Why can't we have a 1st year turnaround under Pruitt like 2015 Michigan or Florida?

#51
#51
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
According to 247sports it is. And they take into account attrition.

We have top 11 talent. PERIOD.

You can dispute whether recruiting rankings are reliable but you can't dispute the numbers. According to 247sports, we are the 11th most talented team in the country right now.
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The problem with the "11th most talented team in the country" statement is that it assumes that players stop developing after HS. If you go 2, 3, or 4 years with subpar S&C, those programs that are 12-30th will pass you since their players are now bigger, stronger, and faster (hence, more talented) than yours...If you go 2, 3, or 4 years learning improper technique and you stay injured because of that technique, those teams 12-30 will pass you since they can get bigger, faster, stronger while you rest on the trainer's table.....
 
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#54
#54
k-town_king said:
3 teams that outclass us. Everything else is up for grabs though. We'll win between 6-8.
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3 teams? Are you including Vandy in that list since they’ve completely throttled and dominated us each of the last 2 seasons? How about Missouri who returns arguably the best QB in the conference and who beat us by 5 touchdowns last year? We’re starting st the very bottom of the barrel, with a team that is broken from the neck up, hasn’t shown to have anything in the chest and is clearly far overrated in terms of what talent on the roster. 6 wins and being competitive in all games played would be a very successful first season under JP. Hopefully most fans are gonna show some patience in remembering this is a complete, MAJOR rebuild.
 
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#55
#55
KBVol said:
3 teams? Are you including Vandy in that list since they’ve completely throttled and dominated us each of the last 2 seasons? How about Missouri who returns arguably the best QB in the conference and who beat us by 5 touchdowns last year? We’re starting st the very bottom of the barrel, with a team that is broken from the neck up, hadn’t shown to have anything in the chest and is clearly far overrated in terms of what talent on the roster. 6 wins and being competitive in all games played would be a very successful first season under JP. Hopefully most fans are gonna show some patience in remembering this is a complete, MAJOR rebuild.
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I would be ok with 6. We can win as many as 8. Maybe even 9. Not likely, but possible.

We have more talent than Vandy and Mizzou. We should win one or both.

We collapsed in the fourth last year vs Vandy. I don't think that is happening again. That was with a freshman qb.

I think improved coaching and qb play will turn the corner.

We have equal or more talent than everyone we play except the 3 big games.

Bama, AU, UGA

With better coaching we win 7 last year for sure. BJ holds on we beat SC. We had chances and all the breaks went against us last year.
 
#56
#56
The problem with recruiting class rankings is eventually, guys take the field and play the game. To use the NFL as an example.

The Raiders could have claimed to have one of the most talented QB's in all of football because, after all, Jamarcus Russell was the #1 overall pick. You could do this with several other players.

You could also say the Patriots are starting a QB with hardly any talent. A true scrub. I mean, he was drafted in the 6th round. Hell, even weak armed Danny Wuerffel was drafted in the 4th round. Whoever this Brady guy is must really suck to be taken so late as the 6th round.

Eventually, you go on the field and play. And you prove how good you are on the field.

And the problem of turning a program around quickly is that.....for sake of argument.....even if there is a magical amount of talent left on a losing team (usually there isn't) and it wasn't developed properly due to coaching.....it's almost impossible to make up for lost time.

It's hard to take a redshirt junior who has spent 3 years doing it the wrong way and developing bad habits, etc., and now have that guy go play against another dude who's been doing it correctly for 3 years and is now in his 4th year doing it properly.
 
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#57
#57
99gator said:
The problem with recruiting class rankings is eventually, guys take the field and play the game. To use the NFL as an example.

The Raiders could have claimed to have one of the most talented QB's in all of football because, after all, Jamarcus Russell was the #1 overall pick. You could do this with several other players.

You could also say the Patriots are starting a QB with hardly any talent. A true scrub. I mean, he was drafted in the 6th round. Hell, even weak armed Danny Wuerffel was drafted in the 4th round. Whoever this Brady guy is must really suck to be taken so late as the 6th round.

Eventually, you go on the field and play. And you prove how good you are on the field.

And the problem of turning around quickly is that.....for sake of argument.....even if there is a magical amount of talent left on a losing team (usually there isn't) and it wasn't developed properly due to coaching.....it's almost impossible to make up for lost time.

It's hard to take a redshirt junior who has spent 3 years doing it the wrong way and developing bad habits, etc., and now have that guy go play against another dude who's been doing it correctly for 3 years and is now in his 4th year doing it properly.
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but he's a 4*. he's good. the numbers say so.:tease2:
 
#58
#58
k-town_king said:
I would be ok with 6. We can win as many as 8. Maybe even 9. Not likely, but possible.

We have more talent than Vandy and Mizzou. We should win one or both.

We collapsed in the fourth last year vs Vandy. I don't think that is happening again. That was with a freshman qb.

I think improved coaching and qb play will turn the corner.

We have equal or more talent than everyone we play except the 3 big games.

Bama, AU, UGA

With better coaching we win 7 last year for sure. BJ holds on we beat SC. We had chances and all the breaks went against us last year.
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I hear you and see your general thoughts and can agree with a lot of them.

But I just think we’re not nearly as talented as our previous recruiting rankings suggest we are. I know that evaluation is surely skewed given who was coaching those players the last few seasons, but watching us get physically dominated by teams like Missouri, Vandy, App State, even UMass at times last year.....man, I don’t know. Also, recall that Vandy also dominated us in 2016, when we had senior QB Dobbs.

I do believe better coaching, which they’re surely getting now, can make a big difference. But this team is broken and has to be built back up from the ground floor in every facet imaginable.
 
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#59
#59
99gator said:
The problem with recruiting class rankings is eventually, guys take the field and play the game. To use the NFL as an example.

The Raiders could have claimed to have one of the most talented QB's in all of football because, after all, Jamarcus Russell was the #1 overall pick. You could do this with several other players.

You could also say the Patriots are starting a QB with hardly any talent. A true scrub. I mean, he was drafted in the 6th round. Hell, even weak armed Danny Wuerffel was drafted in the 4th round. Whoever this Brady guy is must really suck to be taken so late as the 6th round.

Eventually, you go on the field and play. And you prove how good you are on the field.

And the problem of turning a program around quickly is that.....for sake of argument.....even if there is a magical amount of talent left on a losing team (usually there isn't) and it wasn't developed properly due to coaching.....it's almost impossible to make up for lost time.

It's hard to take a redshirt junior who has spent 3 years doing it the wrong way and developing bad habits, etc., and now have that guy go play against another dude who's been doing it correctly for 3 years and is now in his 4th year doing it properly.
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Very well said. So many intangibles come in to play, and recruiting rankings, while nice to look at on paper, mean very little without all the intangibles that drive players and teams to success.
 
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#60
#60
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Our players from the 2015-17 teams success in the NFL will prove me right.
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So, you're of the belief that if UT's players go on to great success in the NFL, they will retroactively name Tennessee national champions? That's the only way that their NFL successes would prove your championship predictions right.
 
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#61
#61
KBVol said:
...But I just think we’re not nearly as talented as our previous recruiting rankings suggest we are...
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"Talent" is a remarkably ambiguous word. Even if one assumes that the evaluation was right on every player that Tennessee recruited and they all have the right "stars," there are very,very few players that just roll out of bed and compete in the SEC. They ALL have to be developed.

They have to get stronger, faster and most importantly, smarter. They have to learn to play the game at the next level. CBJ's teams just didn't seem to do that.

Question for D4H:

If you could hand pick a roster of incoming freshmen -- an entire team -- and have a spring practice and a fall camp, how many SEC games do you think you would win with that team? Based on your criteria, you'd have the best talent in the country, by far. Would you win the SEC and national championship?
 
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#62
#62
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Good post. Didn't know those numbers. Nonetheless, I can see Pruitt turning around our defense like Malzahn did with Auburn's offense in 2013.

We have ELITE talent all over our defense. Several highly rated four and five-star prospects at every level. If Jeremy Pruitt is the defensive mastermind people make him out to be, then he should be able to turn around our defense.

I expect our defense to rank in the top 20 next season nationally and top 4 in the SEC. We have the talent to do it. The issue the last few years has been coaching.
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I can't or wouldn't argue with you about the talent level of this team. I will wonder if it is smart enough to grasp all the new things, and learn the fundamentals they have not been taught over the past few years. I am afraid it is asking too much to turn it all around in the few practices until the "game is on".
 
#63
#63
bamawriter said:
So, you're of the belief that if UT's players go on to great success in the NFL, they will retroactively name Tennessee national champions? That's the only way that their NFL successes would prove your championship predictions right.
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Got to be some irony with Bamawriter bringing up retroactively declaring national champions.....
 
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#64
#64
There is some raw talent there, no doubt. Unfortunately, it also is burdened with a defeatist attitude left over from CBJ. It beggars belief however, that arguably the top DC in the country (now as a HC) wont have the defense at a far, FAR better level than it was previously. But it is too much to expect after only 1 year, that he will have them perform at the level he delivered in his previous teams - whose 4* & 5* jimmies and joes had been under his or others' excellent coaching for several years already. Just doesn't happen that way.

I expect solid growth this year, flashes of brilliance next year and a downright scary team in 2020.
 
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#66
#66
:good!:
Hawkeye4588 said:
I feel like we should have a file saved to copy and paste since we all keep repeating ourselves. Don't get me wrong, I love the optimistic guys. They make the world a better place to live. But the reality is we do not have the chess pieces in place to compete next season. Not even Saban or Meyer could win the SEC East with our current team. That does not mean those pieces can not be put in place and we will not be extremely successful under Pruitt we just need to be patient just a little longer.
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How cab we be "patient just a little longer" when we have NEVER be patient at all??
 
#68
#68
k-town_king said:
I would be ok with 6. We can win as many as 8. Maybe even 9. Not likely, but possible.

We have more talent than Vandy and Mizzou. We should win one or both.

We collapsed in the fourth last year vs Vandy. I don't think that is happening again. That was with a freshman qb.

I think improved coaching and qb play will turn the corner.

We have equal or more talent than everyone we play except the 3 big games.

Bama, AU, UGA

With better coaching we win 7 last year for sure. BJ holds on we beat SC. We had chances and all the breaks went against us last year.
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You make your own breaks.
 
#69
#69
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Remember 2015? In the preseason expectations were low for 1st year head coaches Jim Harbaugh and Jim McElwain. Both took over teams that had bad records the year before. Neither team had much blue-chip talent on offense. There are huge questions about Florida's offensive line. There were questions about Michigan QB situation. And yet in year 1 both teams ended up winning 10 games and were ranked in the top 10 nationally for at least some time during the season after starting out the season unranked.

What everyone underestimated in 2015 about Michigan and Florida was the amount of blue-chip talent they had on defense. Both schools had recruited really well over the preceding 4 years and even though they didn't win as many games as their recruiting rankings warranted, they still had talent. And what they needed to get that talent to play up to it's potential was a competent head coach. Once they got the new coach both teams took off immediately.

We all know Butch Jones was a totally incompetent head coach. The early practice reports in the spring are showing just how little coaching our players received under the previous coaching staff. With that said, the previous staff did do a decent job recruiting. According to 247sports, our 4-year composite recruiting ranks 11th overall in the nation. That's talent comparable to what Jim Harbaugh inherited at Michigan from Brady Hoke. If Jeremy Pruitt is even halfway decent as a head coach, we have every reason to expect a big turnaround next season. Yes there are questions on this team. Yes we have depth issues as certain positions. However, there is no denying we have a lot of top end talent as well. Especially on defense. And given the fact Jeremy Pruitt is thought of as a defensive mastermind, we should expect to see a big turnaround on defense this year.

We have enough talent on paper to beat everyone on our schedule other than Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn. And it's not impossible to believe we could steal a game from one of those three. This team has had the talent the last 3 years to be ELITE. We were just held back by incompetent coaching and bad luck with injuries. If we can stay healthy, there is no reason why we can't win 10 games in 2018.
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I'm an optimist at heart. I believe coaching makes a difference. The cupboard isn't bare. I'm looking at 8 or 9 wins, optimistically.
 
#70
#70
The long term is what I am most interested in and McElwain got fired and Harbaugh is not earning his $8 mil.
 
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#71
#71
Volnut said:
The long term is what I am most interested in and McElwain got fired and Harbaugh is not earning his $8 mil.
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yeah, i'm not interested in being a one hit wonder. agreed.

that said, i wouldn't be opposed to winning a game or 4 that we're not supposed to...............:p
 
#74
#74
If McElwain had won the east at UT, he would have been given a 10 year contract, and declared one of the best in the country. The standards are different, they don't worship every coach they hire.
 
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#75
#75
Defaultuser said:
If McElwain had won the east at UT, he would have been given a 10 year contract, and declared one of the best in the country. The standards are different, they don't worship every coach they hire.
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I'm not sure 'worship' is the best word for the scenario we've been in for 10 years. Dooley got too much leeway because of the Kiffin debacle, and Butch got too much leeway because of the Dooley debacle.

It was clear to many that Butch had peaked in 2015, and 2016 was a definite confirmation that he wasn't capable of putting together a coaching staff that could develop the talent he was recruiting into an effective team, or coach that team to wins on game days.

Pruitt's going to get a pass on 2018, from the attrition lack of development from the Butch Jones era, but if we aren't seeing significant strides in year two, and a return to true competitiveness by year three, then we can't continue to make the same mistakes that we have with coaching extensions/raises/retention that we have in the last decade.

I hope that his growing pains as a first-time HC aren't too bad and we see some inkling of success in 2018 though.
 
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