Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXII

[AV_12]

It wasn't about Dooley, it was about 4 stars who weren't that good vs 3 stars who are. There is a reason that some of these 3 star guys have great offer lists and some of the 4 stars don't. According to many on this site, we would do better with Dooley 4 stars (because they are 4 stars) than with Welton 3 stars (because they are 3 stars). I disagree. I just used Kelly as an example, not a proof. I would far rather have Kelly than Marlin Lane, who if I recall, was a Dooley 4 star.

I'm just trying to figure who even stated that this would be their preference?

 

[SSVol]

Dooley coaching on the sideline for Pro Bowl. Didn't know they recognized and reward incompetence in the NFL.

All the real coaches were busy.

 

[SSVol]

I'm just trying to figure who even stated that this would be their preference?

Never mind. You're right, we're doomed.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

This class is okay. Add Ray, and it's pretty good to really good depending on how some of these guys develop

 

[31VFL]

All the real coaches were busy.

He is what he is. A bad HC, apparently an awful person to work for, but his WR normally produce.

 

[McGeesPub]

What makes you think '18 can't eclipse '16?

At the end of the '15 season I sat down and looked at the talent we had returning and thought ok our ceiling for '16 is likely 10 wins, plus/minus 2. A few months later I decided we would have a small decline in '17, but based on the depth Butch had built, with more talented 1st string across the board, '18 could surely be a championship year.

Why do you think not?

Count me in the camp that 16 was an aberration as far as a Shoop defense goes, and we will have a much better year next year. I think if that happens, Kongbo and Kirkland will go pro, and Shoop will be a real threat to leave. Until I see more on the field from KMac, and better injury luck from Shy, I wont consider them as DTs who can take us to a championship. Regardless, I can't reconcile the secondary- specifically the CBs- being much more than a liability for the next couple of years. So we are going to likely have to overcome that both next year and 2018.

Offensively, I have big concerns at WR. I do think that Kelly will have a very, very good year next year, and as an RB, could use that as a springboard to declare. If he does, we will likely take a step back at RB, and we aren't sure if we have a QB yet.

So to sum up, I think 9-3 or 8-4 next year. Two or three of our top juniors go pro, and beyond them, I think the depth we've built for the most part is very average, due to the defections we've had through the years. Most will shrug this off, because absolutely, we didn't lose any AAs, but this is where your depth comes from. Plus, that's when the 16 and 17 classes will start to see the field in earnest, and I just feel those were a big step back from championship caliber.

I think if there is one big hope, it is the OL. I think that position has been extremely well managed under Butch, and it's an important one.

 

[Vols4us]

I spend a lot of time reading this recruiting thread and I don't say much. I will say this. Those that are in here thinking they are thread bouncers crack me up. That is all.

Well, that, and one more opinion. Average recruiting classes build average football teams. This class won't hurt us too bad but I would hate to think that we had two or three in a row.

I'm back quiet.

This level of recruiting is unlikely to win championships, and everyone knows it, including Butch.

You can whine about it, if that makes you feel better, or we can see how they develop and hope the next class is awesome.

One class will not make or break you, but two in a row gets troublesome real quick

I agree with the premises in both posts. But isn't this the second class in a row?

He's had 2 top classes in 5 cycles. I hope player development improves a great deal because he is not pulling top 5 type classes.

 

[VolGee4]

[/B]

I agree with the premises in both posts. But isn't this the second class in a row?

He's had 2 top classes in 5 cycles. I hope player development improves a great deal because he is not pulling top 5 type classes.

While the ranking was not fantastic, last year's class was low in numbers, which effected the ranking. According to Rivals, half our class were 4/5 stars. We only had 4 less 4/5 stars than Bama and 2 less than Clemson and UGA. That's not bad. If we have another year like this in 2018, then we can start talking.

 

[Vols4us]

Count me in the camp that 16 was an aberration as far as a Shoop defense goes, and we will have a much better year next year. I think if that happens, Kongbo and Kirkland will go pro, and Shoop will be a real threat to leave. Until I see more on the field from KMac, and better injury luck from Shy, I wont consider them as DTs who can take us to a championship. Regardless, I can't reconcile the secondary- specifically the CBs- being much more than a liability for the next couple of years. So we are going to likely have to overcome that both next year and 2018.

Offensively, I have big concerns at WR. I do think that Kelly will have a very, very good year next year, and as an RB, could use that as a springboard to declare. If he does, we will likely take a step back at RB, and we aren't sure if we have a QB yet.

So to sum up, I think 9-3 or 8-4 next year. Two or three of our top juniors go pro, and beyond them, I think the depth we've built for the most part is very average, due to the defections we've had through the years. Most will shrug this off, because absolutely, we didn't lose any AAs, but this is where your depth comes from. Plus, that's when the 16 and 17 classes will start to see the field in earnest, and I just feel those were a big step back from championship caliber.

I think if there is one big hope, it is the OL. I think that position has been extremely well managed under Butch, and it's an important one.

JMO - based on observations of the players, position groups, coaches and facets of the program the program is going to be in the #3-7 range in the SEC for a couple of years. I think Warren is the heir apparent for Shoop's replacement if he bolts in a year or two. For Butch to sell it the secondary has to improve significantly. Warren is paying his dues and will be ready by then. Kind of like Scott on O.

For meeting and exceeding expectations - secondary play, quarterback play and the S&C being strong to reduce injuries. What could hurt this team early next season is major injuries in particular to J-Kelly or JJ. The O-line is now a strength as you stated. The D is going to have to play well as a unit instead of with a couple of stud players leading the charge. If Shoop has his package in fully it may do well.

 

[chavisut]

Interesting. Then why do we have 10 4 stars on Rivals compared to their 4?

Because we've recruited more.

I didn't say our class was worse off.

 

[chavisut]

I dont see where the Welton under the radar guys are remarkably different than other teams' hit rates. Besides, that assumes he even prefers the 3*'s to the 4's.

.

 

[Z06VolinWV]

I'm attempting to save everyone from hearing my opinion. It wouldn't go over well with a lot of people on here. I understand that, but if they insist upon continuing to bring politics into the RF, they will get it. Most of you who know me on here understand that I don't have a great filter when it comes to speaking my mind.

I'd prefer not be forced into a vacation from here, but I will accept it none the less if necessary. :hi:

Haha!! This is exactly why I don't have a Facebook page, I'd piss more people off that it's worth by just speaking my mind!! 🍻🍻🍻
I can only imagine we have similar views on what's currently going on.

 

[chavisut]

So tired of reading how awful our recruiting class is over and over and over.

NSD is less than a week away. Discussion happens.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Kentucky has 19 3 stars and 4 4 stars. We have 23 3 stars and 4 4 stars. Fortunately the difference is we have studs Trey Smith and Ty Chandler.

Not all 3* are created equal..You know that.

 

[Vols4us]

While the ranking was not fantastic, last year's class was low in numbers, which effected the ranking. According to Rivals, half our class were 4/5 stars. We only had 4 less 4/5 stars than Bama and 2 less than Clemson and UGA. That's not bad. If we have another year like this in 2018, then we can start talking.

I was using 247 composite, which has them #13 for 2016 on player average and way down the list so far for 2017. It was #15 and #13 as far as total class ranking respectively.

If 2017 is a 9-3 or better season - the recruiting will zoom with Scott, Gillespie, Shoop, and Warren. Not counting Thig at this point since he seems to be on the bubble.

 

[JacketVol]

He had some quality lineman. The problem was the distribution.

one year he had zero OL

 

[chavisut]

.

 

[Batman1948]

All this research is amazing. I wish I had that kind of time on my hands. Oh wait, I do because I'm retired but my golf game gets in the way of researching football recruiting seasons. Damn, I must be doing something wrong with my life

 

[McGeesPub]

one year he had zero OL

So we agree.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Name the players that aren't sec caliber. Name them.

Went after him hard didn't you...I would've but I've been binge watching a series for a few hours...Good work. Saying this class is made of scrubs because they are three stars is pathetically dumb and extremely lazy. Everybody on this board knows how I've felt since the summer, and I've been castigated for it, but all the players I was against taking have been dumped, and we have upgraded. While it is not a awesome class by any standard, and like I said earlier, it is disappointing because of the hype, but...It is a very good class now imo. It is definitely not a poor class either. It is not a program killer.

 

[chavisut]

While the ranking was not fantastic, last year's class was low in numbers, which effected the ranking. According to Rivals, half our class were 4/5 stars. We only had 4 less 4/5 stars than Bama and 2 less than Clemson and UGA. That's not bad. If we have another year like this in 2018, then we can start talking.

Last year's class was solid, but it wasn't very low in numbers.

 

[JacketVol]

JMO - based on observations of the players, position groups, coaches and facets of the program the program is going to be in the #3-7 range in the SEC for a couple of years. I think Warren is the heir apparent for Shoop's replacement if he bolts in a year or two. For Butch to sell it the secondary has to improve significantly. Warren is paying his dues and will be ready by then. Kind of like Scott on O.

For meeting and exceeding expectations - secondary play, quarterback play and the S&C being strong to reduce injuries. What could hurt this team early next season is major injuries in particular to J-Kelly or JJ. The O-line is now a strength as you stated. The D is going to have to play well as a unit instead of with a couple of stud players leading the charge. If Shoop has his package in fully it may do well.

Injuries were big but I also thing it usually takes two years for a new system especially if it is somewhat complicated (and I know CBJ made him dumb it down some for dummies like Martinez) to really start hitting on points. Take the Falcons for example with CKS and QB Ryan. First year was hard to watch and horrific. By the second year it was the highest scoring O in the NFL and in the Super Bowl. I expect the D next year to be more like we expected as long as injuries do not come up as big.

 

[VolGee4]

Last year's class was solid, but it wasn't very low in numbers.

22...top 5 teams had at least 24. Clemson was sixth, had 22, and only had 2 more 4/5 stars. Comparative to Butch Jones classes, it was low. I would rather be ranked 15th with 22 commits than with 28. It means the extra 6 didn't make a difference.

 

[BruinVol]

22...top 5 teams had at least 24. Clemson was sixth, had 22, and only had 2 more 4/5 stars. Comparative to Butch Jones classes, it was low. I would rather be ranked 15th with 22 commits than with 28. It means the extra 6 didn't make a difference.

Don't the rankings only count 20?

 

[VolGee4]

Don't the rankings only count 20?

Not exactly sure. But do you not realize that adding 6 more should give you a chance at a better ranking? The more you have, the better chance to move up.