This is how you know Dobbs is ready for the season

[wmcovol]

This is just fabricated nonsense. Since the stats don't back up your presumptive notion that he doesn't have accuracy issues you resort to a hypothesis claiming he's a rhythm passer"??

Love me some Dobbs but why don't we all stop acting like he's an elite passer and at the same time agree he's is very good passer. Listen, if Dobbs didn't have some accuracy issues (that shows up on "film") then he'd be #1 on Kipers big board. He has all the other tools which is why he'll get drafted but the NFL is a throwing league and if they see you might not be an elite thrower then you are looked at as 2nd tier draft material.

Dobbs doesn't make Mel's top 5 Seniors not to mention Deshaun Watson ahead of the pack..

SENIORS
Davis Webb, Cal
Mitch Leidner, Minnesota
Chad Kelly, Ole Miss
C.J. Beathard, Iowa
Cooper Rush, Central Michigan

If Josh becomes a better passer he will climb the board. If not, he's still one of the best college QBs in America, period; plenty capable of winning a national title with his current skill set.

Thank God Josh isn't a CJ Beathard.......haven't we seen him somewhere?

 

[The Artful Dodger]

9 pages into this thread and the resounding argument is not how good Dobbs can be, or how bad he was, it's simply recognizing that he has ONE fault, YES ONE!!!! He has struggled with his accuracy.

Yet 9 pages into just this thread you continue to make excuses for a guy that has admitted, along with his own coaches, that he needs to improve his accuracy. Can you not, for once, put down your pride and realize that no one here hates Dobbs or wishes bad things on him. Or God knows (shhh, wants him off the field because he's black!?) come on man, this is the 21st century. We could care less what skin color our QB has.

Pretty sure everyone here cares only about the color PMS 151 Orange...

Gotta agree. Its not like Tennessee had the first black QB to start in the SEC. I seem to be forgetting his nickname at the moment.:whistling:

 

[KBVol]

9 pages into this thread and the resounding argument is not how good Dobbs can be, or how bad he was, it's simply recognizing that he has ONE fault, YES ONE!!!! He has struggled with his accuracy.

Yet 9 pages into just this thread you continue to make excuses for a guy that has admitted, along with his own coaches, that he needs to improve his accuracy. Can you not, for once, put down your pride and realize that no one here hates Dobbs or wishes bad things on him. Or God knows (shhh, wants him off the field because he's black!?) come on man, this is the 21st century. We could care less what skin color our QB has.

Pretty sure everyone here cares only about the color PMS 151 Orange...

Excellent post. Very well, and accurately, said.

 

[Stoked]

At least he doesn't end every damn post with "Jump higher Vols!"

Haha dam son!

 

[Orange_Crush]

No, I never said there were "only 6 drops last year". Here's my give and take with D4H, the post that has you so irritated....

Originally Posted by Dobbs 4 Heisman:
Josh Smith had a couple early drops in the South Carolina game that the commentators talked about. Von Pearson dropped one on a big 3rd down versus Florida that Verne and Gary talked about.

There are many others. I just remember those cause I've been doing film study of those 2 games recently.

My response....

No there aren't. There aren't many others. And so what are we up to now? About 6.....over the course of 13 games and 344 pass attempts? Laugh...the hell....out loud.


Where exactly did I say "there were only 6 drops last year? Answer is, I didn't. I was referring to "all the examples" that had been given to date to that point....which was about 6. You either misunderstood my comment or deliberately miscontrued it.

If I misconstrued, then I apologize. But perhaps you can understand how someone could misconstrue the above bolded?

recap:

D4H. I gave a couple of examples off the top of my head, but there were a lot (dropped balls) that haven't been mentioned.


Your response. No there were not a lot (dropped balls) more. We are up to six (dropped balls) for the season.

Do you see how you (apparently) switched references mid-stream? From dropped balls to examples given? Would you expect people who can follow reference relationships to infer that you didn't?

And for that record, what exact point were you trying to make? D4H listed a couple of examples off the top of his head, but mentioned dropped balls as a problem. Your logic was that b/c D4H didn't list every one, the dropped balls didn't happen, and it wasn't a problem? Even after I quoted article(s) that discussed dropped balls as a problem? And having quoted the article(s), you doubled down by mocking me for showing the problem?

So, your logic is that it wasn't a problem unless someone lists every single dropped ball? Yet it's mock-worthy when someone posts research to support their position?

Interesting...

 

[Biopsyman]

Modeling his new space suit

 

[The Artful Dodger]

D4H,I applaud you for extolling Dobbs virtues. He is a great QB and student-athlete. He does suffer from inaccuracy at times though. There is hope. Does anyone remember Crompton? Under Clawson,he couldn't complete a 5 yard pass. He was the worst QB I had ever saw start for us. The next season under Kiffin,he was amazingly improved. Most all QBs improve in their senior campaign. Go Vols!!!

As much as I hate to say it, Crompton had the benefit of a really good QB coach in Kiffin. Dobbs has no such luxury. I like Debord, but his area of expertise is offensive line. The blame for not having a permanent QB coach has to fall on Butch. Surprising, considering a strong passing game seems to be the only thing holding this offense back. Relatively speaking of course, because the offense is pretty potent as is.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

NFL Draft - 2017 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (Dobbs rated #3 best QB)

https://n.rivals.com/news/farrell-ranking-the-top-32-prospects-for-the-2017-nfl-draft (Dobbs not listed in top 32 prospects, 2 QB's are in Kaaya and Watson)

WalterFootball.com: 2017 NFL Draft: Quarterback Rankings (Dobbs #6 best QB)

https://n.rivals.com/news/2017-nfl-draft-ranking-the-top-five-quarterback-prospects (Dobbs not listed as a top 5 QB in 2017)

Mel Kiper 2017 draft position rankings: Quarterbacks led by Deshaun Watson & Cal transfer - Niners Nation (Kiper doesn't seem to think Dobbs is a top prospect for next year, not even listed in top 5 seniors or top 10 QB's overall)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...uarterbacks-who-could-emerge-as-top-prospects (Does not list Dobbs as an emerging top QB prospect)

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/05/02/nfl-mock-draft-2017-top-prospects (SI has 4 QB's taken in first round, Dobbs is not one of them, doesn't show where he is rated)

http://247sports.com/Gallery/nfl-draft-2017-todd-mcshay-releases-way-too-early-2017-mock-45197049 (McShays too early 2017 mock draft has 3 QB's in the first round, Dobbs not one of them)



There are many, many others. The point here is yes, you may find one or two analysts that rate Dobbs high, but there are also others that rate him much lower. So, you cannot cherry pick the ones that consider him high but completely discount the others. You need some objectivity.

I don't discount the others. I make a point of mentioning the few guys who rate Dobbs highly to show that there are some people who agree with me. That Dobbs does have high NFL potential.

I've never tried to suggest he was a consensus first rounder like Watson or even Kaaya. Just that he's a lot more highly regarded than many on here want to believe.

Maybe you don't remember but I remember a thread shortly after the season about who could get drafted in 2017 from our team and a majority of posters were trying to argue that Dobbs was undraftable. Obviously that is wrong now.

 

[KBVol]

If I misconstrued, then I apologize. But perhaps you can understand how someone could misconstrue the above bolded?

recap:

D4H. I gave a couple of examples off the top of my head, but there were a lot (dropped balls) that haven't been mentioned.


Your response. No there were not a lot (dropped balls) more. We are up to six (dropped balls) for the season.

Do you see how you (apparently) switched references mid-stream? From dropped balls to examples given? Would you expect people who can follow reference relationships to infer that you can't?

And for that record, what exact point were you trying to make? D4H listed a couple of examples off the top of his head, but mentioned dropped balls as a problem. Your logic was that b/c D4H didn't list every one, the dropped balls didn't happen, and it wasn't a problem? Even after I quoted article(s) that discussed dropped balls as a problem? And having quoted the article(s), you doubled down by mocking me for showing the problem?

So, your logic is that it wasn't a problem unless someone lists every single dropped ball? Yet it's mock-worthy when someone posts research to support their position?

Interesting...

You're trying wayyyy to hard here.

Let me see if I can convey to you just how simple a discussion it was....

1. I noticed that those advocating for Dobbs poor completion % and accuracy always included the throwaway line "there were a lot of dropped passes"

2. I simply asked, remind me of all the dropped passes...give me examples. If it was such a big problem with the passing game, I suggested that it wouldn't be difficult to cite a lot them off the top of one's head.

3. No one ever gave me any specific examples outside of Malone's drop vs SCar until this thread began. Since then you've said we had 5 drops vs Arky and another poster mentioned the awful Ellis drop vs Oklahoma....I responded with "touché".

4. Not once have I said there were only 6 total dropped passes last year. I was mocking D4H inability to give any specific examples beyond the ones I provided and about 3 others....."which had us up to about 6" at that point.

5. Of course there were dropped passes last season and of course there were more than 6 total. Every team has them, no one's perfect, it's part of the game.

The point is, unless someone can provide specific data that points to an inordinate amount of drops by our WR Corps and clearly define it as a primary factor for our passing woes last year, then it just shouldn't be included as a primary issue, especially in comparison to factors like Dobbs' accuracy issues, the WRs inability to create good separation, OL early season protection issues. If some can definitively show that our guys dropped more passes than the average SEC/NCAA college football team last year and it impacted our passing game like those other factors, then I'll gladly submit, admit I was wrong and "tip my hat"......despite Darth Shiveman's insistence to the contrary.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You're trying wayyyy to hard here.

Let me see if I can convey to you just how simple a discussion it was....

1. I noticed that those advocating for Dobbs poor completion % and accuracy always included the throwaway line "there were a lot of dropped passes"

2. I simply asked, remind me of all the dropped passes...give me examples. If it was such a big problem with the passing game, I suggested that it wouldn't be difficult to cite a lot them off the top of one's head.

3. No one ever gave me any specific examples outside of Malone's drop vs SCar until this thread began. Since then you've said we had 5 drops vs Arky and another poster mentioned the awful Ellis drop vs Oklahoma....I responded with "touché".

4. Not once have I said there were only 6 total dropped passes last year. I was mocking D4H inability to give any specific examples beyond the ones I provided and about 3 others....."which had us up to about 6" at that point.

5. Of course there were dropped passes last season and of course there were more than 6 total. Every team has them, no one's perfect, it's part of the game.

The point is, unless someone can provide specific data that points to an inordinate amount of drops by our WR Corps and clearly define it as a primary factor for our passing woes last year, then it just shouldn't be included as a primary issue, especially in comparison to factors like Dobbs' accuracy issues, the WRs inability to create good separation, OL early season protection issues. If some can definitively show that our guys dropped more passes than the average SEC/NCAA college football team last year and it impacted our passing game like those other factors, then I'll gladly submit, admit I was wrong and "tip my hat"......despite Darth Shiveman's insistence to the contrary.

It may or may not show, for whatever it's worth, but I'm not having to try that hard. It's pretty easy to parse the written word. I tried to make it easy by bolding the subjects in reference.

And you did not respond with "touche". You ignored the article I posted, except to discount it and mock the fact that I looked it up and quoted it. That gave me an indication that you're in this conversation with an agenda. For the record, I don't necessarily think it's an anti-Dobbs agenda. I just think that you want desperately to rub D4H's nose in something. (For whatever it's worth, I don't think he needs your help looking foolish. You could forego looking foolish and let him dig his own holes.)

You've also set a criteria for evidence that you don't seem to want to keep for your side of the argument--i.e. I'll speak in generalities about the severity of Dobbs' accuracy issue while requiring that you give the number of specific examples of dropped passes that I see fit.

I mean, heck... I guess we'll play that game. I'll admit that drops were not a real problem last year and we'll take for granted that Dobbs' accuracy was pretty good. That is, until you list every pass that Dobbs threw that was inaccurate--taking into account the route that the receiver was supposed to run, etc... Until you give us definitive proof about every missed pass, and exactly why it was inaccurate, we'll be at an impasse.

Or we could just both agree that Dobbs has had accuracy problems, the receivers stank it up quite often as well, and we hope they all make strides this year.

I don't know about you, but that sounds like a reasonable place to land. :hi:

 

[Orange_Crush]

If some can definitively show that our guys dropped more passes than the average SEC/NCAA college football team last year and it impacted our passing game like those other factors, then I'll gladly submit, admit I was wrong and "tip my hat"......despite Darth Shiveman's insistence to the contrary.

And again... It's funny that this is the criteria that you present for your acceptance.

PASSING YARDS LEADERS - ALL PLAYERS
RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RAT
1 Chad Kelly, QB MISS 298 458 65.1 4042 8.8 73 31 13 18 155.9
2 Dak Prescott, QB MSST 316 477 66.2 3793 8.0 63 29 5 32 151.0
3 Brandon Allen, QB ARK 244 370 65.9 3440 9.3 71 30 8 14 166.5
4 Jake Coker, QB ALA 263 393 66.9 3110 7.9 81 21 8 25 147.0
5 Joshua Dobbs, QB TENN 205 344 59.6 2291 6.7 75 15 5 21 127.0
6 Kyle Allen, QB TA&M 160 283 56.5 2210 7.8 95 17 7 23 137.0
7 Brandon Harris, QB LSU 149 277 53.8 2165 7.8 67 13 6 17 130.6
8 Patrick Towles, QB UK 183 326 56.1 2148 6.6 53 9 14 25 112.0
9 Greyson Lambert, QB UGA 162 256 63.3 1959 7.7 48 12 2 11 141.5
10 Perry Orth, QB SC 143 261 54.8 1929 7.4 78 12 9 17 125.1

Josh Dobbs was exactly average in SEC completion % last year. lol Unless you do a pass-by-pass breakdown from last year, we really can't trust your assertion that Josh Dobbs was as bad a passer as you claim.

 

[sechamp2012]

Dobbs completed 100% of the Jet Sweep passes so he perfect on the ultra short pass. No under or over throws ... spot on

 

[jakez4ut]

Or we could just both agree that Dobbs has had accuracy problems, the receivers stank it up quite often as well, and we hope they all make strides this year.

i think that's probably about as fair as one could be.

this debate about Dobbs...i get it. but this is one area the coaches were dead on about.

the passing game on the whole has to get better....and that's the sum of it's parts...Dobbs, WR, O line, Coaches, RB's....the whole thing.

everyone gets so caught up in stats and #'s...and while there's merit to them, they in and of themselves don't tell the story of HOW we got to those #'s.

so, coming full circle, i think the quoted above is probably about as logical as it can get in regards to Dobbs and the passing game in general.

:thumbsup:

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

I don't discount the others. I make a point of mentioning the few guys who rate Dobbs highly to show that there are some people who agree with me. That Dobbs does have high NFL potential.

I've never tried to suggest he was a consensus first rounder like Watson or even Kaaya. Just that he's a lot more highly regarded than many on here want to believe.

Maybe you don't remember but I remember a thread shortly after the season about who could get drafted in 2017 from our team and a majority of posters were trying to argue that Dobbs was undraftable. Obviously that is wrong now.

If his accuracy doesn't improve this season he won't get drafted early. Everyone on this board wants Dobbs to be a first round draft pick hell I want him to go #1 overall it's not like everyone wants him to fail.

 

[LittleDTO]

D4H,I applaud you for extolling Dobbs virtues. He is a great QB and student-athlete. He does suffer from inaccuracy at times though. There is hope. Does anyone remember Crompton? Under Clawson,he couldn't complete a 5 yard pass. He was the worst QB I had ever saw start for us. The next season under Kiffin,he was amazingly improved. Most all QBs improve in their senior campaign. Go Vols!!!

Different story. Crompton had issues with seeing the entire field. Under Kiffin, he had the QB only look to two options on one side of the field. Less thinking and faster reactions. Helped Crompton just play.

 

[LittleDTO]

I don't discount the others. I make a point of mentioning the few guys who rate Dobbs highly to show that there are some people who agree with me. That Dobbs does have high NFL potential.

I've never tried to suggest he was a consensus first rounder like Watson or even Kaaya. Just that he's a lot more highly regarded than many on here want to believe.

Maybe you don't remember but I remember a thread shortly after the season about who could get drafted in 2017 from our team and a majority of posters were trying to argue that Dobbs was undraftable. Obviously that is wrong now.

This is complete and total BULL. You have said several times that Dobbs is a top 10 pick.

 

[ptcarter]

What I like about this thread is that there are no Bama and Florida trolls chiming in. Apparently they don't see the value in this discussion.

Continue.. opcorn:

 

[82_VOL_83]

When? Not to me. Not once has anyone said "hey, we dropped 5 passes in the Arky game". Not once before now. But hey, perhaps you can keep perusing the post game articles from last year and regale us with the actual, "enormous" number that it really was.

We dropped 3 in the OK game.

17 total for the year.
BGSU 2, OK 3, ECU 3, AR 2, GA 3, SC 2, NT 1, VNDY 1.

 

[sjt18]

Actually no. You couldn't be more wrong.

Maybe you should watch the film room on SEC Network when Greg McElroy was visiting Tennessee. He specifically showed that play and gushed about what a great throw that was. He said that Josh fit the ball PERFECTLY into the tightest of windows giving his WR a chance. I think he used the term "fitting a blue whale into a swimming pool" with regard to Dobbs accuracy on that throw.

Once again you are showing your lack of football knowledge if you think that was a bad throw or exhibited lack of accuracy.

That was arguably Dobbs best throw of the season. NFL QBs would be jealous. It was a Sunday throw.

Dude. You are so full of yourself it hurts.

I know plenty about football and have watched that replay dozens of times. I've watched most of the games Dobbs has played in multiple times.

He's a great kid. He's a terrific running threat. He's a great leader. He has a reasonably strong arm. He even has accuracy in drills and often when pressure makes him "forget" about everything and just play. But he is off by a little to a lot on most throws. Only a fool cannot see that if they've watched him play.

I hope he improves greatly and gets drafted. Couldn't happen to a better guy. But you are absolutely delusional for ignoring his inaccuracy.

Next thing you'll be telling us that the pass to Pearson who had fallen down to complete a critical 3rd down was intentional..... when the truth is that if Pearson hadn't slipped.... the pass would have been incomplete.

 

[sjt18]

9 pages into this thread and the resounding argument is not how good Dobbs can be, or how bad he was, it's simply recognizing that he has ONE fault, YES ONE!!!! He has struggled with his accuracy.

Yet 9 pages into just this thread you continue to make excuses for a guy that has admitted, along with his own coaches, that he needs to improve his accuracy. Can you not, for once, put down your pride and realize that no one here hates Dobbs or wishes bad things on him. Or God knows (shhh, wants him off the field because he's black!?) come on man, this is the 21st century. We could care less what skin color our QB has.

Pretty sure everyone here cares only about the color PMS 151 Orange...

Best post from anyone in months.

Far from his skin being an issue.... I'm kind of stoked that he breaks so many molds and results in UT having by far the smartest QB in the SEC. He SHATTERS stereotypes in ways that should please everyone.

 

[LordVOLdemort]

Where do I buy that luggage...???

 

[sjt18]

Every QB, even the GOAT completes those passes to increase their %. No one completes 60%+ throwing 10+ yards downfield all the time.

Some of the "accuracy" issues were mistakes made on the pattern by the WR (continuing to run when they should have "sat down")

UT throws a higher % of short passes than most. I've seen the stat but it has been awhile.

Some times it is a wrong pattern. But I was watching a game replay just the other night when Dobbs turned Kamara around on a simple swing pass. Wide open. D completely fooled. Blocks set up down field. No big pressure on Dobbs. Just threw the ball behind Kamara and made him do a 360 to catch it. A lesser athlete can't do it. Kamara gained 25 yards or so.

There were times when North was visibly upset with Dobbs for throwing the ball in ways that left him vulnerable.

Again, this is not to take anything away from all of the great things you can accurately say about Dobbs. But he DOES have accuracy issues in live play.

 

[BearCat204]

This is complete and total BULL. You have said several times that Dobbs is a top 10 pick.

SEVERAL times

 

[k-town_king]

We dropped 3 in the OK game.

17 total for the year.
BGSU 2, OK 3, ECU 3, AR 2, GA 3, SC 2, NT 1, VNDY 1.

That is a huge underestimation. We dropped 5 in the Ark game alone. Where did you get your stats from? We dropped passes in every single game.

 

[AM64]

The backup...yes you're correct...followed by Sheriron and Jarrett.

Sure would have been nice if they had put Dormady in in place of Dobbs a few times last year to see how he worked with the first team. It's hard to evaluate one effect when you change everything. For example, with Hurd and Kamara out, the defense probably keys more on the pass, and the offensive line may be fresh but they aren't starters for a reason, so you naturally expect a drop off in performance. If you don't evaluate correctly, then you get surprised when a Peterman doesn't turn out to be even the second best if you have to replace an injured QB.