Is Helfrich @ OC a legit discussion?

#276
#276
Regardless of what Tennessee does, LSU is doing it right. They have a head coach who the players love, that on his own may not be the best, but they are surrounding him with some of the best coaches in America.

I really hope Tennessee does the same and Butch is willing to release some of his control on the program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#277
#277
LSU-SIU said:
Yeah, I can see that point of view, he has a lot to live up to. I can say this though... there was drastic improvement in LSU after Les was let go. Whether it was special teams or the offense or lack of penalties, or just being more organized.

Although the Florida game was probably kind of let down, it really did look like LSU was back to playing Tiger football after he took over. If we are going to give the coach all the blame for the bad play, at some point you have give him a little credit for the good play.

I'm glad to see Coach O and Ensminger will continue to be on staff... they earned their money this year. Whether Coach O will earn being the coach long-term is yet to be proven.

Its not like there is whole bunch of coaches I would have liked to see take over anyhow.

(sorry but I might have derailed the thread a little)
Click to expand...

I look at Coach O like a pinch hitter in baseball. In certain spots/situations, he can deliver a big hit and never has to play defense. You probably don't want him being an everyday player. He does have a track record of success at improving a team's play and energy level after the team underachieves and their HC gets fired. That's an oddly specific thing to have a track record of success at, but credit where credit is due. He's 11-4 (10-3) as an interim HC at two big schools.

However, it's hard to overstate just how bad Ole Miss was when the program was his to run.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#278
#278
Coach O was 10-25 overall at Ole Miss and 3-21 in the SEC. He then went 6-2 at USC and 5-2 at LSU.

I wonder if at Ole Miss he tried to control everything, similar to Butch, and now has learned to surround himself with great coaches and let them do their thing.
 
#280
#280
landscapingvol said:
If you are the definition of the "grown-ups" class then I will kindly stay where I am in reality. Do let me know when Gruden signs his contract, won't you kindly? Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Wtf are you even talking about? I haven't even mentioned Gruden's name so I'm not even sure what that means. Although he would be my first choice as a HC. You're a weird dude brother.
 
#281
#281
jasonvol18 said:
Wtf are you even talking about? I haven't even mentioned Gruden's name so I'm not even sure what that means. Although he would be my first choice as a HC. You're a weird dude brother.
Click to expand...

You should take a trip down memory lane from about 4 years ago :popcorn: The others have faded into history.
 
#282
#282
CTM said:
Aren't most good coaches micromanagers?
If they are not, when things go bad, they still take the heat, regardless, they have to have their finger on everything, if you think Saban does not, you are mistaken,
he is a detail guy.
Click to expand...

I'm reminded of the story from the New York Giants of the 1950s, where a reporter said that he walked past the offensive coordinator's office to see the OC (Vince Lombardi) breaking down film, the defensive coordinator's office to see the DC (Tom Landry) devising a game plan, and the head coach's office to see the head coach (Jim Lee Howell) with his feet up reading a newspaper.

Most good coaches aren't necessarily micromanagers as much as that they tend to have an uncanny ability to identify loose ends and tie them up. Or in the case of Howell, delegate almost everything to your micromanaging coordinators while you're responsible for morale and little else.
 
#283
#283
RDU VOL#14 said:
Oh For **** sake ...the triple option? Your agenda is clear, but come on. Let's bring on Paul Johnson.
Click to expand...

Fine by me. If he needs an offensive line coach who has zero learning curve with that offense, I can make myself available next year.:rock:
 
#284
#284
LSU-SIU said:
Some of the words I heard on Monday were bizarre, strange, and weird. As far as Oregon football, not going to work unless you have a power running game in the SEC. There is a big difference between what Urban Meyer does and what Oregon, Texas A&M, Missouri, etc. do.
Click to expand...

Oregon had a lot more of a power running game than they're given credit for. When I was watching them a lot more closely (when Mariota was there), they ran a crapload of buck sweep and counter trey, plus receiver screens that actually worked. Those are my three least favorite offensive plays in all of football, and they made it both entertaining and successful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#285
#285
LSU-SIU said:
Yeah, I can see that point of view, he has a lot to live up to. I can say this though... there was drastic improvement in LSU after Les was let go. Whether it was special teams or the offense or lack of penalties, or just being more organized.

Although the Florida game was probably kind of let down, it really did look like LSU was back to playing Tiger football after he took over. If we are going to give the coach all the blame for the bad play, at some point you have give him a little credit for the good play.

I'm glad to see Coach O and Ensminger will continue to be on staff... they earned their money this year. Whether Coach O will earn being the coach long-term is yet to be proven.

Its not like there is whole bunch of coaches I would have liked to see take over anyhow.

(sorry but I might have derailed the thread a little)
Click to expand...
That happens a lot. Sparks the team. Hell UT looked tons better when Dooley was fired and Chaney coached the last game. Doesn't mean he should have been hired. It's a terrible hire.
 
#286
#286
Roustabout said:
That happens a lot. Sparks the team. Hell UT looked tons better when Dooley was fired and Chaney coached the last game. Doesn't mean he should have been hired. It's a terrible hire.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you are right or wrong, let's say you are right. Who is your hire? Considering the total situation.

Desperation was Jacksonville State where the crowd was booing which then lead to Etling replacing Harris and more/less saving the game... this bought Miles/Cameron a few more weeks.

All of sudden when Miles/Cameron are gone everything magically goes back to Tiger football... no more late play calls coming in, penalties magically start to go down, the game flows like old Tiger football. Other than the Florida game, I feel pretty much LSU played near 100% of their capacity except for the Florida game.

Whether Coach O is the medium/long term solution, I agree, he is suspect... he even alludes to this, that he has to prove his worth. The question then is, if not Coach O... then who? The answer is probably there is no homerun hire... so I believe the thinking process is to make the whole coaching staff around him great. Whether it was Les or Cameron, what was going on with the offense at times should not be happening... that is on them. Ensminger was an upgrade to Cameron/Les in every way.

My take is, Coach O is a bunt, plus Aranda/Canada get them to third base... hire a good special teams coach and that gets you home... its not as sexy as a homerun but its still worth a run.

People want sexy hires, Coach O isn't... he looks horrible in a two piece. I look at Coach O as kind of a Miles v2.0, manager of the team. The problem with Miles is he is stubborn, which is a pro and con, but he refused to adjust.... it was time for Les to leave.
 
Last edited:
#287
#287
Did they even interview a PJ Fleck for example? Dan Mullen? Dana Holgerson? I am not saying any of those guys would jump but you fire Les Miles because of his stale offensive philosophy and replace him with a guy who has zero offensive coaching experience? I get it they struck out on Herman and Fisher but Orgeron had a worse head coaching record than Kiffin. At least LSU was willing to pay top money for two coordinators so maybe it will pay off.
 
#289
#289
landscapingvol said:
Did they even interview a PJ Fleck for example? Dan Mullen? Dana Holgerson? I am not saying any of those guys would jump but you fire Les Miles because of his stale offensive philosophy and replace him with a guy who has zero offensive coaching experience? I get it they struck out on Herman and Fisher but Orgeron had a worse head coaching record than Kiffin. At least LSU was willing to pay top money for two coordinators so maybe it will pay off.
Click to expand...

That is the important part. Dabo Sweeney was failing at Clemson to the point where the phrase "clemsoning" gained popularity. (If you haven't seen the press conference of Dabo getting made at that phrase, you should. Gold) So what did he do? He went out and surrounded himself with an all star staff with venables and Chad Morris before he left.

Orgeron can succeed at LSU, but he will have to rely on top notch assistants. I hope Butch took notes and upgrades our staff as well.
 
#290
#290
landscapingvol said:
Did they even interview a PJ Fleck for example? Dan Mullen? Dana Holgerson? I am not saying any of those guys would jump but you fire Les Miles because of his stale offensive philosophy and replace him with a guy who has zero offensive coaching experience? I get it they struck out on Herman and Fisher but Orgeron had a worse head coaching record than Kiffin. At least LSU was willing to pay top money for two coordinators so maybe it will pay off.
Click to expand...

If LSU hired any of the guys you mentioned other than Herman or Jimbo people would say that would have been a strike out. LSU was not going to sign what amounted to a $100m deal for Jimbo and LSU was not going to pay Saban type money for Herman, Herman wanted a bidding war.

Fleck is interesting but not a surprise when he has no real experience in a big program as HC. If that is the best someone can come up with, it shouldn't be hard to see the issue. Just my take. I don't think Holgerson would make it a year before the fans ran him out of town with that crap he runs.

None of the guys you mentioned really other than Jimbo would be considered homeruns, and that includes Herman... Herman would have been a good risk though.
 
#291
#291
LSU-SIU said:
If LSU hired any of the guys you mentioned other than Herman or Jimbo people would say that would have been a strike out. LSU was not going to sign what amounted to a $100m deal for Jimbo and LSU was not going to pay Saban type money for Herman, Herman wanted a bidding war.

Fleck is interesting but not a surprise when he has no real experience in a big program as HC. If that is the best someone can come up with, it shouldn't be hard to see the issue. Just my take. I don't think Holgerson would make it a year before the fans ran him out of town with that crap he runs.

None of the guys you mentioned really other than Jimbo would be considered homeruns, and that includes Herman... Herman would have been a good risk though.
Click to expand...

Merely suggested offensive minded coaches and it's not as if Orgeron isn't a very risky choice. The guy is a kook and does not handle criticism well. It's easy to be an interim coach with tons of talent and no pressure. He had nothing to lose at SC or LSU. It was very likely he was never getting either job. The pressure to win will be very great with little room for error.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#292
#292
landscapingvol said:
Merely suggested offensive minded coaches and it's not as if Orgeron isn't a very risky choice. The guy is a kook and does not handle criticism well. It's easy to be an interim coach with tons of talent and no pressure. He had nothing to lose at SC or LSU. It was very likely he was never getting either job. The pressure to win will be very great with little room for error.
Click to expand...

He gets real sensitive about his school's strikeout on this hire and reverts to the "refusal to get pulled into a bidding war" over Herman. :) He told me I was angry and blocked me, so if you want to join me echo that Herman was never going anywhere but Texas after Texas had an opening, and the "bidding war" is their default excuse on that. He'll go on your profile and try to find something personal to zing you with first...did the ORIGINAL thing with me and blustered about my post count and having no life. :lol:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#293
#293
LSU-SIU said:
If LSU hired any of the guys you mentioned other than Herman or Jimbo people would say that would have been a strike out. LSU was not going to sign what amounted to a $100m deal for Jimbo and LSU was not going to pay Saban type money for Herman, Herman wanted a bidding war.

Fleck is interesting but not a surprise when he has no real experience in a big program as HC. If that is the best someone can come up with, it shouldn't be hard to see the issue. Just my take. I don't think Holgerson would make it a year before the fans ran him out of town with that crap he runs.

None of the guys you mentioned really other than Jimbo would be considered homeruns, and that includes Herman... Herman would have been a good risk though.
Click to expand...

3337x as many. :)
 
#294
#294
landscapingvol said:
Merely suggested offensive minded coaches and it's not as if Orgeron isn't a very risky choice. The guy is a kook and does not handle criticism well. It's easy to be an interim coach with tons of talent and no pressure. He had nothing to lose at SC or LSU. It was very likely he was never getting either job. The pressure to win will be very great with little room for error.
Click to expand...

Maybe so/maybe not but again what is the alternative? Its really easy to say who isn't the guy than to stick a name out there, given the whole situation not sure there was better overall option. LSU still owes Les $10m plus, LSU still owed Cam Cameron through the year, LSU was going to have to fight to keep Aranda as others were making inquiries.

Anyone that has a name as a homerun... most probably that person is a complete a-hole, Jimbo is a half of one. There is no homerun hire... Saban recommended LSU hire Houston Nutt when he left.

Its easy to say who not to hire.
 
#295
#295
LSU-SIU said:
Maybe so/maybe not but again what is the alternative? Its really easy to say who isn't the guy than to stick a name out there, given the whole situation not sure there was better overall option. LSU still owes Les $10m plus, LSU still owed Cam Cameron through the year, LSU was going to have to fight to keep Aranda as others were making inquiries.

Anyone that has a name as a homerun... most probably that person is a complete a-hole, Jimbo is a half of one. There is no homerun hire... Saban recommended LSU hire Houston Nutt when he left.

Its easy to say who not to hire.
Click to expand...

I am not disagreeing. It's just puzzling that LSU had such offensive woes but didn't hire an offensive minded coach. That puts a lot of pressure on the Orgeron
 
#296
#296
landscapingvol said:
I am not disagreeing. It's just puzzling that LSU had such offensive woes but didn't hire an offensive minded coach. That puts a lot of pressure on the Orgeron
Click to expand...

I think what you are saying was the general plan (Jimbo or Herman), of course:

"you don't always get what you want" -Rolling Stones

Jimbo has always made sense to come back to Baton Rouge but it is what it is. I mean within minutes of Coach O being hired as interim he made a great decision and fired Cam Cameron. The offense greatly improved and when I say greatly I mean it.... now with that said Alabama's DL completely destroyed LSU's OL.... I thought everywhere else on the field LSU had just as good a team or even better. The Florida game was a let down but overall I felt like LSU was back to playing Tiger ball from 8-10 years ago. LSU needed help against Alabama, there has to be thinking process similar to how Aranda runs the defense.

Coach O + Aranda + Canada = one paper a B+/A (could improve or go down with a special teams coach hire)

The disaster could have been if Aranda left after Coach O was named, which was a possibility. Sounds like Aranda is very happy and can now take his TV off the cardboard box and put it up on the wall now. (he did an interview the other day saying he still had his TV on a box because he didn't know how long he would be in baton rouge lol)

You are not wrong, you are actually in line with what the administration was thinking the problem is that the world doesn't always cooperate. :)

I actually think Ensminger did a super job as interim OC, glad he is staying on board. But at the end of the day, LSU did need some help getting past Alabama... maybe Canada has something to offer.
 
#297
#297
I think LSU did the smart thing. I think Herman is a 50/50 proposition. Yeah, they looked great against OU and Louisville, but couldn't even win their bad division in their bad conference. Plus Houston has been pretty good for a while. I think the guy from Temple is a better coach. Herman can recruit though.
 
#298
#298
LSU is about to get a dose of what UT has been through. I believe Miles was done but to put that douche in charge of your football team, is a total train wreck or it will be. The only person O cares about is himself. And, he was probably twisting the knife in Miles back every time he got a chance.

The rah, rah guy can only get you so far anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#299
#299
With the pressure coach O is under now I also think it's only a matter of time before he gets LSU in serious trouble with the NCAA.

Time will tell but he's never been a man of Honor and Honesty as we here at Tennessee well know.

laMe kiffScum and coach O are 2 peas in a pod which is wy they're such good friends.

VFL...GBO!!!
 
#300
#300
Sark hired at Bama, so no helfrich to bama. I really wish we could get him here so bad.

Guarantano and Helfrich would be outstanding together.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top