damn! not the greatest publicity here

#77
#77
patrick said:
500k raise and 2 year ext with 1,000,000 buy out is more security than I have ever thought about.

However why are we talking security?

Is next year's team not CCM's and CCM's alone?

If his first full team made up of his players gives Tennessee a sub .500 season then what security does CCM deserve? Seriously? Why should he have a big buy out? If he has had sub par recruiting and/or missed on players why should the university carry that burden? It is no secret that with Stokes gone the Vols may barely be a .500 team and a NCAAT birth is doubtful.

Please explain what security CCM deserved in yr 4 of his tenure since the entire team is HIS team?
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500k raise and 2 year ext with 1,000,000 buy out is more security than I have ever thought about.
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Yeah, me too.

But, I don't live in that world. The buy out is an investment. If you believe in the coach you want a huge buyout that another school would be reluctant to have to pay. Think Pearl at Auburn.

When Hart cut the buy out from 3. something million, to a million it's saying..."We don't believe in you long term".
 
#78
#78
I don't see whats so hard to understand this is all the final fallout from the Hamilton administration and nothing more. The media is going to sell their words and pictures, thats what they do. But its just like people blaming a current president for the circumstances set in motion by the previous one. After this hiring, Hart will have his people in place with all the major sports programs.
 
#79
#79
vol_in_ar said:
I don't know I travel a far amount, and there's questions everywhere I go

East Coast- PA, Jersey
Southwest- TX, AZ
South- GA, FL

I'd say more than your average knows three's something wrong at Tennessee

and 8 times out of 10 there's a comment about firing Fulmer
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My wife had a job interview a couple months ago. The guy she interviewed with went to school at Wisconsin, I think it was. She said he saw "University of Tennessee" on her resume and they spent 5 minutes talking about Bruce Pearl and Lane Kiffin. Like it or not, until we start winning again, this is what we are in the national consciousness.
 
#82
#82
vol66 said:
Yeah, me too.

But, I don't live in that world. The buy out is an investment. If you believe in the coach you want a huge buyout that another school would be reluctant to have to pay. Think Pearl at Auburn.

When Hart cut the buy out from 3. something million, to a million it's saying..."We don't believe in you long term".
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your point was security - I disagree. I think that 1 mill is sufficient in year 4 considering this was entirely his team. there are coaches that operate without a buyout.
 
#83
#83
Vercingetorix said:
My wife had a job interview a couple months ago. The guy she interviewed with went to school at Wisconsin, I think it was. She said he saw "University of Tennessee" on her resume and they spent 5 minutes talking about Bruce Pearl and Lane Kiffin. Like it or not, until we start winning again, this is what we are in the national consciousness.
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That's saying something right there...the two lying-est, cheating-est coaches ever to be hired at UT.
 
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#84
#84
patrick said:
your point was security - I disagree. I think that 1 mill is sufficient in year 4 considering this was entirely his team. there are coaches that operate without a buyout.
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Cal didn't sneeze in the least to pay 1.3 million.

I'd like to see a list of coaches that operate without a buy out, that's news to me.
 
#86
#86
vol66 said:
That's saying something right there...the two lying-est, cheating-est coaches ever to be hired at UT.
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Pearl lied about a bbq. He didn't murder anyone. Give it a rest already. I've seen people get away with far worse from the NCAA
 
#87
#87
Morpheus said:
You may be right but,

1 Martin would almost certainly have been fired next year, and then been owed a big buyout. His recruiting was subpar, so another year of that would have set us back even further. Hart did what Hamilton couldn't seem to understand…you don't give big raises and long extensions when you're not sure where things are headed. THAT's how we got into all this "dysfunction" in the first place.

And 2, Martin chose to move on rather than take a half million raise, so what could anyone have done to avoid this? Nothing. At least nothing that was worth the risk.

We very well could end up with another mediocre coach, but it was still handled exactly the way it should have been, IMO. And coaches are smart enough to know its business.

We're finally doing it right and vol fans should be happy about that.
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What you seem to be saying is this: barring some miracle, the basketball team was going to struggle next season. Hart didn't think making it difficult for another program to hire him away was worth it, so Martin moved on and that's the way we should conduct business.

Is that fair?
 
#88
#88
Vercingetorix said:
One thing he's not misinformed about is that the national perception is that the University of Tennessee's athletic program is a trainwreck.
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And what is the one person that is associated with those hired and fired (or quit) coaches? Mike Hamilton. Dave Hart walked into a dumpster fire. From the financial mismanagement to the incompetent coaching hires, he now gets to clean up after Hamilton once again. It's not his fault that he followed one of the most incompetent AD's in the entire history of college athletics. What we are still seeing is the cumulative effect of 8 years of complete and total incompetence on Hamilton's part and the UT administration. Hopefully, after Cuonzo is gone, we can get rid of the final stain of Hamilton's reign of error.
 
#89
#89
GAVol said:
That was my exact first thought. Leaving a place with no state income tax for California had better involve one hell of a raise.
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Uh yeah... Isn't California's income tax like 12% or something ridiculous like that?? Not to mention the cost of living in general in the Bay Area is one of the top 5 highest in the country... He's gonna have to make at least 2 mil per to just break even on standard of living... Plus, it's Berkeley, CA---crawling with kooks...
 
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#91
#91
theFallGuy said:
Pearl lied about a bbq. He didn't murder anyone. Give it a rest already. I've seen people get away with far worse from the NCAA
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Brian Williams?

96 phone calls?

The Bump?

Tickets?

that's just what we know.
 
#92
#92
Delaware Vol said:
Uh yeah... Isn't California's income tax like 12% or something ridiculous like that?? Not to mention the cost of living in general in the Bay Area is one of the top 5 highest in the country... He's gonna have to make at least 2 mil per to just break even on standard of living... Plus, it's Berkeley, CA---crawling with kooks...
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He can panhandle. they love 'em out there.
 
#96
#96
We can continue to defend our actions/opinions in this mirror called a messageboard until the cows come home. It doesn't mean anything. It makes no difference which side you were/are on in the self-defeating debates on Martin, Pearl, Dooley, Hart, Kiffin, Fulmer, etc.. We are only talking really loudly to ourselves. In fact, we have been speaking so loudly and obnoxiously that everyone in the restaurant and movie theater can hear every word.

The only thing that matters is our reputation... and how the majority of people outside of Knoxville perceives us and our university. The overwhelming majority of national writers, TV analysts, radio hosts, and former coaches which have recently spoken on the subject of UT fans/media...have done so in a negative light. We will stick out our chest and say it doesn't matter...but it does. This is our reputation. It will be another obstacle to overcome in recruiting great athletes and coaches to join us.

The nation believed us to be a "funny/passionate crazy" when we scared a fleeing Kiffin. In just 5 years, that perception has degressed to just "crazy".

We can be better than this. If something doesn't change, we will just continue to urinate in the fan.
 
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#97
#97
GAVol said:
As Verc said, there's definitely been some bad luck, but how do you look at an organization that's had 4 football coaches, 3 basketball coaches and 2 ADs in the past 5 years and not infer some level of organizational dysfunction?
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There is a ton of dysfunction among the top at the University
 
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#99
#99
Delaware Vol said:
Correct. Seems to me there have been plenty of schools that have had more serious image issues in the past nationally and have recovered just fine... Penn State, Miami, Baylor etc etc...
Not to mention, the Alabama football program was pretty dysfunctional post Stallings and pre Saban---I'd say they're doing pretty OK...
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Do you really want to be mentioned in the same breath as Miami and Penn State?

I never understand when folks respond to negative publicity with "So, look at (enter scummy program/coach/player here), they do it too!".

You guys don't have an image problem even remotely as bad as Penn State; but one common denominator reared its ugly head with them too... their fan base was so rabid and delusional about the state of their program that they aggressively defended a pedophile and a bunch of pedophile protectors. Many are still doing it.

Passion is great, but everything in moderation... too much of a good thing can quickly become a bad thing.
 
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#100
#100
G8R8U2 said:
Do you really want to be mentioned in the same breath as Miami and Penn State?

I never understand when folks respond to negative publicity with "So, look at (enter scummy program/coach/player here), they do it too!".

You guys don't have an image problem even remotely as bad as Penn State; but one common denominator reared its ugly head with them too... their fan base was so rabid and delusional about the state of their program that they aggressively defended a pedophile and a bunch of pedophile protectors. Many are still doing it.

Passion is great, but everything in moderation... too much of a good thing can quickly become a bad thing.
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No, not at all... I guess I didn't articulate as well as I could've... I feel that the perception of our athletic department being 'dysfunctional' is basically a BS notion... I was saying compared to those programs I mentioned in my previous post which had REAL image problems...UT's gonna be just fine.

Oh and the Penn State fanbase are about as delusional as they come...as well as paranoid...
 
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