Dobbs at the Combine

#226
#226
Nasavol said:
Now this is an interesting measurement. This kinda goes to my point I was trying to make to him that shall remain nameless as to what it looks like from JD. I related it to an outfielder's arm, vs a 3rd baseman. The outfielder has to throw it farther but the 3rd baseman has to get it there in a hurry.

Nice find.
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Is a catcher's throw, perhaps, a better illustration?
 
#229
#229
Ancient Reptile said:
Are you guys aware that threads on opponents sites are lauding Dobbs' performance and criticizing Butch for not doing more with him? Just asking.
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Still, I've yet to see a major source putting Dobbs higher than the 8-10 range in this years crop of QB's. (there may be some but I've not seen them)

In the end it's the people doing the actual evaluations for the teams that matter as opposed to fan forum opinions.
 
#230
#230
Ancient Reptile said:
Are you guys aware that threads on opponents sites are lauding Dobbs' performance and criticizing Butch for not doing more with him? Just asking.
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Vols fans would rather believe Dobbs was the problem since he's leaving rather than Butch Jones who is still here. They don't want to believe that the guy who is still around is the guy who has been holding the team back.

Its typical delusional fan mindset.
 
#231
#231
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Vols fans would rather believe Dobbs was the problem since he's leaving rather than Butch Jones who is still here. They don't want to believe that the guy who is still around is the guy who has been holding the team back.

Its typical delusional fan mindset.
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Dobbs was someone who clearly had to be developed. He needed to be redshirted. Russell Wilson didn't really do anything until his redshirt senior season. Dobbs was not poorly coached. The problem we've had is offensive tackle play. Most quarterbacks could not have survived the beating Dobbs has taken.
 
#232
#232
hndog609 said:
Still, I've yet to see a major source putting Dobbs higher than the 8-10 range in this years crop of QB's. (there may be some but I've not seen them)

In the end it's the people doing the actual evaluations for the teams that matter as opposed to fan forum opinions.
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That's cause those major sources are just trying to predict draft position. They are not actually evaluating players or trying to predict NFL success. Here is one guy who is actually trying to rate NFL success: 2017 NFL Draft – Top 10 Series: Quarterback – NFL DRAFT LINE

He has Dobbs ranked as his #2 QB in the 2017 class. And he's been rated as being more accurate than Mike Mayock.
 
#233
#233
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
That's cause those major sources are just trying to predict draft position. They are not actually evaluating players or trying to predict NFL success. Here is one guy who is actually trying to rate NFL success: 2017 NFL Draft – Top 10 Series: Quarterback – NFL DRAFT LINE

He has Dobbs ranked as his #2 QB in the 2017 class. And he's been rated as being more accurate than Mike Mayock.
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So, just to be clear, you're arguing that projecting where one places in the draft order isn't associated with "evaluating" them as players or what would be expected of them in their future job in relation to that draft position and the money associated with that placement?

It's nice that someone is showing Dobbs props and I hope they're right. Having said that the observation you just posited is simply ridiculous.

And while we're (well, you anyway) lauding this person's acumen I notice Dobbs is #2 on a list that opens with this caveat:

There are several prospects with “raw tools”, but no prospect even approaching a finished NFL progression passer. In what is a below average class, expect hearts to be broken…
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#234
#234
doctorchoice said:
Dobbs was someone who clearly had to be developed. He needed to be redshirted. Russell Wilson didn't really do anything until his redshirt senior season. Dobbs was not poorly coached. The problem we've had is offensive tackle play. Most quarterbacks could not have survived the beating Dobbs has taken.
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Stopped reading at the Russell Wilson comment.
 
#236
#236
pricevol5 said:
Stopped reading at the Russell Wilson comment.
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I happen to think Dobbs and Russell Wilson look pretty similar. Dobbs last five games he played like a pro quarterback. He also has Wilson's toughness and demeanor. The only point I wanted to make was that Dobbs was not poorly coached, he improved significantly during his time at Tennessee. Offensive Tackle play was more of a problem.
 
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#237
#237
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Vols fans would rather believe Dobbs was the problem since he's leaving rather than Butch Jones who is still here. They don't want to believe that the guy who is still around is the guy who has been holding the team back.

Its typical delusional fan mindset.
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Alright I will give you a shot.... Tell me why Dobbs wasn't the problem and tell me why butch jones was... (Don't think JD was the problem) (also don't think Butch Jones is either)
 
#238
#238
hndog609 said:
So, just to be clear, you're arguing that projecting where one places in the draft order isn't associated with "evaluating" them as players or what would be expected of them in their future job in relation to that draft position and the money associated with that placement?

It's nice that someone is showing Dobbs props and I hope they're right. Having said that the observation you just posited is simply ridiculous.

And while we're (well, you anyway) lauding this person's acumen I notice Dobbs is #2 on a list that opens with this caveat:
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You should read the guys opening paragraph on the link. He said that most other sites try to placate fans by rating the guys projected to go high as the top rated QBs. Its how during the pre Draft process everyone ends up with the same top 10 lists. They are just parroting what others say so they don't get called out for it. That way if one person is wrong, everyone is wrong.

That is the problem with most of these "draft experts". They're afraid to give their real opinions. They just regurgitate the same garbage. This is why there are so many busts.
 
#239
#239
Caleb59seal said:
Alright I will give you a shot.... Tell me why Dobbs wasn't the problem and tell me why butch jones was... (Don't think JD was the problem) (also don't think Butch Jones is either)
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Butch Jones has his playing with handcuffs at the start of every game with his conservative play calling. That is why we had so many first half deficits. Then when we fell behind by so many points that Butch had to drop his original gameplan and let Dobbs be Dobbs we made a furious comeback.

Just watch how great Dobbs is in the NFL when he gets proper coaching. He will expose how bad of a coach Butch Jones truly is.
 
#240
#240
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
That is the problem with most of these "draft experts". They're afraid to give their real opinions. They just regurgitate the same garbage. This is why there are so many busts.
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So, if they were to give their "real opinions" like you do, would they also wind up ripping the two picks that ultimately became the Offensive and Defensive Rookies of the Year? If so, then they are probably wise to refrain from expressing those opinions lest they look incredibly dumb.
 
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#241
#241
bamawriter said:
So, if they were to give their "real opinions" like you do, would they also wind up ripping the two picks that ultimately became the Offensive and Defensive Rookies of the Year? If so, then they are probably wise to refrain from expressing those opinions lest they look incredibly dumb.
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Sam Bradford, RG3, and Vince Young were also rookies of the year. Just cause you win the award doesn't mean you'll have a great career. Most NFL stars show their true colors in year 2 and 3. Guys who end up being busts sometimes enjoy great rookie years.

I was wrong about Dak Prescott (like everyone else). But I do maintain my opinion that Joey Bosa will ultimately be a bust. He just enjoyed a year with no other legitimate competition for the award. And he's the type of player who won't improve. He's right now about as good as he'll ever be. I never said he wouldn't be a competent NFL player. Just that he would be a bust given his draft position at #3 overall. Very similar to how Reggie Bush was a bust at #2 overall eventhough he enjoyed a decent career.

Joey Bosa = Aaron Kampman 2.0

Decent player but ultimately a bust.
 
#242
#242
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Butch Jones has his playing with handcuffs at the start of every game with his conservative play calling. That is why we had so many first half deficits. Then when we fell behind by so many points that Butch had to drop his original gameplan and let Dobbs be Dobbs we made a furious comeback.

Just watch how great Dobbs is in the NFL when he gets proper coaching. He will expose how bad of a coach Butch Jones truly is.
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Butch isn't the playcaller... Butch does have a big hand in the offense but that isn't the same as play calling duties during the game.... Any fan can blame it on play calling but I'm talking about actual football... So again, why is Dobbs so great and why is butch our problem?
 
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#243
#243
doctorchoice said:
I happen to think Dobbs and Russell Wilson look pretty similar. Dobbs last five games he played like a pro quarterback. He also has Wilson's toughness and demeanor. The only point I wanted to make was that Dobbs was not poorly coached, he improved significantly during his time at Tennessee. Offensive Tackle play was more of a problem.
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A big leg up that Russell had was his pocket presence, his accuracy, and the system he was in.... I honestly have no idea why a premium quarterback would ever want to go to a "spread" system... It doesn't train you for the NFL... The reads these guys have to make on the defense and within there own system is greatly reduced in spread systems compared to the systems in the NFL... I get it but I don't get it.
 
#244
#244
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You should read the guys opening paragraph on the link. He said that most other sites try to placate fans by rating the guys projected to go high as the top rated QBs. Its how during the pre Draft process everyone ends up with the same top 10 lists. They are just parroting what others say so they don't get called out for it. That way if one person is wrong, everyone is wrong.

That is the problem with most of these "draft experts". They're afraid to give their real opinions. They just regurgitate the same garbage. This is why there are so many busts.
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I read the whole thing and don't care in the least how this guy tries to justify how he arrives at his personal opinion. Every, and I mean EVERY draft ranking is qualitative. It's true the specific order is going to have lots of speculation since positional needs can supersede player evaluation (the Cowboys are not burning a high pick on a QB or RB for instance) but any given position pick is DIRECTLY related to player evaluation. Hells bells man that's literally the point of the draft in the first place. If you (or whomever) have different opinions on who is better then so be it but it's the height of idiocy to think there isn't a direct correlation between projected draft position and how well they are thought of as a player.
 
#245
#245
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Butch Jones has his playing with handcuffs at the start of every game with his conservative play calling. That is why we had so many first half deficits. Then when we fell behind by so many points that Butch had to drop his original gameplan and let Dobbs be Dobbs we made a furious comeback.

Just watch how great Dobbs is in the NFL when he gets proper coaching. He will expose how bad of a coach Butch Jones truly is.
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That's just not accurate. The game plans had nothing to do with drops, penalties, int's, fumbles, and yes, poor throws.

Before this season most everyone had Dobbs as Udfa at best.. he's now going to drafted as high as 3rd round.

Credit where credit is due.

The rest is just semantics that just don't matter.
 
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#246
#246
hndog609 said:
I read the whole thing and don't care in the least how this guy tries to justify how he arrives at his personal opinion. Every, and I mean EVERY draft ranking is qualitative. It's true the specific order is going to have lots of speculation since positional needs can supersede player evaluation (the Cowboys are not burning a high pick on a QB or RB for instance) but any given position pick is DIRECTLY related to player evaluation. Hells bells man that's literally the point of the draft in the first place. If you (or whomever) have different opinions on who is better then so be it but it's the height of idiocy to think there isn't a direct correlation between projected draft position and how well they are thought of as a player.
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Actually no. That's the case for NFL teams but not for most of these "draft experts". Their prerogative is more $$$. And for the online services that means more eye balls. So they have it in their interest to not stray too far from the consensus. Same with the TV guys. Their main job is to give us inside info on what the NFL teams are thinking. They are not actually evaluating the prospects themselves. If everyone was doing individual evaluations, I'm sure someone before the draft would have said Dak Prescott was the best QB in the draft. But no one said that. Why? Because the consensus was already formed on him. He was just another athletic spread QB with below average height and arm strength. Thus no one took a stance counter to it. These guys just want to all fall in line so that when they miss, they can say everyone else missed as well.

If you think Mel Kiper and Todd McShay are actually evaluating players then I feel sorry for you that you are that gullible.
 
#250
#250
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Sam Bradford, RG3, and Vince Young were also rookies of the year. Just cause you win the award doesn't mean you'll have a great career. Most NFL stars show their true colors in year 2 and 3. Guys who end up being busts sometimes enjoy great rookie years.

I was wrong about Dak Prescott (like everyone else). But I do maintain my opinion that Joey Bosa will ultimately be a bust. He just enjoyed a year with no other legitimate competition for the award. And he's the type of player who won't improve. He's right now about as good as he'll ever be. I never said he wouldn't be a competent NFL player. Just that he would be a bust given his draft position at #3 overall. Very similar to how Reggie Bush was a bust at #2 overall eventhough he enjoyed a decent career.

Joey Bosa = Aaron Kampman 2.0

Decent player but ultimately a bust.
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Every single player you just listed as a "bust" is miles ahead of, say, Kelvin Taylor or Kevin Hogan. You know them, right?We KNOW Bosa has exceeded your predictions based only on this season.

Oh, and bonus idgit points for trying to downplay Bosa with the "no other legitimate competition" comment. You do know he was the #5 sacker at DE in the league (1/2 sack behind Kahlil Mack) among ALL players, not just rookies, right? Oh, and that's not playing the first 4 weeks. Sorry dude, no sad little "but maybe someday" speculation changes that Bosa balled all over your prediction.
 
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