Chris Kyle: American hero or

#152
#152
Grand Vol said:
People like Colonel Paul Tibbetts could be construed as a mass murderer as well.
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Now there's an interesting interjection into this discussion. How many "innocents" did he kill? Thousands? Tens of thousands? And who were the combatants that he killed? What was THAT ratio? Any of you bleeding hearts want to say that wasn't worth it? Maybe Harry should shelved that whole project and let the war drag right into Tokyo. Yeah... that would have been MUCH better. So now relate this to a tactical strike where you kill 12 "innocents". How many Marines were saved as a result? I know that all the Afghanis are not "bad". I get that. But as long as our guys are there, I vote for OUR guys.
 
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#158
#158
hog88 said:
I've read the book and at no time in the book did he claim to kill innocents, brag about it or state any male 15-55 was fair game.
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Same here. He also seemed to give more credit to other guys in his class that were better marksman than he was. It just so happened he was deployed to the most active region on the planet and he had more opportunities than most.
 
#160
#160
This won't be popular but:

As far as I'm concerned, (the ole saying)
If you can't back our soldiers, I suggest you pick up a rifle and stand in front of them.


I can't judge this man or ones like him/her for his/her decisions. I've never walked in his/her shoes.
 
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#161
#161
Obsessed said:
This won't be popular but:

As far as I'm concerned, (the ole saying)
If you can't back our soldiers, I suggest you pick up a rifle and stand in front of them.


I can't judge this man or ones like him/her for his/her decisions. I've never walked in his/her shoes.
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As far as rights, benefits, etc goes, I get this sentiment. But to think we as Soldiers are above reproach is just absolutely baffling to me.
 
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#163
#163
Obsessed said:
This won't be popular but:

As far as I'm concerned, (the ole saying)
If you can't back our soldiers, I suggest you pick up a rifle and stand in front of them.


I can't judge this man or ones like him/her for his/her decisions. I've never walked in his/her shoes.
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This is a good example of the hero worship that makes some of us scratch our heads. You can support the troops and respect their position without treating them like minor deities and pretending they are above reproach. And the whole attitude that you've displayed regarding those of us who don't feel the same way is insulting and dishonest.

Let's say an American soldier is found to have indiscriminately killed a village full of innocents, men women and children. A senseless act of violence and murder. Then that soldier is on record bragging about his accomplishment. You think in this scenario, that man shouldn't be criticized? And no, I'm not saying this is what Kyle did. It's a thought exercise to determine what an American soldier has to do in your eyes to deserve criticism, if that's even possible from your mindset.
 
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#164
#164
MercyPercy said:
This is a good example of the hero worship that makes some of us scratch our heads. You can support the troops and respect their position without treating them like minor deities and pretending they are above reproach. And the whole attitude that you've displayed regarding those of us who don't feel the same way is insulting and dishonest.

Let's say an American soldier is found to have indiscriminately killed a village full of innocents, men women and children. A senseless act of violence and murder. Then that soldier is on record bragging about his accomplishment. You think in this scenario, that man shouldn't be criticized? And no, I'm not saying this is what Kyle did. It's a thought exercise to determine what an American soldier has to do in your eyes to deserve criticism, if that's even possible from your mindset.
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I guess you didn't read what I wrote?

My post is in general..... Of all men and women in uniform. I don't know this man. I don't know the truth. Nor have I been in his boots.
 
#165
#165
Chris Kyle was investigated over his kills. They all checked out. So that makes them ok in my book.
 
#166
#166
vol_in_ar said:
no one on here knows what went down over there
what he saw and his spotter saw, the situation at the time threat level or anything before he squeezed the trigger, and to lump him into killing innocent civilians, is bull****, just because folks want to push an agenda
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Yep
 
#167
#167
MercyPercy said:
This is a good example of the hero worship that makes some of us scratch our heads. You can support the troops and respect their position without treating them like minor deities and pretending they are above reproach. And the whole attitude that you've displayed regarding those of us who don't feel the same way is insulting and dishonest.

Let's say an American soldier is found to have indiscriminately killed a village full of innocents, men women and children. A senseless act of violence and murder. Then that soldier is on record bragging about his accomplishment. You think in this scenario, that man shouldn't be criticized? And no, I'm not saying this is what Kyle did. It's a thought exercise to determine what an American soldier has to do in your eyes to deserve criticism, if that's even possible from your mindset.
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Read up on Lt Calley in Vietnam
There's no comparison between Ma Lai, and what Kyle accomplished
 
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#171
#171
SpaceCoastVol said:
Yes. Now what?
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.

n_huffhines said:
What people don't seem to understand is that if both sides behave in ruthless ways, it's going to make it harder for the other side to back down.

I think if we fight fair (my suggestion is Marque and Reprisal, like the constitution suggests) then we are less likely to create more/new terrorists. Killing innocents is hurting our popularity among fence-sitters.
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#174
#174
n_huffhines said:
.
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Marque and Reprisal was fine when nations attacked nations, but how are you going to do that when these are stateless criminals, hiding in sympathetic countries? Your argument is a pacifist one that will not solve anything.

In wartime, you are going to kill innocent people. There is a really big difference in a tactical strike where as few as possible are killed. That is what we do now. When we can put a cruise missile thru an open window, it's just too damned bad that some innocents are gonna get killed, but it is better than the alternate. War is a messy business. If memory serves, we didn't start this either.
 
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#175
#175
ETV said:
Acting differently? I haven't heard that US personnel had begun using tactics such as kidnapping, rape and absolute torture of innocents in any situation to have intel and/or access to the enemy.
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Abu Ghraib

In the interest of fairness, let's lay all our cards on the table.


And ftr, I think Chris Kyle did some questionable things, but I still see him as a hero simply because he put the lives of his fellow soldiers ahead of his own on many occassions. Sure, you can argue he was doing his job, but so is any police officer or firefighter on duty. Firefighter runs into a fire to save a little girl from dying, I call him a hero. Same firefighter might then go do something of questionable ethics, but that doesn't take away what he did. People are human. They screw up, quite often. That doesn't wipe their heroic deed(s) from the book. It still happened. Chris Kyle took lives, perhaps some innocent lives, but he also saved lives. Who knows what the balance in the end was? I certainly don't, and I doubt anyone on here does either.

Myself personally, I've known many soldiers, and the great majority would never think of themselves as heroes, but to me, for what they did, for what they sacrificed, they'll always be heroes.
 
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