Vols and Gators Comparison

[KBVol]

I guess we have different definitions for 'broken program' then. When someone says 'broken program' I think of post-Dooley UT, who was pretty much devoid of SEC-level talent on both sides of the ball.

Despite the 4-8 & 6-5 seasons that Muschamp had his last 2 seasons it is hard for me to consider the Florida program that Mc inherited as 'broken'. The offense was bad, yes, but UF had the 3rd-ranked recruiting class in 2012, the 4th-ranked recruiting class in 2013, and the 8th-ranked recruiting class in 2014 (all Rivals rankings), so the cupboard was not bare. And considering WM recruited so poorly on the offensive side, that means all of the considerable talent WM recruited was on the defensive side of the ball. Which probably explains why even with the 4-8 2012 season the gator defense still finished ranked 8th in the nation.

So it is hard for me to see that program as being broken when Mc arrived. Damaged? Yes.

We disagree. No worries. Bottom line is Florida had no business winning the East in either of McElwain's first 2 seasons given the state of their program, whether you wanna call it broken or damaged or whatever....yet they did.

 

[Sarms58]

I guess we have different definitions for 'broken program' then. When someone says 'broken program' I think of post-Dooley UT, who was pretty much devoid of SEC-level talent on both sides of the ball.

Despite the 4-8 & 6-5 seasons that Muschamp had his last 2 seasons it is hard for me to consider the Florida program that Mc inherited as 'broken'. The offense was bad, yes, but UF had the 3rd-ranked recruiting class in 2012, the 4th-ranked recruiting class in 2013, and the 8th-ranked recruiting class in 2014 (all Rivals rankings), so the cupboard was not bare. And considering WM recruited so poorly on the offensive side, that means all of the considerable talent WM recruited was on the defensive side of the ball. Which probably explains why even with the 4-8 2012 season the gator defense still finished ranked 8th in the nation.

So it is hard for me to see that program as being broken when Mc arrived. Damaged? Yes.

Despite their offensive woes, the Gators were the most talented team in the east the last two years...I'm not sold that Mac will keep the talent level where he found it but that will play out over the next few seasons...

My concerns are more for my team - now that our talent level is back to SEC standards, will Butch be able to move forward or will we be stuck at a 9 win ceiling? Someone on here was talking about organizational turnarounds and that's sort of how I see UT. I know everyone used the book "Good the Great" to transform their business but Tennessee had to first go from sucky to get to good...now we'll see if Jones can deliver or if he has to move on...

 

[njvols]

Despite their offensive woes, the Gators were the most talented team in the east the last two years...I'm not sold that Mac will keep the talent level where he found it but that will play out over the next few seasons...

My concerns are more for my team - now that our talent level is back to SEC standards, will Butch be able to move forward or will we be stuck at a 9 win ceiling? Someone on here was talking about organizational turnarounds and that's sort of how I see UT. I know everyone used the book "Good the Great" to transform their business but Tennessee had to first go from sucky to get to good...now we'll see if Jones can deliver or if he has to move on...

"Sucky to Good"...Future VN best seller...co-authors: Hamilton, Hart, Cheek, Kiffin, Dooley, Jones

 

[Crazy Ivan]

We disagree. No worries. Bottom line is Florida had no business winning the East in either of McElwain's first 2 seasons given the state of their program, whether you wanna call it broken or damaged or whatever....yet they did.

I won't completely disagree with that, although I think in 2015 the UF offense was decent until Greer was suspended late in the season. And again, referring to 2016, I think if you have a great defense you are always in the hunt whether you are the favorite to win it or not. Which is why a couple of pundits said the gators were a darkhorse last season. I actually had thought preseason that they would finish 2nd behind UT.

 

[RowdyRetile]

That defense was dominated by Muschamp players.

No doubt there were some stud holdovers from Muschamp's tenure, but Mac has recruited some defensive studs of his own, and by the end of last year, it was Mac's recruits leading the defense.

Cece Jefferson is a Mac recruit, so was sack leader Jabari Zuniga. Chauncey Gardner, the next great DB at DBU was a Mac recruit, had a pick-6 plus another INT in the Bowl game. The starting LB's the last 3 games of the year, including the LSU game, were all Mac guys; Vosean Joseph (the guy who knocked LSU's QB into next month at the goal line), David Reese and Kylan Johnson. Key role players last year D-linemen Jachai Polite and Keivonnis Davis were Mac recruits.

My point is, Mac's players were sprinkled all over the UF defense last year, and frankly, most of Muschamp's studs were hurt: Jarrad Davis, Anzalone, Maye. Tabor and Wilson were about the only two still standing by the end of the year.

 

[RowdyRetile]

Bottom line is Florida had no business winning the East in either of McElwain's first 2 seasons given the state of their program, whether you wanna call it broken or damaged or whatever....yet they did.

I agree. And this upcoming season, Mac and Florida have the most offensive firepower they have had since the Meyer days. Three stud RB's, three stud WR's (at least), two solid experienced returning TE's, two QB's with size and arm talent (although inexperienced), and an o-line that actually looks like an SEC-type o-line.

Mac's first year, his QB was a scat-back midget (Treon Harris), his second year he had Del Rio, who was serviceable until he hurt his knee and shoulder badly enough that he's had 3 offseason surgeries, and Appleby who flashed what can happen in the Mac offense, but absolutely nutted-up against the Bama's and FSU's of the world. Franks and Trask are major upgrades at QB from Mac's first two years.

Florida's stock is rising.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

I agree. And this upcoming season, Mac and Florida have the most offensive firepower they have had since the Meyer days. Three stud RB's, three stud WR's (at least), two solid experienced returning TE's, two QB's with size and arm talent (although inexperienced), and an o-line that actually looks like an SEC-type o-line.

Mac's first year, his QB was a scat-back midget (Treon Harris), his second year he had Del Rio, who was serviceable until he hurt his knee and shoulder badly enough that he's had 3 offseason surgeries, and Appleby who flashed what can happen in the Mac offense, but absolutely nutted-up against the Bama's and FSU's of the world. Franks and Trask are major upgrades at QB from Mac's first two years.

Florida's stock is rising.

Hope you are correct. Still think QB is a question mark.

 

[photovol]

Jim McElwain > Butch Jones?
Is it even close?:hmm:

 

[General Jack]

I'm hoping we keep this next streak under a decade.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I'm hoping we keep this next streak under a decade.

You do realize that we won last year so the next streak may have already started.

If so, don't you want the streak to go on for a long while?

 

[The_Big_Orange]

The only comparison that matters:

McIlwain does more with less.

Butch does less with more.

I wouldn't call what he did as doing less with more. His schedule was much easier to manage in those two years than ours.

 

[General Jack]

You do realize that we won last year so the next streak may have already started.

If so, don't you want the streak to go on for a long while?

I don't consider one game a streak.

With only one exception in our modern era (2003-2004), all streaks have belonged to the gators. Given the tenor of this thread and the assessment of coaching competencies, I unfortunately fully expect to start losing to Florida again beginning in 2017.

 

[08Vol]

I don't consider one game a streak.

With only one exception in our modern era (2003-2004), all streaks have belonged to the gators. Given the tenor of this thread and the assessment of coaching competencies, I unfortunately fully expect to start losing to Florida again beginning in 2017.

Why? So far Butch and McElwain are 1-1, with McElwain's win needing 5 4th down conversions. The truth is that Butch is a better coach than McElwain but UF got lucky in 2015.

 

[ETV]

"Sucky to Good"...Future VN best seller...co-authors: Hamilton, Hart, Cheek, Kiffin, Dooley, Jones

with additional partial credit towards Fulmer.

 

[ALGator]

And with no QB, both years.

If Butch did that, we'd claim he walked on water.

Florida hasn't had the same QB start the entire season (every game) since 2008. Maybe this can be the year.

 

[General Jack]

Why? So far Butch and McElwain are 1-1, with McElwain's win needing 5 4th down conversions. The truth is that Butch is a better coach than McElwain but UF got lucky in 2015.

Your "got lucky" is my "outcoached Butch".

Florida overcame adversity and won down the stretch... we folded.

 

[Remy]

Florida hasn't had the same QB start the entire season (every game) since 2008. Maybe this can be the year.

You would think the QB kid with the steroids, since they didn't really make much of a difference per many gator fans, would be back on the field leading Mac's guys to victory. He fell off the face of the Earth I guess.

 

[ETV]

Why? So far Butch and McElwain are 1-1, with McElwain's win needing 5 4th down conversions. The truth is that Butch is a better coach than McElwain but UF got lucky in 2015.

Completing five 4th down conversions is not what I call luck.

 

[OHvol40]

I agree. And this upcoming season, Mac and Florida have the most offensive firepower they have had since the Meyer days. Three stud RB's, three stud WR's (at least), two solid experienced returning TE's, two QB's with size and arm talent (although inexperienced), and an o-line that actually looks like an SEC-type o-line.

Mac's first year, his QB was a scat-back midget (Treon Harris), his second year he had Del Rio, who was serviceable until he hurt his knee and shoulder badly enough that he's had 3 offseason surgeries, and Appleby who flashed what can happen in the Mac offense, but absolutely nutted-up against the Bama's and FSU's of the world. Franks and Trask are major upgrades at QB from Mac's first two years.

Florida's stock is rising.

Much of what you say, I'm sure, is true. This year's UF team will probably look better on O (pending QB play) and might take a step back on D if we are being fair. How much the O improves and how much, if at all, the D regresses will be interesting.

From my perspective (watching UF several times last year), you're overselling your "studs" on offense. I saw some good players with a couple studs sprinkled in, but it's wishful thinking if you believe those guys will produce like an UM offense did.

Conversely, UT will probably step back in offensive production and look better on defense (as if there is anywhere to go but up from the end of last season). We obviously have to fight off the injury bug.

This dynamic in the east this year will be very interesting to watch play out. Obviously, we both need to find a way to take care of UGA.

 

[OHvol40]

No doubt there were some stud holdovers from Muschamp's tenure, but Mac has recruited some defensive studs of his own, and by the end of last year, it was Mac's recruits leading the defense.

Cece Jefferson is a Mac recruit, so was sack leader Jabari Zuniga. Chauncey Gardner, the next great DB at DBU was a Mac recruit, had a pick-6 plus another INT in the Bowl game. The starting LB's the last 3 games of the year, including the LSU game, were all Mac guys; Vosean Joseph (the guy who knocked LSU's QB into next month at the goal line), David Reese and Kylan Johnson. Key role players last year D-linemen Jachai Polite and Keivonnis Davis were Mac recruits.

My point is, Mac's players were sprinkled all over the UF defense last year, and frankly, most of Muschamp's studs were hurt: Jarrad Davis, Anzalone, Maye. Tabor and Wilson were about the only two still standing by the end of the year.

We moved the ball up and down the field last year on a UF defense that was fairly healthy at the time and was being compared to Alabama's D at that point in the season.

UT will have a new backfield but the scheme hasn't changed and the Oline is in great shape heading into the year. With the studs you lost there, it may be a tall order to change the narrative.

 

[ALGator]

You would think the QB kid with the steroids, since they didn't really make much of a difference per many gator fans, would be back on the field leading Mac's guys to victory. He fell off the face of the Earth I guess.

Transferred to West Virginia..

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

I'd call winning the East 2 years in a row, while not the favorite, and losing my starting QB both years, only to win in spite of that fact, quite impressive, and an overachievement.

I'm no Mac fan either, BTW. Average at best.

Grier was cheating.

Del Rio is much worse than Appleby. I would argue that him playing Dell Rio was a dumb move. By the end of the season Delrio couldn't even see the field even when healthy.

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

Broken program? LOL! Mc took over an offense that was broken, yes, but a defense that was loaded with talent and one of the best in the nation. And he hired a good DC to run it. And that defense won him the East 2 years in a row when UGA and UT blew their respective shots.

I know, I know. I am making more 'excuses' because I'm not idolizing Mc.

It is also been two full seasons and the Florida gator fans are wondering why the offense isn't fixed yet.

 

[VolsRule]

hopefully del rio is the starting QB this year---he's terrible.

 

[RowdyRetile]

Much of what you say, I'm sure, is true. This year's UF team will probably look better on O (pending QB play) and might take a step back on D if we are being fair. How much the O improves and how much, if at all, the D regresses will be interesting.

From my perspective (watching UF several times last year), you're overselling your "studs" on offense. I saw some good players with a couple studs sprinkled in, but it's wishful thinking if you believe those guys will produce like an UM offense did.

Conversely, UT will probably step back in offensive production and look better on defense (as if there is anywhere to go but up from the end of last season). We obviously have to fight off the injury bug.

This dynamic in the east this year will be very interesting to watch play out. Obviously, we both need to find a way to take care of UGA.

You may be right regarding UF's defense, interior d-line may be the most suspect position, and the LB's have to stay healthy.

I call these guys definite studs on offense; RB's Scarlett and Perine. WR's Callaway, Powell, Cleveland. TE Goolsby. Potential studs; RB Mark Thompson, WR's Dre Massey, Josh Hammond and look out for incoming athlete Kadarius Toney. This guy is reminding people of Percy Harvin on the practice field right now.

There's no doubt in my mind this will be UF's best offense under Mac.