What Buck Fitzgerald said

#527
#527
Wins and losses are not meaningless.

Recent history is important as a basis for improvement. However it isn't proof of anything in the future... it is NOT a basis for drawing ironclad conclusions about what will happen. Obviously it provides a basis for expectations. It does not account for changes.

What we know about the last two years is that UT played a ton of young guys who often failed, were underdeveloped, and didn't know how to emotionally handle the competition. We know the coaching staff made multiple mistakes as any staff will do (if experienced, great players didn't cover up coaching incompetence Les Miles would be selling shoes at a mall). What we don't know is how the changes will impact the team and overall performance.

Is the OL really that untalented in run blocking or will a year of development, OL coach change, personnel moves, etc change things?

Will JH's return, deveopment of the TE's, development of DR, and new players make the passing game as great as we hope?

Does CSS's system work, will it work this fall, does he have good enough players to make it work?

Can anyone hit a FG?

Can anyone punt?

How will a year of maturity and coaching changes effect things that will make UT good or bad?

For a fan there seems to be 3 choices: optimism (assumes the ice cream truck is just around the corner for no better reason than they want it to be), pessimism (assumes the ice cream truck driver is incompetent and will never arrive because they magnify real problems and assume the worst), or hopeful realism (hopes the ice cream truck is coming but doesn't assume it is until the music is heard).
 
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#528
#528
King Webbsticles said:
Like I asked, where do you draw the line? So we can't make any reference to last year at all? What about the offseason?
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It's all jmo and not my line to draw for others. Just sayin the talk about failures of the previous years has no bearing on success or failure in 2012 and is a fruitless topic. I mean, how often does the ky game need to be discussed?
The offseason is key to 2012. 2011 isn't.
 
#530
#530
TNGlen said:
According to Tyler Bray he has NOT watched the film.
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Not uncommon. Players can't think about games like that because if they do, it leaves room for the same performance to creep back in their heads.
The coaches and players surely won't pull it out this year either. It's done.
 
#531
#531
Spartacavolus said:
It's all jmo and not my line to draw for others. Just sayin the talk about failures of the previous years has no bearing on success or failure in 2012 and is a fruitless topic. I mean, how often does the ky game need to be discussed?
The offseason is key to 2012. 2011 isn't.
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The ability for the coaching staff to adapt to changing circumstances is relevant to next season.

I have not mentioned the KY game.
 
#532
#532
Spartacavolus said:
They are looking at practice film and film of teams that play a 3-4 to try and prep the team and coaches.

You think they are looking at Ky tape? Ark? No sir.
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Yeah makes sense now that I think about it. Why watch those films and risk losing confidence you have worked all spring to build up. :hi:
 
#534
#534
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
Yeah makes sense now that I think about it. Why watch those films and risk losing confidence you have worked all spring to build up. :hi:
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the only way to coach and play is to focus on the present and future. Of course you hopefully learn from mistakes made, but thats entirely different than focusing on past mistakes.
 
#538
#538
King Webbsticles said:
No. With the exact same group of players. I'm not making a sweeping generalization here. I referenced a specific instance.
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I'm confused. Are you talking about DD, Wilcox, and other staff along with the 3 sr leaders in Poole, Malik, Austin and freshmen db's and lb's and the 5 soph OL not making adjustments in 2011?

Or are you talking about DD, Sal, and 6 other new staff members along with upperclassmen in the OL, at wr, at qb, at DL and more experienced young talent not making adjustments this fall?

Totally different team man and we will all find out if it's going to work out or not.
 
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#539
#539
Spartacavolus said:
I'm confused. Are you talking about DD, Wilcox, and other staff along with the 3 sr leaders in Poole, Malik, Austin and freshmen db's and lb's and the 5 soph OL not making adjustments in 2011?

Or are you talking about DD, Sal, and 6 other new staff members along with upperclassmen in the OL, at wr, at qb, at DL and more experienced young talent not making adjustments this fall?

Totally different team man and we will all find out if it's going to work out or not.
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I wasn't talking about any of that. I referenced a specific instance about last season. You are the one who started throwing around generalizations about dwelling in the past.

To help you out, my OP was sourcing the inability of the offensive staff (mainly Chaney) to adapt to the circumstances that faced the team prior to the UGA game. I stated that is was worrisome that after 3 weeks of preparation, we made no attempt to do anything on offense that would be considered adapting to the situation.
 
#540
#540
King Webbsticles said:
I wasn't talking about any of that. I referenced a specific instance about last season. You are the one who started throwing around generalizations about dwelling in the past.

To help you out, my OP was sourcing the inability of the offensive staff (mainly Chaney) to adapt to the circumstances that faced the team prior to the UGA game. I stated that is was worrisome that after 3 weeks of preparation, we made no attempt to do anything on offense that would be considered adapting to the situation.
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-we didn't bring in 4 sr badass OL to block during the game?
-we didn't put Trent Richardson in the backfield instead of Poole?
-we didn't throw it to #11 on crutches
-our backup qb's couldn't get it done with no blocking, no running back and Z Rogers as the only open man?

And btw, I really haven't liked Chaney and some of his game plans anyway, but I would like to know what you expected him to do against Ga with worley/simms finishing the game, poole in the backfield, Stone snapping snaps on the ground, d rogers getting doubled and z rogers and true freshmen on the outside. What adjustments does he make. We were outmanned and outgunned, which is why we couldn't put it in the endzone.
 
#541
#541
Spartacavolus said:
-we didn't bring in 4 sr badass OL to block during the game?
-we didn't put Trent Richardson in the backfield instead of Poole?
-we didn't throw it to #11 on crutches
-our backup qb's couldn't get it done with no blocking, no running back and Z Rogers as the only open man?

And btw, I really haven't liked Chaney and some of his game plans anyway, but I would like to know what you expected him to do against Ga with worley/simms finishing the game, poole in the backfield, Stone snapping snaps on the ground, d rogers getting doubled and z rogers and true freshmen on the outside. What adjustments does he make. We were outmanned and outgunned, which is why we couldn't put it in the endzone.
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I am keenly interested in the response to this question.
 
#542
#542
King Webbsticles said:
I wasn't talking about any of that. I referenced a specific instance about last season. You are the one who started throwing around generalizations about dwelling in the past.

To help you out, my OP was sourcing the inability of the offensive staff (mainly Chaney) to adapt to the circumstances that faced the team prior to the UGA game. I stated that is was worrisome that after 3 weeks of preparation, we made no attempt to do anything on offense that would be considered adapting to the situation.
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Spartacavolus said:
-we didn't bring in 4 sr badass OL to block during the game?
-we didn't put Trent Richardson in the backfield instead of Poole?
-we didn't throw it to #11 on crutches
-our backup qb's couldn't get it done with no blocking, no running back and Z Rogers as the only open man?

And btw, I really haven't liked Chaney and some of his game plans anyway, but I would like to know what you expected him to do against Ga with worley/simms finishing the game, poole in the backfield, Stone snapping snaps on the ground, d rogers getting doubled and z rogers and true freshmen on the outside. What adjustments does he make. We were outmanned and outgunned, which is why we couldn't put it in the endzone.
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Wasn't it 6-6 at the half and we had two pretty good drives? Both of you are 1st class posters, play nice!
 
#543
#543
Spartacavolus said:
And btw, I really haven't liked Chaney and some of his game plans anyway, but I would like to know what you expected him to do against Ga with worley/simms finishing the game, poole in the backfield, Stone snapping snaps on the ground, d rogers getting doubled and z rogers and true freshmen on the outside. What adjustments does he make. We were outmanned and outgunned, which is why we couldn't put it in the endzone.
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We ran the exact same offense as if Justin Hunter was still playing. The only difference was that Zack Rogers isn't Justin Hunter.

We had three weeks to focus on a way to move the ball without JH in the lineup, but we didn't change anything.

We had the same OL and RB as the year before, when Poole went for over 1000 yards. We had the necessary personnel to do something other than run the same offense as if nothing had happened. Chaney failed to adapt the the new changing circumstances and had nearly a month to do it.

The offensive failures was with the starters, minus JH11. The game was lost when we failed to move the ball more than 20 yards on 5 straight possessions. Simms wasn't playing then yet.
 
#544
#544
TNGlen said:
Wasn't it 6-6 at the half and we had two pretty good drives? Both of you are 1st class posters, play nice!
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We had one really good drive that went about 80 yards and ended in a FG. The other two were around 50 yard drives that either had one big play or helped by penalties and resulted in long FG attempts.

Mychal Rivera was having a career game in the first half. After halftime, UGA took away our ways of moving the football. But we continued trying to do the same things. We wanted the pure talent of D Rogers and Bray to win the game, but when UGA started focusing on that, we had no answer.
 
#545
#545
King Webbsticles said:
We ran the exact same offense as if Justin Hunter was still playing. The only difference was that Zack Rogers isn't Justin Hunter.

We had three weeks to focus on a way to move the ball without JH in the lineup, but we didn't change anything.

We had the same OL and RB as the year before, when Poole went for over 1000 yards. We had the necessary personnel to do something other than run the same offense as if nothing had happened. Chaney failed to adapt the the new changing circumstances and had nearly a month to do it.

The offensive failures was with the starters, minus JH11. The game was lost when we failed to move the ball more than 20 yards on 5 straight possessions. Simms wasn't playing then yet.
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I don't disagree with anything you said. My question is, what should he have done?
I think we could have dinked and dunked them a little, but with the OL and lack of outside depth, you are probably looking at a turnover or two trying to throw quick across the middle with a confused line, or a screen or 2 with a slow Poole getting hit 7 yds deep.
The OL issues will be fixed with upperclassmen on the field. Those guys had noone to lead them in the trenches during the game because noone had confidence to lead. If it looks the same this year, Dooley should leave.
It won't.
To reiterate. I don't disagree with your assessment because I had the same one for awhile. But, it's hard to change your offensive plan for the year, the plan you've been trying to perfect since spring practice, during the game or even 3 weeks prior, especially when you have very little that you can go to. You saw Poole run last year. He missed cut after cut and just didn't run well when he did have a little space.
 
#546
#546
King Webbsticles said:
We ran the exact same offense as if Justin Hunter was still playing. The only difference was that Zack Rogers isn't Justin Hunter.

We had three weeks to focus on a way to move the ball without JH in the lineup, but we didn't change anything.

We had the same OL and RB as the year before, when Poole went for over 1000 yards. We had the necessary personnel to do something other than run the same offense as if nothing had happened. Chaney failed to adapt the the new changing circumstances and had nearly a month to do it.

The offensive failures was with the starters, minus JH11. The game was lost when we failed to move the ball more than 20 yards on 5 straight possessions. Simms wasn't playing then yet.
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What, specifically, should he have changed? Please be specific per the "necessary personnel" that he had at his disposal.
 
#547
#547
Spartacavolus said:
I don't disagree with anything you said. My question is, what should he have done?
I think we could have dinked and dunked them a little, but with the OL and lack of outside depth, you are probably looking at a turnover or two trying to throw quick across the middle with a confused line, or a screen or 2 with a slow Poole getting hit 7 yds deep.
The OL issues will be fixed with upperclassmen on the field. Those guys had noone to lead them in the trenches during the game because noone had confidence to lead. If it looks the same, Dooley should leave.
It won't.
To reiterate. I don't disagree with your assessment because I had the same one for awhile. But, it's hard to change your offensive plan for the year, the plan you've been trying to perfect since spring practice, during the game or even 3 weeks prior, especially when you have very little that you can go to. You saw Poole run last year. He missed cut after cut and just didn't run well when he did have a little space.
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Chaney gets paid good money to find things that work. When one player, a WR even, gets injured, your entire offense should not collapse. He HAS to change something. The situation has changed, so there has to be some adjustment.

I can't answer what he should have done, because I'm not qualified to make that assessment, but he HAD to attempt to do something. Yet, he kept trotting out the same thing for the rest of the year. Even, to an extent, when Bray went down. Chaney stuck with the offense he wanted to at the beginning of the year, injuries be damned. It is easy to see that we didn't have the personnel to run what he wanted, so figure something out.

And I won't get into it again, but the change of OL blocking scheme from year 1 to 2 has to go down as one of the stupidest decisions of the Dooley era so far. Not saying that it was CDD decision, but whoever made that choice should have been slapped when they suggested it.
 
#548
#548
King Webbsticles said:
Chaney gets paid good money to find things that work. When one player, a WR even, gets injured, your entire offense should not collapse. He HAS to change something. The situation has changed, so there has to be some adjustment.

I can't answer what he should have done, because I'm not qualified to make that assessment, but he HAD to attempt to do something. Yet, he kept trotting out the same thing for the rest of the year. Even, to an extent, when Bray went down. Chaney stuck with the offense he wanted to at the beginning of the year, injuries be damned. It is easy to see that we didn't have the personnel to run what he wanted, so figure something out.

And I won't get into it again, but the change of OL blocking scheme from year 1 to 2 has to go down as one of the stupidest decisions of the Dooley era so far. Not saying that it was CDD decision, but whoever made that choice should have been slapped when they suggested it.
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So, you are not qualified to offer solutions, but you are qualified to offer criticism?

I'm just asking questions here.

But what you are saying is: "I'm do not understand the comlexities of the offense, what he had at his disposal, the amount fo pre-season work that they had done working on x, y, or z, or what his remaining personnel was capable of. He just needed to change something."

I must say, I was intently interested in your answers to these questions because these were the exact answers that I expected.

:hi:
 
#549
#549
I hear all of that. Just don't know where he could go at this stage. This year if something gets shut down, we should have better responses. We'll see.

I will say that even though it was just one player, #11 was a gameplan changer. With him, the DC's and db's couldn't sleep at night and they had to cover the whole field in every offensive formation. Without him, the DC's could shrink the gameplan and field. No other WR's in the SEC, that I recall, would require such attention.
 
#550
#550
Orange_Crush said:
So, you are not qualified to offer solutions, but you are qualified to offer criticism?

I'm just asking questions here.

But what you are saying is: "I'm do not understand the comlexities of the offense, what he had at his disposal, the amount fo pre-season work that they had done working on x, y, or z, or what his remaining personnel was capable of. He just needed to change something."

I must say, I was intently interested in your answers to these questions because these were the exact answers that I expected.

:hi:
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Hell yeah I'm qualified to offer criticism. Our Offense last year, after Hunter, was one of the worst ones in the nation. It doesn't take an NFL HC to see that.

Chaney gets paid a lot of money to figure out ways to move the ball. He failed at doing that.

And the bolded section isn't what I said at all. I understand what he had to work with and what they could do. I could also see that that personnel couldn't do what Chaney wanted them to do. That is why you adapt to the situation. Chaney didn't... for the rest of the year.
 
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