Vols and Gators Comparison

#29
#29
daj2576 said:
You're hypothesis starts out with some very flawed logic from the subjective: that is the UF had less than UT.

Using recruiting averages, you see that UF actually had a more talented roster than UT his first year. That predicts a win north of 2/3 of the time.

Using this metric, UT had the more talented roster last year and UT won. Again, this is the expected outcome . That means that while Mac is 1-1 against the team he apparently never should lose to (using his words) both games have been talent predicted. That trend actually continues in UT's favor this season. We will see.

Importantly, Mac isn't performing outside of what these talent predictions would expect either at UF or Colorado State. In fact, he trends slightly below talent expectations historically. At both stops he has been compared against a significantly under-performing coach making his improvement look markedly better even if slightly below what should be expected.

So, what does that actually say about his winning the east in both years? I would postulate it says the same thing that Missouri winning the east did...less about them, and more about the east. But Pinkel did have a history of regularly over-performing, where Mac does not. His performances against Bama show that he isn't over-performing his talent by significant margins (his teams have been more talented than Clemson, FYI). What it shows is that he out-talents the majority of his SEC competition, and they key competition are a bit more unstable. When UGA finds stability, and UT continues to add seasonal depth, this trend doesn't likely continue.
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All of that work and logical reasoning in your post and you undermine it all with the first word.
 
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#30
#30
Ancient Reptile said:
I know, I know: there's no comparison. Still, I find it interesting that I see these similarities. (1) Both teams should have their best O-lines in several years;(2) Both teams have work to do in the secondary;(3) Both teams are looking for quarterbacks.
Guess you guys are returning more experienced D-lines and we have more experienced RBs. Don't know about LBs. All right, have at it and, for the record, I intend nothing bad in posting this.
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You guys ran the most vanilla schemes I have seen from a defense in sometime when you played us last year.

Which is a credit to your defenses talent and attention to detail. However, you guys aren't as talented in that side of the ball this year. I honestly don't see a East championship this year in the cards for you.

I am one of the very few that think this offense will look really good this year. I also think we will be fielding the best team we have had since butch has been here scheme wise. I understand we have a young QB but I like the potential.

But what do I know.
 
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#31
#31
McDad said:
Winning the East is currently equivalent to a participation trophy.
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Seriously?? Is this the attitude, now that graduating a 4 year program under Butch Jones with no championships = CoL with Hearts?
 
#32
#32
Crazy Ivan said:
Mc had more on defense his first 2 seasons at UF, and a great defense can keep you in games until the 4th qtr, and then if the other team makes mistakes you have a chance to win. UT made 4th qtr mistakes 2 seasons ago, and LSU made mistakes in 2016, and UF capitalized on both occasions. That defense was dominated by Muschamp players.

If he wins the East this season with most of his own players on defense and an average offense then I will say he can do more with less.
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Excuses. Florida wasn't picked by anybody to win anything the last 2 seasons (I don't care who's players he had), CJM's first 2 seasons, yet they played in the SECCG both years. Conversely, Butch........
 
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#33
#33
river rat said:
Also, I seem to recall the Vols losing it more than the Gators winning it last year.
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Little bit of both. But when it ultimately came time to go win the East, Tennessee got punked by SCar and Vandy, while Florida went out and beat SCar and LSU. McElwain got it done, Jones failed.
 
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#34
#34
KBVol said:
Excuses. Florida wasn't picked by anybody to win anything the last 2 seasons (I don't care who's players he had), CJM's first 2 seasons, yet they played in the SECCG both years. Conversely, Butch........
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How is what I said an excuse? I didn't say a word about Butch or what I thought of him. I simply gave an opinion on Mc.

Try again.
 
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#35
#35
No one expects the Vols to win the SEC east this year and many fans think the Vols will do well to win 6 games.


Beating Vandy is a must for Butch Jones to remain at UT.....and it very well should be, don't you think?
 
#36
#36
KBVol said:
Little bit of both. But when it ultimately came time to go win the East, Tennessee got punked by SCar and Vandy, while Florida went out and beat SCar and LSU. McElwain got it done, Jones failed.
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Bring's up the question, will Butch Jones ever be feared in the SEC?
Derek Mason suggest the answer is a resounding No:birgits_giggle:
 
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#38
#38
photovol said:
Bring's up the question, will Butch Jones ever be feared in the SEC?
Derek Mason suggest the answer is a resounding No:birgits_giggle:
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Derek Mason has only beat Jones 1 time, Butch's other loss was to J. Franklin his last year. So Mason hasn't proven anything!!!! :thud:
 
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#39
#39
Crazy Ivan said:
How is what I said an excuse? I didn't say a word about Butch or what I thought of him. I simply gave an opinion on Mc.

Try again.
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Your excuses were CJM was "playing with Muschamp's players" and that "UF's defense won the East" for Muschamp. Those are excuses. Fact is, CJM took over a broken program that had gone 10-13 the two previous seasons, and quickly went 19-8 with 2 division titles.

There, I didn't say a word about Butch or what I think of him either.
 
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#41
#41
KBVol said:
He's proven he can beat a far more talented Tennessee team coached by Butch Jones.
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One win...Come on KB. He hasn't proven anything. Butch is a better coach than Mason, Hands down, now that may not be saying much....But I wouldn't switch coaches with Vandy anyday of the week.

The little brother gets a good shot at the Big Bro every once in a while. But they both know who the Big Brother will always be.:)
 
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#42
#42
KBVol said:
Your excuses were CJM was "playing with Muschamp's players" and that "UF's defense won the East" for Muschamp. Those are excuses. Fact is, CJM took over a broken program that had gone 10-13 the two previous seasons, and quickly went 19-8 with 2 division titles.

There, I didn't say a word about Butch or what I think of him either.
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Broken program? LOL! Mc took over an offense that was broken, yes, but a defense that was loaded with talent and one of the best in the nation. And he hired a good DC to run it. And that defense won him the East 2 years in a row when UGA and UT blew their respective shots.

I know, I know. I am making more 'excuses' because I'm not idolizing Mc.
 
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#43
#43
Doberman said:
The only comparison that matters:

McIlwain does more with less.

Butch does less with more.
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McILWAIN HAS MORE NOW we are below the Gator's and Dawgs in the East in talent below Bama and LSU and Auburn in the West and Texas AM on par with Miss. State overall we are about a 3rd place team or a 8 win program some don't won't to hear it but we are not a elite team these day's it's like the 70's and early 80's win 7 or 8 game's and be happy that who we are.:thud:look at our AD hire we settled for average and we will be a average football program for the next 10 year's you got to get some of these people with power out and replace them with someone who really cares about the sport's program.:eek:hmy:
 
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#44
#44
Ancient Reptile said:
I know, I know: there's no comparison. Still, I find it interesting that I see these similarities. (1) Both teams should have their best O-lines in several years;(2) Both teams have work to do in the secondary;(3) Both teams are looking for quarterbacks.
Guess you guys are returning more experienced D-lines and we have more experienced RBs. Don't know about LBs. All right, have at it and, for the record, I intend nothing bad in posting this.
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With this season's game being played in FLorida and us embarrassing the last season, I think that we will lose the FLorida game this season. However; we do not need to beat them in order to get to the SECCG.
Remember had we beat USC & Vandy, we still could have gone to the SECCG even if we had not beat FLorida.
 
#45
#45
Crazy Ivan said:
Broken program? LOL! Mc took over an offense that was broken, yes, but a defense that was loaded with talent and one of the best in the nation. And he hired a good DC to run it. And that defense won him the East 2 years in a row when UGA and UT blew their respective shots.

I know, I know. I am making more 'excuses' because I'm not idolizing Mc.
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I didn't say broken defense, I said broken program.....and by definition at a school like Florida, a 2-year record of 10-13 is "broken".
 
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#47
#47
Rudy123 said:
With this season's game being played in FLorida and us embarrassing the last season, I think that we will lose the FLorida game this season. However; we do not need to beat them in order to get to the SECCG.
Remember had we beat USC & Vandy, we still could have gone to the SECCG even if we had not beat FLorida.
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Had we not beaten Florida last year and beaten both SCar and Vandy, we'd have been 5-3 in conference, while Florida would've been 7-1 and UF would've still played in the SECCG.
 
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#48
#48
As has been mentioned several times before, while I appreciate Daj's analysis, any system that would conclude that Nick Saban is an underachiever is a highly flawed system.

There are several other problems. It goes strictly by recruiting rankings. Florida did not sign either Luke Del Rio or Austin Appleby out of high school. It does not account for attrition that led to a player named Mason Halter (a transfer from Fordham) starting at RT in 2015.

And it doesn't take into consideration "busts". There is a point where Dillon Bates stops being a 4* linebacker and starts being a dude who passes out Gatorade. Where Johnny Manziel stops being a 3* QB and starts being a Heisman Trophy winner.

I was very (for those who don't remember) vocal about Florida's lack of talent when Mac arrived. He inherited half a team. Wasn't even left a kicker. The first spring at Florida, Florida had 6 offensive lineman for spring practice. No, that's not a joke. 6.

And, yes, as someone else mentioned, to be what is clearly a flawed team and get to the SEC Championship game with 4 quarterbacks (3 of which don't throw the ball as well as a monkey can throw turds at the zoo) is a pretty good coaching job. And I would argue, despite Daj's analysis, there were a few teams in the last 2 seasons that Mac would have gladly traded rosters before the game that Florida beat.

My sense is that Mac is not the guy who is going to take a team to the promised land, but I can't really judge him at this point. This is the first year where all the reasons (or excuses depending on your point of view) are over.

If Florida still struggles to make a first down, cross midfield, etc. It's on Mac now.
 
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#49
#49
Orange_Vol1321 said:
You guys are funny with the SOS all the time.
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#50
#50
BeardedVol said:
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You can post your memes all you want. I give my reasons on why I thought we might be 9-3, 10-2, or even 11-1.


You all just get on here and say Butch sucks over and over. If you want to debate then atleast bring some material that even some kid in the 6th grade could think of.
 
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