What happened to all the talent?

#51
#51
SpaceCoastVol said:
I have been reading for the last couple of years about how we are LOADED with talent. Now all of a sudden, in many threads I have been reading how we have to give CJP 'time' because essentially the cupboard is bare. OK. Where did all the talent go? Did they graduate? Quit? Die? Help me out.
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This talent has not been coached up. Outside of the RBs anyway. The cupboards arent bare. Our talent needs a culture change from the bottom up. Terrible coaching has turned our talent into high school level guys. Thats gonna take some time to fix.
 
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#52
#52
b08d23149b90bb2790a88ab5c70cc028.jpg


now THIS is a coach who knew how to win with less talent !
 
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#53
#53
SpaceCoastVol said:
I have been reading for the last couple of years about how we are LOADED with talent. Now all of a sudden, in many threads I have been reading how we have to give CJP 'time' because essentially the cupboard is bare. OK. Where did all the talent go? Did they graduate? Quit? Die? Help me out.
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It's called attrition. Butch had a terrible % and you throw in injuries and there are a lot of unknowns. A big reason he failed was his inability to develop a roster. If the roster were strong Butch would likely still be coach.
 
#54
#54
I think anything below 7-5 is unacceptable but not grounds for a twitter War for removal. The hype Pruitt is bringing to the table 7-5 should be a piece of cake. Many are not going to buy years for this coach to start winning. That’s been tried coach after coach.
 
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#56
#56
BigOrangeTrain said:
This talent has not been coached up. Outside of the RBs anyway. The cupboards arent bare. Our talent needs a culture change from the bottom up. Terrible coaching has turned our talent into high school level guys. Thats gonna take some time to fix.
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Good post not great but I concur!!!! Just sorry I can't give you more than one like!
 
#61
#61
screenthis said:
Jalen Reeves-Maybin (would have made a big diff)
Darrin Kirkland Jr. (another LB. Was looking strong)
Quarte Sapp (yet another linebacker)
Cameron Sutton (Huge loss)
Jalen Hurd (hurt and played below potential, then left)
Kahlil McKenzie (5* playing below potential. Hope to see more)
Dylan Wiesman
Alvin Kamara missed several games

Interesting thing is that with these guys playing more (even just having Maybin and Sutton on D), I believe we lose only 2 games.
Silver lining? Butch likely would still be here if they did go 10-2.
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Jones' players never played to potential. Jones except for year 1 always had higher than average injuries.

Both of these things relate to his lack of ability and understanding of how to coach a team.

Good teams have physical practices. People who have played will relate to something that seems counterintuitive... but you actually avoid injuries more in games if your practices are sufficiently physical. You learn to take a hit by getting hit. You learn to hit without hurting yourself by hitting.

Jones in '15 hurt his prospects by intentionally being overly physical and running a practice pace that drove fatigue to a point of causing injuries. There were extraordinary injuries before the season even started. In '16, he overreacted the other way.... then had extraordinary injuries during the season.

Long answer short... he just didn't know what he was doing.

By this year, a lot of the injuries were recurring from previous problems.
 
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#62
#62
SpaceCoastVol said:
We are getting all star coaches from what I read on here. Shouldn't be a problem. 6-6 should be unacceptable.

The cupboard is not bare. Or is that a convenient management of expectations?
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The problem is we have talent but not SEC speed. So fans like you see the stars but not the skills. So 6-6 is not unacceptable.
 
#64
#64
First&Tenn said:
First year for most coaches doesn't reflect overall success. That is true. Installing new systems and a new attitude causes growing pains. Saban went 6-6 his first year at Bama, Smart went 7-5.

I think a fair expectation should be 6-7 wins with at least one coming over a team where UT is the underdog.

By year two, we should hope for 9+ wins. Every coach that has won a SEC title since they introduced the championship game has won at least 9 games by year 2.

In the meantime, hope to get top 10 recruiting classes. It may be alot to ask for this year on a short time frame, but they will be necessary beginning next year to have the talent needed to compete for SEC and ultimately national titles.
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That depends on the starting point. If UT only wins 6-7 games... they will not have beaten a team with more talent unless they've dropped a game or two to a much lesser opponent.

UT will STILL have more talent than USCe, UK, VU, and MU. They have 3 gimme OOC games plus a winnable game vs WVU. UF has the same problem UT has roster wise or maybe worse. UGA, Bama, and Aub will all be more talented and developed teams.

Great coaches, coach great. They don't wait for talent to arrive... the coach the best out of what they have.
 
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#65
#65
Butch was the worst coach I’ve ever seen at properly utilizing talent. Alvin Kamara is one of the best, if not the best, feature running backs in the world right now, and Butch kept him on the bench most of his career. If Hurd hadn’t quit, he would have stayed on the bench too.
 
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#68
#68
First&Tenn said:
First year for most coaches doesn't reflect overall success. That is true. Installing new systems and a new attitude causes growing pains. Saban went 6-6 his first year at Bama, Smart went 7-5.

I think a fair expectation should be 6-7 wins with at least one coming over a team where UT is the underdog.

By year two, we should hope for 9+ wins. Every coach that has won a SEC title since they introduced the championship game has won at least 9 games by year 2.

In the meantime, hope to get top 10 recruiting classes. It may be alot to ask for this year on a short time frame, but they will be necessary beginning next year to have the talent needed to compete for SEC and ultimately national titles.
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Saban took over a mess at Bama had no where near the talent Kirby had at GA or the talent we have now.
 
#69
#69
sjt18 said:
Some here for whatever reason have a knee jerk reaction to set the bar low. They think "patiently" enduring subpar performance will somehow magically produce championships in the future.

This team still has talent and has quite a bit if several players come back from injuries and get good development. The right coach will be able to get Fr to play well without the years of development Jones thought they had to have.

I like the hire. I hope for the best. But if he can't improve the team, avoid bad losses, and get some good wins in his first 3 years... then you cut bait. "Time" isn't the friend of building a championship program if time means tolerating someone without the skill to get the job done.

UT needs a great coach. A great coach wins 7 games with 6 win talent... not 5 like Jones did in '13. He wins 9 with 7 win talent... unlike Jones in '14. He doesn't whine about youth then choke away a potentially great season like Jones did in '15.
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Great post.

As for all these knobs saying we don’t have talent...you are dead wrong. We have talented young athletes that have been terribly coached if coached at all. We should have a decent year next year if these coaches are as great as some are saying. There is no reason that we can’t have an 8 win season. PERIOD.
 
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#70
#70
I dont think the cupboard is bare but I think the talent is under-developed. I dont think we will win the east in 2018. But, who knows. UF is recovering and UGA is losing several good players after this season. There's always Candy to worry about.
 
#71
#71
Vols1891 said:
Butch was the worst coach I’ve ever seen at properly utilizing talent. Alvin Kamara is one of the best, if not the best, feature running backs in the world right now, and Butch kept him on the bench most of his career. If Hurd hadn’t quit, he would have stayed on the bench too.
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Not only did he not play him enough... he didn't utilize him or Hurd for maximum impact. His OL philosophy was just incredibly bad. He never put either of those guys in a position to be as good as they could have been individually or as a tandem.
 
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#72
#72
amillz said:
Weren't developed.
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Evan Berry couldn't get on the field much except as a kickoff returner?!? Like everyone but the Vol coaching staff saw a playmaker when this young man had the ball in his hands?!?!? KMac and Tuttle neither one were very special last year when both have special talents. The fans had to revolt and the roster had to be decimated with injuries before Bituli could play regularly. We routinely started a former walkon over him. We brought in a 5th year transfer that started at UGA and Louisville but couldn't get on the field much when our defense was giving up >500 and 600 yards sometimes?!!? We had underdeveloped and underutlized talent all over the place IMO.
 
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#73
#73
I think you could reasonably deduct a star for every year a player "developed" under Butch's tutelage.
 
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#75
#75
sjt18 said:
Not only did he not play him enough... he didn't utilize him or Hurd for maximum impact. His OL philosophy was just incredibly bad. He never put either of those guys in a position to be as good as they could have been individually or as a tandem.
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When you start Coleman Thomas anywhere on the line.. You deserve to be fired:rock:
 
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