Looking more and more like DeBord will be the new OC

#901
#901
VOLorNuttin said:
Or he may have made a promise to help a guy who once helped him. I don't for a minute believe CBJ is the OC in any capacity. And the offenses are not as simplified as you try to make it out to be. I've heard QB's talk about playbooks being the size of a phone book....including Chip Kelly's. You know, the one offense you say is simple. That's a load of crap. There may be some base concepts, but there are a million different wrinkles to them, and lots of nuances that have to be mastered.
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Jones's tenure at UT, and therefore his coaching career, is riding on the next two seasons. You really think he's going to hire a retired, out-of-football OC based on a sense of loyalty to a guy who gave him a job a decade ago? Come on.

Uptempo/spread offenses use a bunch of different formations to confuse the defense, but they run the same base handful of plays over and over out of them. Oregon's offense is really built around only two core plays, the inside and outside zone read. (This is a great site to read through, since we're trying to do a lot of the same things.) Gus Malzahn sometimes runs the same play five or six times in a row. Etc.
 
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#902
#902
Vercingetorix said:
Jones's tenure at UT, and therefore his coaching career, is riding on the next two seasons. You really think he's going to hire a retired, out-of-football OC based on a sense of loyalty to a guy who gave him a job a decade ago? Come on.

Uptempo/spread offenses use a bunch of different formations to confuse the defense, but they run the same base handful plays over and over out of them. Oregon's offense is built around only two plays, the inside and outside zone read. This is a great site to read through, since we're trying to do a lot of the same things.
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No, they don't. They may have the same type of formations and some base concepts, but out of those they can run a myriad of different plays from it.

We may give a pretty standard look to a defense, even if we shift some pre-snap, but there are dozens and dozens of different plays that can be run from the same formation. Again, Chip Kelly's playbook was said to be as thick as a phone book. So, what do you suppose was in that playbook? 20 pages of plays as you suggest, and the rest full of comics pages and puzzles? Pffft. :loco:
 
#903
#903
Vercingetorix said:
Fans are always obsessed about playcalling. But the whole point of these uptempo spread offenses is that everything is quick and simple and it becomes much more about execution rather than fooling them with playcalling. Remember in the bowl game how the announcer could tell which way Hurd was running based on where he was lined up? That's by design; that's what Oregon does too. This is not some super-complicated offense where you need a genius playcaller. Notice, for example, how Oregon's offense/playcalling hasn't suffered at all since Chip Kelly left.

As far as people wanting Bajakian fired over the playcalling....well, most football fans don't know much about football. Plays that work are great calls; plays that don't work are terrible calls. QED. When in reality it's hard make plays work in an offense built around execution when your OL is too crappy to execute.

The fact that Butch is apparently seriously considering bringing in an old crony who hasn't been an OC in a decade seems like pretty strong evidence that everything about this offense is his and he wants to keep it that way.
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I like chess match football coaches who do something other than let the cards fall where they may every weekend.
 
#907
#907
VOLorNuttin said:
No, they don't. They may have the same type of formations and some base concepts, but out of those they can run a myriad of different plays from it.

We may give a pretty standard look to a defense, even if we shift some pre-snap, but there are dozens and dozens of different plays that can be run from the same formation. Again, Chip Kelly's playbook was said to be as thick as a phone book. So, what do you suppose was in that playbook? 20 pages of plays as you suggest, and the rest full of comics pages and puzzles? Pffft. :loco:
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Kelly's offense is not that complicated. He makes it look complicated with all the formations he throws at the defense, but the core of what he's doing is pretty simple. If you go watch this video about the inside zone read and this video about the outsize zone read, you'll understand the core of his offensive system. The point is to mostly take the chess match aspect out of it and design plays which, if executed properly, can't be shut down even if the defense executes optimally themselves.

Butch has spent two years recruiting for this system. He can't switch horses in midstream, now that he's entering the most critical two-year window of his whole football career. Whoever he brings in is probably going to keep doing pretty much the same thing. And if the guy he brings in is an ex-coach off the golf course, then I'd say that means that what he's been doing can't be too complicated.
 
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#908
#908
Escape Goat said:
Which he didn't recruit
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So the eight years he was at Michigan he didnt have a hand in getting any of those guys? Im not buying that.

I hope we go with somebody like Cumbie for many reasons over Debord, but recruiting is the least of my worries with him.
 
#909
#909
roosterjbh said:
So the eight years he was at Michigan he didnt have a hand in getting any of those guys? Im not buying that.

I hope we go with somebody like Cumbie for many reasons over Debord, but recruiting is the least of my worries with him.
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Debord was a recruiting coordinator. Usually those guys are good at recruiting.
 
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#911
#911
I learned back during the last coaching search we had after J. Graham left for FSU that you probly won't hear the coaches name announced on a message board before the media hears it from the coaches mouth or a statement made by the coach. Now I could be dead wrong on this, but I'm gonna wait n see. If I'm wrong, aaaahhh I still won't apologize to the main OP for startin this stupid thread and that is the truth. And ya can check my stats on that and take it to da bank!
 
#912
#912
roosterjbh said:
So the eight years he was at Michigan he didnt have a hand in getting any of those guys? Im not buying that.

I hope we go with somebody like Cumbie for many reasons over Debord, but recruiting is the least of my worries with him.
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Recruiting is the least of your worries? Good grief. Yeah recruiting isn't that important anyway :crazy:
 
#913
#913
Vercingetorix said:
Kelly's offense is not that complicated. He makes it look complicated with all the formations he throws at the defense, but the core of what he's doing is pretty simple. If you go watch this video about the inside zone read and this video about the outsize zone read, you'll understand the core of his offensive system. The point is to mostly take the chess match aspect out of it and design plays which, if executed properly, can't be shut down even if the defense executes optimally themselves.

Butch has spent two years recruiting for this system. He can't switch horses in midstream, now that he's entering the most critical two-year window of his whole football career. Whoever he brings in is probably going to keep doing pretty much the same thing. And if the guy he brings in is an ex-coach off the golf course, then I'd say that means that what he's been doing can't be too complicated.
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I'm not advocating that CBJ change his offense. But it's not as simple as you try to make it out to be. Remember, you are just another fan opining on a fan forum. You have no intimate knowledge about the level of sophistication or simplicity of a college football playbook.

Numerous QB's talk about their head spinning trying to learn it. Yet, here you are Joe Schlub, the opinionated fan trying to sell your knowledge on the matter. You have none. So, let it go. We ain't buying it.

If any OC would be a bad fit for Butch's offensive philosophy, it would be Debord, who is a Pro-Style kind of coach. Butch seems to have chosen to develop his offensive philosophy from Rich Rod, and thus he has some candidates who come from that coaching tree and who could fit right in with that style of play.
 
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#914
#914
FiremedicVOL127 said:
I learned back during the last coaching search we had after J. Graham left for FSU that you probly won't hear the coaches name announced on a message board before the media hears it from the coaches mouth or a statement made by the coach. Now I could be dead wrong on this, but I'm gonna wait n see. If I'm wrong, aaaahhh I still won't apologize to the main OP for startin this stupid thread and that is the truth. And ya can check my stats on that and take it to da bank!
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We heard about Azzani beforehand.
 
#916
#916
VOLorNuttin said:
I'm not advocating that CBJ change his offense. But it's not as simple as you try to make it out to be. Remember, you are just another fan opining on a fan forum. You have no intimate knowledge about the level of sophistication or simplicity of a college football playbook.

Numerous QB's talk about their head spinning trying to learn it. Yet, here you are Joe Schlub, the opinionated fan trying to sell your knowledge on the matter. You have none. So, let it go. We ain't buying it.

If any OC would be a bad fit for Butch's offensive philosophy, it would be Debord, who is a Pro-Style kind of coach. Butch seems to have chosen to develop his offensive philosophy from Rich Rod, and thus he has some candidates who come from that coaching tree and who could fit right in with that style of play.
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I agree with you that the offense isn't "simple." It took Dobbs 2 years to get it. I think Vercinterox hit the nail on the head in that Butch wants full control of the offense, thus hiring Debord.
 
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#917
#917
Vercingetorix said:
Kelly's offense is not that complicated. He makes it look complicated with all the formations he throws at the defense, but the core of what he's doing is pretty simple. If you go watch this video about the inside zone read and this video about the outsize zone read, you'll understand the core of his offensive system. The point is to mostly take the chess match aspect out of it and design plays which, if executed properly, can't be shut down even if the defense executes optimally themselves.

Butch has spent two years recruiting for this system. He can't switch horses in midstream, now that he's entering the most critical two-year window of his whole football career. Whoever he brings in is probably going to keep doing pretty much the same thing. And if the guy he brings in is an ex-coach off the golf course, then I'd say that means that what he's been doing can't be too complicated.
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Thanks for the links!


One thing I noticed from those videos is Oregon's offensive line doesn't fall back but instead pushes out unlike our line.
 
#918
#918
Vol8188 said:
A ton of experience. Pro experience. Head coaching experience. OC experience. Very successful as a OC. Previous experience with OL (a spot we were horrible at).

Yes, this guy brings nothing!
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Red meat for the "he needs dreds" type. They want a splash, when what you really need is a smart guy who can game plan and anticipate.
 
#919
#919
tim said:
Red meat for the "he needs dreds" type. They want a splash, when what you really need is a smart guy who can game plan and anticipate.
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The dude has never ran our type of offense. If he had dreads, he still has never ran our type of offense. You think he can just snag a dry erase board and figure it out before spring practice?
 
#920
#920
orange parmejohn said:
The dude has never ran our type of offense. If he had dreads, he still has never ran our type of offense. You think he can just snag a dry erase board and figure it out before spring practice?
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Aren't you one of the people on here and keep complaining that you want to see us run a pro style offense?
 
#921
#921
Vercingetorix said:
Kelly's offense is not that complicated. He makes it look complicated with all the formations he throws at the defense, but the core of what he's doing is pretty simple. If you go watch this video about the inside zone read and this video about the outsize zone read, you'll understand the core of his offensive system. The point is to mostly take the chess match aspect out of it and design plays which, if executed properly, can't be shut down even if the defense executes optimally themselves.

Butch has spent two years recruiting for this system. He can't switch horses in midstream, now that he's entering the most critical two-year window of his whole football career. Whoever he brings in is probably going to keep doing pretty much the same thing. And if the guy he brings in is an ex-coach off the golf course, then I'd say that means that what he's been doing can't be too complicated.
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:hi:
One of the best explanations i have seen and one of the best reads posted on VN. Those arguing with you should read it and learn.
 
#923
#923
Butch hiring DeBord would be a lot like Derek Mason hiring Karl Dorell.

Dorell coached Mason, was his mentor, close friends outside of football, their wives are best friends, Dorell's head coaching career was largely considered a disaster, etc.

Familiarity and comfort are great, but I hope CBJ understands that UT is on the precipice and a bad hire will derail all of the work that's been put in.
 
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#924
#924
dreVol said:
Butch hiring DeBord would be a lot like Derek Mason hiring Karl Dorell.

Dorell coached Mason, was his mentor, close friends outside of football, their wives are best friends, Dorell's head coaching career was largely considered a disaster, etc.

Familiarity and comfort are great, but I hope CBJ understands that UT is on the precipice and a bad hire will derail all of the work that's been put in.
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If he doesn't, it's Hart's job to remind him!
 
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