The Problem of Whiteness

[Burger]

Then why are the best foreign NBA players white?

I just got through writing a lengthy post a few pages back where I detailed how the best African born NBA player the last 15 years was Steve Nash (a white South African). Other than him the second best was Luol Deng (who is black and was generally seen as a good not great player). After Nash and Deng, you would be hard pressed to see another African-born NBA all-star. The best overall non-American basketball player the last 15 years was Dirk Norwitzki (a white German). Norwitki is currently the 5th leading scorer in NBA history.

In addition if we look at international competition, if you take the United States out, the best basketball nations are European. The African countries are typically the worst in international basketball competition. And generally the most white European nations like Spain and Lithuania dominate. France which generally has alot of black players on the team that are of African descent does not overwhelm teams like Spain. In fact they almost always lose to Spain in international competition. If your racist theory is true then teams like France should be dominating European basketball. But they don't. Its been Spain for the last 10 years.

For knowing so much about Africa, you forget about Hakeem Olajuwon, and Mutombo.

 

[RikidyBones]

For knowing so much about Africa, you forget about Hakeem Olajuwon, and Mutombo.

Serge Ibaka, a Moute

 

[marcusluvsvols]

For knowing so much about Africa, you forget about Hakeem Olajuwon, and Mutombo.

Dream is the best center to ever play the game IMO. aside from averaging 25 or more every season, he led the league in blocked shots just about every season. Opposing players didn't even attempt to drive the lane when he was in there, best defensive center I ever saw. He was better than the admiral every year...and that's no small order. Africans can't ball though...lol.

Oh, and unlike the 100 meter dash...which blacks dominate...basketball is a finesse sport that requireS a great deal of skill that must be honed through practice. It's not a measure of speed or strength...stupid example to use. Try slolam skiing or bobsled next.lmao

 

[PKT_VOL]

Ever heard of the Inky Johnson story? Obviously you should have if you are a Vol fan. Well remember this feature that aired on ESPN. Particularly watch from the 1:10-2:15 mark.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B99Go9fOns[/youtube]

How many 6,7,8 year old white kids do you know that are doing extra drills after practice with their mother watching saying I'm gonna make it to the NFL so you don't have to work no more and mean it? How many middle class kids have that level of motivation? We don't even have to make it about race because I'm black and grew up in a middle class neighborhood and didn't have that motivation. My childhood was similar to other middle class kids white or black. I looked at sports as something fun to do. I didn't view in life or death terms like most kids who grow up in the ghetto.

Both my parents were educated professionals so I knew I could use an education to get somewhere in life. Most kids growing up in the ghetto have never seen a lawyer or doctor or banker from their community. So they don't know that its possible to become successful in something other than sports or drugs. The only guys they have ever seen from their community make it legally are athletes. And in turn they all view that as a way out.

The over-representation of black men in professional sports (particularly basketball and football) is CULTURAL not biological.

Cultural, eh? You were just telling me the various problems within the black community were the result of systemic racism and white supremacy.

Funny how that works.

 

[1972 Grad]

Serge Ibaka, a Moute

Merry Christmas to you, too.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

The belief that whites are superior to other races is a myth.

The people who believe in white supremacy and practice it aren't a myth.

Or was that too complicated to understand.

Well I certainly don't know anyone that practices it. And you are the only one I know that preaches it. Perhaps it is your problem.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

While in the ghetto, where many of the great black athletes come from, sports is seen as the only way to make it out. Thus these kids work harder to make it in the sport.

Ask almost any great athlete. Work ethic is what separates the good from the great. Why would it be any different when it comes to making the league?

And that is the epic failure within your...YOUR... community to believe, and reinforce in those kids that athletics is their best chance. That is on your Jessies, your Als, and your societal structure. (Or more appropriately, the lack thereof) That is not my fault. That is not Whitney's fault. It's yours. Congratulations.

It's like buying lottery tickets. Somebody will win, but it won't be you.

 

[SergeantVol]

Ever heard of the Inky Johnson story? Obviously you should have if you are a Vol fan. Well remember this feature that aired on ESPN. Particularly watch from the 1:10-2:15 mark.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B99Go9fOns[/youtube]

How many 6,7,8 year old white kids do you know that are doing extra drills after practice with their mother watching saying I'm gonna make it to the NFL so you don't have to work no more and mean it? How many middle class kids have that level of motivation? We don't even have to make it about race because I'm black and grew up in a middle class neighborhood and didn't have that motivation. My childhood was similar to other middle class kids white or black. I looked at sports as something fun to do. I didn't view in life or death terms like most kids who grow up in the ghetto.

Both my parents were educated professionals so I knew I could use an education to get somewhere in life. Most kids growing up in the ghetto have never seen a lawyer or doctor or banker from their community. So they don't know that its possible to become successful in something other than sports or drugs. The only guys they have ever seen from their community make it legally are athletes. And in turn they all view that as a way out.

The over-representation of black men in professional sports (particularly basketball and football) is CULTURAL not biological.

Again. I did. You never responded to my post. I played football since I could (8 yrs old). I always looked for ways to get better. I was 5'9" and 143 lbs in high school. No one recruited me and I tried out but was unsuccessful because of size. So tell me again about work ethic and I will tell you that you are full of s**t.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

It's such a monumentally absurd assertion it becomes one of those examples that seems to support he's simply a troll messing with people. When people talk "sports" there's a ton of variables. Someone with an elite football IQ can perform well above their "on paper" abilities. For that matter the wily veteran, who isn't nearly as athletic as he used to be, can still keep his job based on experience and smarts. This makes the genetic argument a little tougher to argue in absolute terms.

And then there's things like elite sprinting. This is such an empirical smackdown it's not even funny. First, let's lay some groundwork before we even get to race. Ever hear "you can't teach speed"? I doubt anyone on this forum hasn't. The basic idea is completely race neutral. Speed coaches will say "I can make you faster but I can't make you fast." because if you aren't genetically predisposed to be capable of running really fast no amount of work will get you there. Every single one of us has a genetic limit for any absolute physical act. Sooo...

if there's a caucasian other than Christophe Lemaitre that's legitimately (wind legal etc) gone under 10.00 in the 100m I've not heard of them. That's well over 100 black guys and one white guy. So with the whole world (and that matters as track and field is one of those genuinely international sports) and all of history to draw from you get an athletic benchmark that is one lone outlier short of being completely monoracial.

The "I guess white guys don't try hard enough" assertion simply doesn't hold even a single molecule of water in explaining such a disparity.

I'm glad you brought up running. It actually makes my point more emphatically than anything else.

Is Barack Obama Sr. "black" in your opinion?

I think most people would say he's black. And according to modern social conceptions of race, he is what is stereotypical considered a black African. The reason I bring this up is because you keep saying "black" this "black" that, but almost all of the great "black" sprinters are from just one location on earth. They are either West African or more commonly descended from West Africans slaves in the Caribbean or North America. So just as there is basically no white man that has broken 10 flat in the 100, there is no East, Central, or South African that has done so either. So are East Africans, Central Africans, and South Africans not "black"? Are they genetically something else? Or is there something else going on here than just "race"?

Even more perplexing, for the last 10 years or so, both male and female sprinting has been dominated by just one country. Jamaica. A country with a population of just 2.7 million people has produced almost all of the fastest 100m times in both the men and women's side. Are the people of Jamaica their own race? Do they have different genetics from other black people in the West? I mean the Bahamas and Barbados are close by. Why Jamaica? Who not the Bahamas? Or Barbados? For your theory to be true that athletic prowess can be totally explained by genetics, you would have to prove that Jamaicans are somehow genetically different from all other black people around the globe. Because there are over a billion "black" people globally. And yet all the fastest humans come from just one single island that has 2.7 million people. If this was just about race, you would expect more than just one island of people to dominate a specific event. There is alot more going on than "race" when an Island of just 2.7 million people dominate a specific event in this fashion. If you've followed sprinting, you would know CULTURE plays a huge role in the dominance of Jamaicans on the track. They take sprinting alot more serious over there than in almost any other country. I think that and the environment of Jamaica has alot more to do with their dominance than genetics. If it was just genetics, you would think we would see more Brazilian sprinters dominating the track since Brazil got more West African slaves during the slave trade than the rest of the Americas combined. If it was just about genetics shouldn't there be all these great Nigerian sprinters considering its the most populous country in Africa? But nope. Brazil has no great sprinters. Nigeria has no great sprinters. Just a small Island with 2.7 million people produces all the best sprinters.

And now onto long-distance running. Now everyone knows that the East African nations of Kenya and Ethiopia are the most dominant nations in the world when it comes to long-distance running. Every Olympics they dominate the medal stand in all the long distance events. Would you be surprised if I told you that almost all of the great distance runners in those 2 countries come from just 2 tribes? In Kenya, a nation of 44 million people, almost all of the great distance runners actually come from just one tribe. The Kalenjin. This tribe numbers at just 5 million but has won almost all of the gold medals Kenya has ever won. Here is a pretty good article on them: The harsh, lonely lives of Kenya’s astonishingly gifted runners

So how come only one tribe in Kenya produces all the great distance runners? The answer is the environment. Unlike most of Kenya that is at sea level, the Kalenjin live in the highlands along the Great Rift Valley. The Great Rift Valley is prominent in the story of East African long-distance running because its a piece of elevated land that cuts through East Africa and almost all of the great distance runners come from there. Like Kenya, in Ethiopia, all the great distance runners come from pme tribe (the Oromo). And specifically people from the Oromo tribe that live in the highlands along the Great Rift Valley. Living in this higher elevation is what gives these particular East Africans an advantage. Just as alot of top American athletes go to Denver to train because of the higher elevation, Kenyans and Ethiopians from these specific tribes spend their whole lives in these high elevations and that along with a love for distance running and intense training allows them to dominate the long distance running events.

If this was about "race" how come other tribes don't dominate? Or other "black" people? The truth is athletic dominance is very complex. There are a myraid of factors. Race and genetics seem to just be at the bottom of the list. Environment and culture play a much bigger role. That is why 2.7 million Jamaicans and 5 million Kalenjin dominate the sport of track. The other 1 billion plus "black" people are just like everyone else.

Genetics is just a white supremacists excuse when someone black is better than them.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Summed up beautifully. D4h will never argue this, because it is a coffin nail for his views. Black folks are simply faster. The fact that Usain Bolt is far and away the fastest human in recorded history and is not from the southern US even blows away the excuse that the reason blacks are so fast and strong is because the best slaves were bred with the best slaves to get hybrid vigor. Bolt doesn't come from American slaves in all likelihood. Blacks are just faster. Generally are stronger also due to more muscle, however I will point out that viking progeny dominate the world's strongest man competitions, like Magnus Magnusson and other Nordic dudes with way too many consonants in their last names. South African white guys also do well in those insane contests.

The reason he will never acknowledge this fact is because he would have to recognize the inverse...that when all the cards are on the table, white folks tend to outperform blacks in every measurable way academically. Grade point averages, SAT,ACT,...any standardized test or measure of memory or mental aptitude. There are always exceptions to the rule, 1 of my black sisters is very smart and a poor athlete, there are whites that are great athletes but not very bright. Exceptions are just that though, outliers, not the rule

These differences don't make any race of people "better" than any other race. Just different. Corvettes are fast, dump trucks are powerful. Does that make a corvette "better" than a dumper? No. They are both good at what they do. We need to quit with the PC bullcrap and the hate and just accept eachother. Embrace our differences, that's what makes America great. Doesn't matter who you are or what you came from, if you work hard here you can raise a family and have a good life. Success varies based on decisions and effort.

Everybody needs to quit whining, put on their boots and get to work. Life is hard and our country is in bad shape financially. We need everyone to pull their weight so we can work our way out of decades of excess spending.

Actually I just demolished his argument in my post above. I would suggest you read it as well.

Usain Bolt is the fastest man in recorded history because he is individually special. Jamaica as a nation dominates sprinting because of their culture. If it was just about race or genetics then why not the Bahamas? That is another small Caribbean island nation made up of descendants of West African slaves? Or better yet why not Nigeria? The most populous black nation on earth with a population of 174 million black people? If its all about genetics or race why do all the great sprinters come from just 2.7 million people in Jamaica? While there is a huge nation in West Africa like Nigeria with 174 million people? There is something more going on here than genetics or race. Its primarily CULTURE and ENVIRONMENT.

Like I said earlier, genetics is just the white supremacists new excuse for when someone is better than them. They would rather admit a black person has some inherent advantage over them they can't control than facing the reality the black person just worked harder and wanted it more than them. Jamaica dominates sprinting because they want it more. There are a billion other black people that look like them, have similar genes, and histories, yet Nigeria and the Bahamas are sitting at home watching Jamaica dominate the Olympics just like all other white and Asian nations.

There is no evidence Jamaicans were born with any genetic advantage over anyone. They just wanted it more and worked harder to achieve it.

 

[tumscalcium]

Actually I just demolished his argument in my post above. I would suggest you read it as well.

Usain Bolt is the fastest man in recorded history because he is individually special. Jamaica as a nation dominates sprinting because of their culture. If it was just about race or genetics then why not the Bahamas? That is another small Caribbean island nation made up of descendants of West African slaves? Or better yet why not Nigeria? The most populous black nation on earth with a population of 174 million black people? If its all about genetics or race why do all the great sprinters come from just 2.7 million people in Jamaica? While there is a huge nation in West Africa like Nigeria with 174 million people? There is something more going on here than genetics or race. Its primarily CULTURE and ENVIRONMENT.

Like I said earlier, genetics is just the white supremacists new excuse for when someone is better than them. They would rather admit a black person has some inherent advantage over them they can't control than facing the reality the black person just worked harder and wanted it more than them. Jamaica dominates sprinting because they want it more. There are a billion other black people that look like them, have similar genes, and histories, yet Nigeria and the Bahamas are sitting at home watching Jamaica dominate the Olympics just like all other white and Asian nations.

There is no evidence Jamaicans were born with any genetic advantage over anyone. They just wanted it more and worked harder to achieve it.

So you admit black people lacking behind other races in this country is a result of a violent and lazy culture. That's refreshing.

Or are you saying that when black people succed it's because they worked hard, when white people succeed it's because of white supremacy?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Big difference in human development was nutrition. Protein heavy diets created big old dudes. A good modern example is North and South Korea. Because of the nutritional deficines in N.Korea they are on average several inches shorter than their southern counterparts.

Every time I have been to Africa I seldom saw any natives that remotely resembled the average American black. Most were skinny and not tall, most likely due to lack of nutrition and colonialism (obviously).

Funny thing though, I was always treated better by the locals than my black counterparts. :birgits_giggle:

Some locals in Sierra Leone offered to cut down a tree and hand carve us a canoe for a box of glowsticks...I think they thought they were magic or something...

That you for proving white supremacy.

Africans treating someone white better than they do their own people.

That is what white supremacy does. It causes black people to hate themselves and to worship whites. And Africans are among the most afflicted by white supremacy.

 

[tumscalcium]

That you for proving white supremacy.

Africans treating someone white better than they do their own people.

That is what white supremacy does. It causes black people to hate themselves and to worship whites. And Africans are among the most afflicted by white supremacy.

Your jealousy knows no bounds. It's nice you think of white people as the greatest people.

Thanks

 

[Grand Vol]

Like I said earlier, genetics is just the white supremacists new excuse for when someone is better than them. They would rather admit a black person has some inherent advantage over them they can't control than facing the reality the black person just worked harder and wanted it more than them.

Dang. I never knew Larry Bird was black. Or Peyton for that matter.

Did Wayne Gretzky have to sit in the back of the bus? Michael Phelps end up being discriminated against?

Did Emil Zátopek ever have white supremacists going off about his genetics?

Your theory, much like your posts, sucks as usual.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

For knowing so much about Africa, you forget about Hakeem Olajuwon, and Mutombo.

I said best players of the last 15 years. Olajuwon retired in 2002 and was in his prime during the 90s. Mutombo was also more of a player from the 90s era.

And I never said there weren't any good African players. Just that the racist theory that its all about race and genetics is true, then shouldn't the overwhelming majority of international players be African? There's definitely a healthy share of African-born players making it into the NBA. But the majority of international players are white European and white South Americans.

If dominance in basketball was tied to race or genetics shouldn't there be a black African-born player better than Norwitzki in the last 15 years? And shouldn't there be a black nation either in Africa or a team like France that has alot of players of African descent that should be the United States biggest rival in international competition? Instead a white guy like Dirk Norwitzki is the best foreign-born player of the last 15 years. And a nearly all-white team like Spain is the best non-US nation in the last 15 years of international competition.

Stop blaming genetics cause you stink at basketball

 

[tumscalcium]

Stop blaming genetics cause you stink at basketball

One should tell you to quit blaming white people because you suck at life.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Again. I did. You never responded to my post. I played football since I could (8 yrs old). I always looked for ways to get better. I was 5'9" and 143 lbs in high school. No one recruited me and I tried out but was unsuccessful because of size. So tell me again about work ethic and I will tell you that you are full of s**t.

Inky Johnson was also 5'9" and he made it.

Stop blaming genetics for your failures.

You just didn't want it as bad as a kid from the ghetto.

 

[FleeceItOut]

It's sad that there are people like D4H in the world. So much hatred built up for no reason.

He's obviously super racist and I would be interested to see how he interacts with people in the real world and not behind a keyboard.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

One should tell you to quit blaming white people because you suck at life.

Where do you get the idea I suck at life? I've never said anything about myself. I keep my arguments about how to make this country and society better. And how to make things more equal and just.

You guys are the ones that keep bringing up your personal struggles and blaming it in others. I'm talking about societal problems that affect other people and how to make it better.

 

[tumscalcium]

Where do you get the idea I suck at life? I've never said anything about myself. I keep my arguments about how to make this country and society better. And how to make things more equal and just.

You guys are the ones that keep bringing up your personal struggles and blaming it in others. I'm talking about societal problems that affect other people and how to make it better.

You in a general term. But it's clear from your ramblings that you personally suck at life as well.

You're all over the place. You say white people blame genetics when black people are athletically superior when black people just work harder. But when white people are superior in other areas you blame white supremacy and not that white people work harder in those areas. Your laughable and can't be taken seriously.

But please continue with your racist hate rhetoric. It's entertaining.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

So you admit black people lacking behind other races in this country is a result of a violent and lazy culture. That's refreshing.

Or are you saying that when black people succed it's because they worked hard, when white people succeed it's because of white supremacy?

Black people are struggling in America because of white supremacy. It has brainwashed the population into believing they are inferior. Its not that black culture is violent or lazy. Its been made to be violent and lazy by white supremacy.

If black people are allowed to learn their true history rather than the lies to white supremacy, we can return to the glory of Ancient Mali, Ancient Egypt, and the Moorish reign.

 

[tumscalcium]

Black people are struggling in America because of white supremacy. It has brainwashed the population into believing they are inferior. Its not that black culture is violent or lazy. Its been made to be violent and lazy by white supremacy.

If black people are allowed to learn their true history rather than the lies to white supremacy, we can return to the glory of Ancient Mali, Ancient Egypt, and the Moorish reign.

They just need to work harder like white people, right? You'll never succeed until you accept responsibility for your problems.

Btw, this post of yours is off the deep end.

You're like the alcoholic who still blames beer for his problems.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You in a general term. But it's clear from your ramblings that you personally suck at life as well.

You're all over the place. You say white people blame genetics when black people are athletically superior when black people just work harder. But when white people are superior in other areas you blame white supremacy and not that white people work harder in those areas. Your laughable and can't be taken seriously.

But please continue with your racist hate rhetoric. It's entertaining.

There are many successful black people that are outspoken on race issues. This idea that if you are successful you have nothing to complain about might be true for white people. But those of us who are black and who identify and empathize with our people, no amount of money will make us comfortable with the way things are in this country.

As long as the majority of black people are suffering those of us with good conscience will continue to fight for justice.

 

[tumscalcium]

There are many successful black people that are outspoken on race issues. This idea that if you are successful you have nothing to complain about might be true for white people. But those of us who are black and who identify and empathize with our people, no amount of money will make us comfortable with the way things are in this country.

As long as the majority of black people are suffering those of us with good conscience will continue to fight for justice.

You're just making things up at this point. I never said what you're responding to.

 

[Burger]

Black people are struggling in America because of white supremacy. It has brainwashed the population into believing they are inferior. Its not that black culture is violent or lazy. Its been made to be violent and lazy by white supremacy.

If black people are allowed to learn their true history rather than the lies to white supremacy, we can return to the glory of Ancient Mali, Ancient Egypt, and the Moorish reign.

That would require going back 2k years in technology. There's a reason why those great African civilizations got beaten by armies 1/10th their size.