't say You weren't warned.... 😎
 
#479
#479
82_VOL_83 said:
We you actually alive for the 98 season? Playing and coaching peewee doesn't make an authority.

Your fact is an aberration in his career. Much like winning the NC. Please state career numbers to show he was better overall than Dobbs.
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I was alive for the 1963 season, son. And I didn't say martin was better. I said it was absurdly stupid to claim Dobbs is exponentially better. Either improve your reading comprehension or get out of this adult discussion. Got it!
 
#480
#480
114VOL said:
I was alive for the 1963 season, son. And I didn't say martin was better. I said it was absurdly stupid to claim Dobbs is exponentially better. Either improve your reading comprehension or get out of this adult discussion. Got it!
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1963 AFL championship... did you watch it??? Best coordinated game ever... Sid Gillian....
 
#481
#481
IknoxvolsI said:
Alot of it has to do with the team at that moment as well. Prescott at Dallas and Big Ben at Pittsburg.
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i'll give you that 1st two years. he stepped in to a pretty good situation no doubt.

but past that....offensively, they've taken away more than they've given. his offensive line for the last 8-9 years has been average....at best. and i'd argue that they won super bowl 43 with a pretty bad O line.

WR's have come and gone...Burress, Holmes, Ward (retired), Wallace, Wilson, Randel El....

same with RB's...Bettis (retired), Parker, Bell (in and out for various reasons)....

point being, i think Ben has worked his way to his current status vs. just being handed the keys to a porsche and taking the wheel.:thumbsup:

defensively, obviously the first 5 years of his career, they were top notch, and that helps any QB.

but strictly speaking on the offensive side of the ball....he's not had all the best tools, all the time. i think Ben is one of those QB's that makes average guys look better. especially on the offensive line.
 
#483
#483
114VOL said:
:birgits_giggle:

Ridiculous to say far better. Tee was a much better drop back passer but wasn't as good a runner as Dobbs.

Yeah it's close with Tee edging Dobbs out. To say not even close makes you sound less than credible
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114VOL said:
I was alive for the 1963 season, son. And I didn't say martin was better. I said it was absurdly stupid to claim Dobbs is exponentially better. Either improve your reading comprehension or get out of this adult discussion. Got it!
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you sure about that?
 
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#484
#484
114VOL said:
I was alive for the 1963 season, son. And I didn't say martin was better. I said it was absurdly stupid to claim Dobbs is exponentially better. Either improve your reading comprehension or get out of this adult discussion. Got it!
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I thought everybody who was alive for the '63 season was typed in all caps 😉
 
#486
#486
jakez4ut said:
you sure about that?
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Ok. You got me, but it wasn't some outrageous claim like "Dobbs is exponentially better". Yes, I think Martin was a little better. For me it's the eye test. Better stats doesn't necessarily make someone better.
 
#489
#489
114VOL said:
Ok. You got me, but it wasn't some outrageous claim like "Dobbs is exponentially better". Yes, I think Martin was a little better. For me it's the eye test. Better stats doesn't necessarily make someone better.
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as long as we're clear, the only thing you're going on is..... your opinion.

good luck with that.:thumbsup:

i feel pretty comfortable saying Dobbs was better, using any adjective one chooses to use.
 
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#492
#492
114VOL said:
Born in 1963. Been a Giants fan ever since:clapping:
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Oh ok... well I am referring to the AFL championship between the LA Chargers and the Boston Patriots.... every coach should watch that game to see a perfectly called game.... Sid Gilman is the most unrecognized/ unappreciated coach ever.... he made the NFL what it is today.... in the good sense... not the half hearted (I'm playing to get payed way)... Sid Gilman was the first Bill Belichick... outstanding coach... he is also why you do not see very man two back sets now....
 
#493
#493
114VOL said:
I was alive for the 1963 season, son. And I didn't say martin was better. I said it was absurdly stupid to claim Dobbs is exponentially better. Either improve your reading comprehension or get out of this adult discussion. Got it!
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Nah, I'd rather see you continue to chastise us children..... Much like a kid with mental challenges and a puppy, you are kinda funny and sad at the same time.
 
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#495
#495
114VOL said:
Tee led the Vols to a national championship. How's that for tangible???:eek:lol:

I realize you're likely a less than informed young adult and maybe not an adult. If you want to sound credible you can't make an absurdly, ignorant claim like "Josh was exponentially better as a college qb than Martin, not even close" It's almost insane to say such. Martin completed 23 straight passes as a junior at USC towards the end of an undefeated season. He also threw two of the best long passes in history under pressure during the National Championship game. He was a gamer, who when under pressure, would take off an run. Not as well as Dobbs, but did it under pressure in big games to give us an advantage.

Good luck posting here. Maybe you should think before you hit send
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Whole lotta snark and smartarse in this post...I'll try not to return the sentiment.

1. "Leading the Vols to a national championship" isn't tangible at all, speaks not to whether or not he was a better qb than Dobbs. Simple way to prove this is to ask "was he a better Tennessee qb than Manning or Shuler, neither of whom "led Tennessee to a national title"? No, of course not, that's silly. In the NFL, think Dilfer and Marino...who has a Super Bowl ring, who was the better qb? I could further this point with myriad other similar questions, I won't belabor the point. So your "tangible" statement really means nothing to this debate.

2. I turn 50 this year, been a UT fan since the mid 70s when Battle was the head coach, UT grad class of '90, now have two young adult children. So even though I recognized that as a poor attempt at insult, you're even wrong there making that "assertion"

3. My declaration that Dobbs was exponentially better than Martin is neither absurd nor is it ignorant. Compare honestly, if you're capable, the circumstances that surrounded them/the status of the program during their respective tenures at Tennessee....Martin stepped into the best or second best era of Tennessee football all-time, all-sec and all-American players all over the place, ton of future NFL players. Dobbs? None of that....this will the first year in the last 3 that we'll have anybody even drafted.

4. What an incredibly ignorant and lazy thing to point out .... ONE singular, outlier game when Tee completed 23-24 passes vs a 1-10 SCar team? That's what you cite? How about the totality of the rest of his career....he was a 54% passer, behind those great OLs, handing off to those great rbs, throwing to those future NFL WRs. Dobbs has had none of that benefit (throw in he also didn't have anywhere near those great defenses Martin played with) with exception of maybe a great running back, who hardly ever even got to play (AK).

I'll also add that Dobbs went 31-34 (91%) last year vs Vandy and 69-86 (80.2%) the last 4 regular season games. You can hang your hat on that ONE anomaly game and a 55.4 career completion % with Tee.....I'll ride with Dobbs who had much more consistency, more wins where he carried his team and 61.5 career completion %. I think I'll also add Dobbs' 65 total tds his last 2 seasons. (18 more than Tee)...I'll spare you in the rushing comparisons, it's not pretty.

In the same year, 1998, that he completed 23-24 passes vs SCar, he went 9-26 vs Syracuse, 10-27 vs Arky (including 0-4 the final drive before Stoerner's unlikely fumble when UT needed him to be clutch), threw for all of 64 yards vs Florida. Oftentimes Tee's poor QB play in 1998 was the issue, was the problem, was the reason the defense had to play great, was the reason Tee himself had to come up with that one big play/throw to win the game/salvage the season. If you were around, watching and paying attention in 1998, there's no way you don't recall all the angst and criticism amongst the fans and media about Tee's play.

5. I can agree that Tee was a gamer.....in 1998. I mentioned in previous posts that Tee had a penchant for playing poorly for most of the game, only to come up with that big throw at big times....as a junior in 1998....before regressing (12 tds 9 ints as a senior) in 1999. While Josh took a big jump in progression and play from his junior to senior seasons, which now has him as a solid mid to late round NFL draft pick, Martin regressed despite playing on what many believed was team in 99 than 98.

In summation, Dobbs was a better athlete, far better runner, far more accurate passer (especially as he went further into his career) and had more consistency across multiple seasons. So I'll say it again.....imho, Dobbs was exponentially better than Tee as a UT qb, every way you can objectively measure them says so.

Hitting "send" now.
 
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#497
#497
KBVol said:
Whole lotta snark and smartarse in this post...I'll try not to return the sentiment.

1. "Leading the Vols to a national championship" isn't tangible at all, speaks not to whether or not he was a better qb than Dobbs. Simple way to prove this is to ask "was he a better Tennessee qb than Manning or Shuler, neither of whom "led Tennessee to a national title"? No, of course not, that's silly. In the NFL, think Dilfer and Marino...who has a Super Bowl ring, who was the better qb? I could further this point with myriad other similar questions, I won't belabor the point. So your "tangible" statement really means nothing to this debate.

2. I turn 50 this year, been a UT fan since the mid 70s when Battle was the head coach, UT grad class of '90, now have two young adult children. So even though I recognized that as a poor attempt at insult, you're even wrong there making that "assertion"

3. My declaration that Dobbs was exponentially better than Martin is neither absurd nor is it ignorant. Compare honestly, if you're capable, the circumstances that surrounded them/the status of the program during their respective tenures at Tennessee....Martin stepped into the best or second best era of Tennessee football all-time, all-sec and all-American players all over the place, ton of future NFL players. Dobbs? None of that....this will the first year in the last 3 that we'll have anybody even drafted.

4. What an incredibly ignorant and lazy thing to point out .... ONE singular, outlier game when Tee completed 23-24 passes vs a 1-10 SCar team? That's what you cite? How about the totality of the rest of his career....he was a 54% passer, behind those great OLs, handing off to those great rbs, throwing to those future NFL WRs. Dobbs has had none of that benefit (throw in he also didn't have anywhere near those great defenses Martin played with) with exception of maybe a great running back, who hardly ever even got to play (AK).

I'll also add that Dobbs went 31-34 (91%) last year vs Vandy and 69-86 (80.2%) the last 4 regular season games. You can hang your hat on that ONE anomaly game and a 55.4 career completion % with Tee.....I'll ride with Dobbs who had much more consistency, more wins where he carried his team and 61.5 career completion %. I think I'll also add Dobbs' 65 total tds his last 2 seasons. (18 more than Tee)...I'll spare you in the rushing comparisons, it's not pretty.

In the same year, 1998, that he completed 23-24 passes vs SCar, he went 9-26 vs Syracuse, 10-27 vs Arky (including 0-4 the final drive before Stoerner's unlikely fumble when UT needed him to be clutch), threw for all of 64 yards vs Florida. Oftentimes Tee's poor QB play in 1998 was the issue, was the problem, was the reason the defense had to play great, was the reason Tee himself had to come up with that one big play/throw to win the game/salvage the season. If you were around, watching and paying attention in 1998, there's no way you don't recall all the angst and criticism amongst the fans and media about Tee's play.

5. I can agree that Tee was a gamer.....in 1998. I mentioned in previous posts that Tee had a penchant for playing poorly for most of the game, only to come up with that big throw at big times....as a junior in 1998....before regressing (12 tds 9 ints as a senior) in 1999. While Josh took a big jump in progression and play from his junior to senior seasons, which now has him as a solid mid to late round NFL draft pick, Martin regressed despite playing on what many believed was team in 99 than 98.

In summation, Dobbs was a better athlete, far better runner, far more accurate passer (especially as he went further into his career) and had more consistency across multiple seasons. So I'll say it again.....imho, Dobbs was exponentially better than Tee as a UT qb, every way you can objectively measure them says so.

And now I'm hitting "send".
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There you go, bringing facts to a fiction fight!
 
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#498
#498
there's nothing you can point to in any measurable way that says Tee is better than Dobbs, in any way shape or form.
 
#500
#500
82_VOL_83 said:
Nah, I'd rather see you continue to chastise us children..... Much like a kid with mental challenges and a puppy, you are kinda funny and sad at the same time.
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Whatever. Stand by opinion that it's outrageously absurd to say Dobbs is exponentially better than Martin. With all due respect, sounds like someone less than informed.....you know, like a child.
 
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