The Tennessee Running Attack is Criminally Underrated

#76
#76
Regardless of competition, I was surprised to find out JK had more yards than Kamara, but I also forgot he got hurt some and allowed him to get more PT.
I have been underestimating them but I'm starting to get excited especially about Chandler. I do think, as I posted before, RB may be more key than QB.

This is partly because statistics can be misleading. Kamara got a ton of yards on passing plays, many of which were more like "running plays." That's why I put a pretty big emphasis on Kamara's receiving yards and it's also why I think Kamara was one the most underrated Tennessee RBs of all-time. Most people just look at "rushing yards", but with AK, that only tells half the story.

That said, I do think many people are underestimating John Kelly's output. It's pretty crazy to me that there are people in this thread commenting that 'we haven't seen much of Kelly' and 'Kelly has barely been on the field.' If Kelly had played all season, he's likely a 1,000 yard back (and his numbers are much better than Hurd's). He played half the season and ran for 630 yards, with above-average numbers. He's not quite "elite", but he's pretty damn good.
 
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#77
#77
This is partly because statistics can be misleading. Kamara got a ton of yards on passing plays, many of which were more like "running plays." That's why I put a pretty big emphasis on Kamara's receiving yards and it's also why I think Kamara was one the most underrated Tennessee RBs of all-time. Most people just look at "rushing yards", but with AK, that only tells half the story.

That said, I do think many people are underestimating John Kelly's output. It's pretty crazy to me that there are people in this thread commenting that 'we haven't seen much of Kelly' and 'Kelly has barely been on the field.' If Kelly had played all season, he's likely a 1,000 yard back (and his numbers are much better than Hurd's). He played half the season and ran for 630 yards, with above-average numbers. He's not quite "elite", but he's pretty damn good.

Agree with your assessment of Kelly. We've seen a lot of him and it's been good, at times really good.

When Hurd wasn't there vs TAM, Kelly gave us 14 touches for 101 yards. Followed by 15 touches for 111 yards vs SCar in relief of Hurd after he quit.

Last 3 SEC games and bowl game vs Nebraska, 58 carries for 317 yards and a couple of tds....5.5 yards per carry, behind a very suspect OL. I've seen enough of John Kelly to believe very confidently that he's a very good SEC running back. Just gotta get better at ball security imo.
 
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#78
#78
Boom Williams is an undrafted free agent with the Bengals.

Losing Boom was massive. Kid was an amazing player when he was locked in. Had a lot of issues outside football and never got to see his full potential realized. Sad to see him leave and now be cut from the Bengals. Outside forces influenced him to leave. If he stayed he would have gone down as one of the top RB's in our history.

On topic...not sure how we can declare UT underrated in the SEC when UT (for the most part) is an unknown. Kelly was good, very good. But good against Texas A&M, UK, USCjr, and Missouri only means so much imo. The depth behind Kelly is good on paper, but unproven. I will love to see him run behind an improved OL as well. UT has potential to be right there at the top of the 2nd tier, but we have to see it first before we declare it there.

To be honest, outside Bama, LSU, and UGA...no one else really amazes me. A number of teams have sec caliber starters (UK, Texas A&M, Auburn, Vandy, UT and Arkansas). But the depth behind a lot of those teams is suspect. As always, plenty of newcomers will stand out and plenty of "on-paper" stars will flop.
 
#79
#79
Tennessee's defense is winning in practice and the rushing attack is winning too, how do you figure this one out?:eek:lol:
 
#80
#80
Losing Boom was massive. Kid was an amazing player when he was locked in. Had a lot of issues outside football and never got to see his full potential realized. Sad to see him leave and now be cut from the Bengals. Outside forces influenced him to leave. If he stayed he would have gone down as one of the top RB's in our history.

On topic...not sure how we can declare UT underrated in the SEC when UT (for the most part) is an unknown. Kelly was good, very good. But good against Texas A&M, UK, USCjr, and Missouri only means so much imo. The depth behind Kelly is good on paper, but unproven. I will love to see him run behind an improved OL as well. UT has potential to be right there at the top of the 2nd tier, but we have to see it first before we declare it there.

To be honest, outside Bama, LSU, and UGA...no one else really amazes me. A number of teams have sec caliber starters (UK, Texas A&M, Auburn, Vandy, UT and Arkansas). But the depth behind a lot of those teams is suspect. As always, plenty of newcomers will stand out and plenty of "on-paper" stars will flop.

Who are all UKs SEC caliber starters again? i mean lets be real there hasnt been many the last couple years. All the ones i saw last year are not still currently with UK except for Jordan Jones, Westry and Snell. Maybe a couple OL, one of which is injured. Thats about 5 guys. And what amazes you about LSU again?
 
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#82
#82
Who are all UKs SEC caliber starters again? i mean lets be real there hasnt been many the last couple years. All the ones i saw last year are not still currently with UK except for Jordan Jones, Westry and Snell. Maybe a couple OL, one of which is injured. Thats about 5 guys. And what amazes you about LSU again?

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#83
#83
It has always amazed me how important preseason projections is to some of you. And while I can truly appreciate the amount of thought and work the OP put into his analysis, I fail to see the point. It's almost like if the media doesn't gush over either the team or the individual players, it causes impotency or heart palpitations. And even when they do gush, they don't gush enough.

Most of these sports writers are complete idiots. Now some here might be idiots, but not complete ones if you are Vols fans. Are these jackasses worth you all getting your tails tied in knots over? Set yourselves free! You'll live longer.

Sports writers are mostly idiots who weren't talented enough to play a sport. Which is why I wish they would just put two former coaches/players in the booth.
 
#84
#84
Losing Boom was massive. Kid was an amazing player when he was locked in. Had a lot of issues outside football and never got to see his full potential realized. Sad to see him leave and now be cut from the Bengals. Outside forces influenced him to leave. If he stayed he would have gone down as one of the top RB's in our history.

On topic...not sure how we can declare UT underrated in the SEC when UT (for the most part) is an unknown. Kelly was good, very good. But good against Texas A&M, UK, USCjr, and Missouri only means so much imo. The depth behind Kelly is good on paper, but unproven. I will love to see him run behind an improved OL as well. UT has potential to be right there at the top of the 2nd tier, but we have to see it first before we declare it there.

To be honest, outside Bama, LSU, and UGA...no one else really amazes me. A number of teams have sec caliber starters (UK, Texas A&M, Auburn, Vandy, UT and Arkansas). But the depth behind a lot of those teams is suspect. As always, plenty of newcomers will stand out and plenty of "on-paper" stars will flop.

Kelly had a pretty good game against Nebraska, did you catch the Music City Bowl last season? Kelly isn't what the Vols are used to at the RB position, but he's certainly one of the top half dozen starting RB's in the SEC.
 
#85
#85
Seems the sports writers are too lazy to extrapolate on 2016 to figure out where Kelly really stands.

Here are the stats:

Kelly had significant play time in 7 games last season (A&M when Hurd sat out, and then the last 6 games after Hurd quit).

In those 7 games, he totalled:
  • 92 carries for 604 rushing yards (that's 6.6 ypc) and 4 TD
  • another 41 yds and 1 TD from 4 catches (10.3 ypc)
  • totalling 645 all-purpose yds and 5 TDs in 96 plays (6.7 ypp)
  • which averages out to 92 yards per game.
And this was mostly splitting carries with Alvin Kamara.

If Kelly had played as one of our two main backs the first half the season as well, he would've ended up with 1,122 rushing yards, and 1,198 all-purpose yards.

That would put him pretty much even with Nick Chubb at 7th in the SEC in 2016.

Yep, I'd say John Kelly is being overlooked by the media, by and large.

The argument "they haven't even played yet" is valid for our other RBs, but not for Kelly. He's already a known (and valuable) commodity for Team 121.

Go Vols!


p.s. This also tells us that our OLine weren't too shabby with run blocking in the A&M game and the last half of the season, either. It wasn't just Dobbs' renowned elusiveness, Kelly and Kamara were racking up yards. And that almost always means there's some good blocking going on.
 
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#87
#87
You serious Clark?

Clearly it's all conjeture before a single game has been played, but I believe he's saying we're criminally underrated by many fans and media outlets, such as SDS, SECC, Athlon etc.

After losing Hurd Kamara and Dobbs I don't know how you'd rank UT any other way. Play on the field will determine all. You put up 400 yards on the ground against GT and the opinions will change. If the effort looks pedestrian each of the first 4 or 5 weeks given our opponents then the media and fans will have been proven right. It's all going to work itself out in time. I don't think we have the kind of team anymore to where you can get behind a ranking or prediction with any kind of certainty. So if predictions in general are guesses at best then predictions about an unpredictable team are even more uncertain. You may have lots of hidden or not so hidden talent on the roster but talent alone doesn't win games. The coaching must be taken into account. Football isn't the kind of sport where a player can take it upon himself to take over and dominate a game. He must be put into the right situation to maximize his talents and give him the best shot to succeed. Kelly might be that guy assuming he isn't hurt from overuse and poor OL play. Again time will work all that out. Being good on paper doesn't matter and being good in practice doesn't matter either. Gotta do it when the ball is snapped in regulation. Until then there's no empirical evidence to back up a high rating that I can see.
 
#88
#88
Seems the sports writers are too lazy to extrapolate on 2016 to figure out where Kelly really stands.

Here are the stats:

Kelly had significant play time in 7 games last season (A&M when Hurd sat out, and then the last 6 games after Hurd quit).

In those 7 games, he totalled:
  • 92 carries for 604 rushing yards (that's 6.6 ypc) and 4 TD
  • another 41 yds and 1 TD from 4 catches (10.3 ypc)
  • totalling 645 all-purpose yds and 5 TDs in 96 plays (6.7 ypp)
  • which averages out to 92 yards per game.
And this was mostly splitting carries with Alvin Kamara.

If Kelly had played as one of our two main backs the first half the season as well, he would've ended up with 1,122 rushing yards, and 1,198 all-purpose yards.

That would put him pretty much even with Nick Chubb at 7th in the SEC in 2016.

Yep, I'd say John Kelly is being overlooked by the media, by and large.

The argument "they haven't even played yet" is valid for our other RBs, but not for Kelly. He's already a known (and valuable) commodity for Team 121.

Go Vols!


p.s. This also tells us that our OLine weren't too shabby with run blocking in the A&M game and the last half of the season, either. It wasn't just Dobbs' renowned elusiveness, Kelly and Kamara were racking up yards. And that almost always means there's some good blocking going on.
I think the media sees the majority of Kelly's yards coming against terrible defenses in the second half of the season. If they had seen him put up big yards against Bama UF UGA OT VT maybe they would give him more credit.
 
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#89
#89
I think the media sees the majority of Kelly's yards coming against terrible defenses in the second half of the season. If they had seen him put up big yards against Bama UF UGA OT VT maybe they would give him more credit.

Even crazier, our Oline was not good the second half of the year, so he ran well against lesser D's but ALSO, had substandard SEC blocking. He is gonna be great with good blocking against good SEC D's!
 
#90
#90
I think the media sees the majority of Kelly's yards coming against terrible defenses in the second half of the season. If they had seen him put up big yards against Bama UF UGA OT VT maybe they would give him more credit.

Kelly had a 4-yard goalline defense TD against Va Tech, granted, it was at the tail end of the game once we'd crushed their spirits.

He had one of his best games of the year against A&M. Now, they're not a strong defense, but still an SEC West defense, and he rocked against them.

Also had a really good game against Nebraska, a top-30 defense.

So I would not conclude that he can only run well against the Vandys and Tennessee Techs of the world.

If that is the reason the media overlooks him, they're missing something. He's a proven commodity, looks like to me.
 
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#91
#91
Kelly had a 4-yard goalline defense TD against Va Tech, granted, it was at the tail end of the game once we'd crushed their spirits.

He had one of his best games of the year against A&M. Now, they're not a strong defense, but still an SEC West defense, and he rocked against them.

Also had a really good game against Nebraska, a top-30 defense.

So I would not conclude that he can only run well against the Vandys and Tennessee Techs of the world.

If that is the reason the media overlooks him, they're missing something. He's a proven commodity, looks like to me.

I hope it's true. We will know one way or another as he is our new #1. We probably live or die by his legs.
 
#92
#92
Silly OP: You can't be underrated or overrated until games are played, and players play. Yea, the college football media speculates--that's what they do in the preseason every year. It doesn't mean much, and I'm always amused at how fans get their shorts in a knot because of preseason speculation.
 
#93
#93
There’s no position group on this 2017 Vols team more underrated than Running Back. The media views John Kelly as a below-average SEC back. Even here on the VN boards, I've heard many say that JK is not that special. While I don't think John Kelly quite rises to the level of "elite" SEC Running Back (right now, only Derrius Guice, Damien Harris, and a healthy Nick Chubb fit that description), I do think there's a strong statistical case that he's underrated and our rushing attack overall is being severely underrated by the media.


The Media Thinks We Suck!

First let’s see how the media is looking at RBs. The article linked below provides Fansided's RB rankings for each team's projected #1 Running Back:

Ranking the SEC's Running Backs

John Kelly is rated #12 out of 14. Ouch. Saturday Down South and SEC Country also posted the top 10 returning RBs in the SEC:

SDS: Top 10 SEC RBs in 2017
SEC Country: Top 10 SEC RBs in 2017

John Kelly did not make either list. Finally, Athlon ranked the SEC’s projected RB tandems:

Athlon: Rating the SEC RB Tandems

Tennessee is ranked a dismal #12. This is INSANE! Not only are we not the 3rd worst rushing team in the conference, but we’re easily in the top half.


The Statistical Case for John Kelly

First off, let's take a look at the stats for SEC Running Backs last season. I'm primarily focusing on two stats:

(1) Yards per carry, and
(2) Receiving yards per game

I’m also only evaluating games against Power 5 opponents. Cupcake games and even games against G5 teams often skew rushing stats. Some of the RBs the media is touting as putting up great numbers are racking up most of their yards against subpar competition.


Ranking the 2016 Running Backs


Using the criteria spelled out above, I’ve ranked 25 SEC Running Backs from 2016. John Kelly fares relatively well on yards per carry at 9th in the SEC. Also note that 4 of the RBs in front of him are now either in the NFL or at least through with college ball.

JK’s one weakness, however, is that he wasn’t a particularly prolific receiver. While JK and Alvin Kamara have similar YPC stats, Kamara was the #1 RB in the SEC (by a mile!) for receiving yards per game. I think you can make the case that Rawleigh Williams’ receiving yards should push him above JK in the RB rankings. For this reason, I have Kamara as the #3 SEC RB in 2016, with John Kelly as #11. You can see my 2016 rankings in the chart below:

VN%20RBs2016.jpg



Ranking the Returning SEC RBs


Four of the backs above Kelly have moved on (i.e. graduated or gone pro.) That would put Kelly at #7 for returning backs if we use straight-line logic. Except that there’s a very strong argument that Nick Chubb’s injury harmed his numbers significantly and that a healthy Chubb should be ranked much higher. Given that, I’d rate John Kelly as the #8 returning RB in the SEC.

(1) Derrius Guice
(2) Damien Harris
(3) Nick Chubb
(4) Damarea Crockett
(5) Sony Michel
(6) Trayveon Williams
(7) Bo Scarborough
(8) John Kelly

Practice reports suggest that Kelly has become better at catching the ball this offseason. That could add a pretty big dimension to his game. While we shouldn’t expect JK to suddenly look like Alvin Kamara, even if his receiving output increases from 3.6 yards per game to something like 8 – 10 ypg, that’s a big plus and could allow him to move further up these rankings, as well.


The New Recruits and Ty Chandler

We can’t merely look at the returning RBs. We also need to look at new RBs, including recruits.

247 Top Running Backs from 2017 Class

Alabama added the #1 rated RB in the nation (Najee Harris) and the #8 RB (Brian Robinson) for the 2017 class, while Georgia added the #4 back (D’Andre Swift). Our Vols added the #5 RB with Ty Chandler. Auburn added the #11 RB with Devan Barrett and Miss State adds the #14 RB with Kylin Hill. No other SEC team added a top 20 RB.

Ty Chandler is a true Freshman RB, so we don’t have good data on him yet. He is expected to be an immediate contributor given his high recruiting ranking. He rushed for over 2,000 yards at Montgomery Bell Academy in Nashville the past two seasons. The practice reports on Ty have also been extremely promising. Whether Ty can be a threat as a receiver, as well, remains to be seen.

Regardless, there’s a good case that Ty immediately walks into the SEC as a top 12 Running Back. Comparatively speaking, Ty was rated higher than #4 RB from the 2016 class, Devwah Whaley of Arkansas. The 2017 Running Back class was deeper than usual; if Ty had been in the 2016 class, he would’ve been the #3 rated RB. Based on this, Ty could easily turn into a top 5 RB in the SEC at some point; albeit, it may take a season or two.


Overall Team Rankings

Factoring in new Freshman, last year’s performance, improvement, and the such, I think you could argue we have a top 10 SEC back with John Kelly and Ty Chandler projects as being somewhere around #12 right now.

Ranking the SEC RB stables, here’s how I would go.

1. Alabama. Damien Harris, Bo Scarborough, Najee Harris, Brian Robinson. Bama is absolutely loaded at RB. Bama could lose its top 2 backs and not drop off that much, which you can’t say about two many teams in the NCAA.

2. Georgia. Nick Chubb, Sony Michel, D’Andre Swift, Elijah Holyfield. Georgia has been loaded at RB for a long while now. If Chubb is healthy, he’s one of the best RBs in college football. Sony Michel is also arguably a top 5 SEC Running Back. Then add highly-touted 5-star recruit D’Andre Swift and Elijah Holyfield, and you have one of the deepest, most talented backfields in college football.

3. LSU. Derrius Guice, Darrel Williams. Guice is a beast and may be the #1 Running Back in the SEC right now. Behind Guice there are more question marks. Darrel Williams is currently listed as the #2 as a Senior, and his stats are quite pedestrian. Nevertheless, if Guice remains healthy, there will be no problems with the LSU running game. If Guice suffers an injury, it’s tough to say what will happen with the LSU run game; is there another star waiting in the wings?

4. Texas A&M. Treyveon Williams, Keith Ford. Trayveon Williams comes off an impressive Freshman season averaging 6.9 yards per carry against P5 opponents. 2nd string Senior RB Keith Ford was not as impressive as Williams, but did put up about 5.0 yards per carry, which is around middle-of-the-pack for the SEC. A&M has a few other options, as well, including Kendall Bussey and Senior James White. Overall, A&M’s combo of a very good #1 RB, plus reasonable depth makes them #4 on the list.

5. Tennessee. John Kelly, Ty Chandler, Tim Jordan, Carlin Fils-Aime. The Vols don’t have the depth of Georgia or Alabama, or a superstar of Derrius Guice’s caliber, but we’re still ahead of most of the conference with a handful of very good backs. JK and Ty Chandler should give us at least 2 quality options. It seems as if Robert Gillespie found an underrated gem with 3-star Tim Jordan, who is going to provide some depth this season. We also have former 4-star recruit and Sophomore Carlin Fils-Aime. There’s no way we’re #12 in the SEC with what we have right now. Best case, we’re top 3 behind UGA and Bama. Worst case, it’s difficult to justify putting us anywhere further down than #7.

6. Missouri. Damarea Crockett, Ish Witter. Crockett put up some extremely impressive numbers as a Freshman last season, averaging 7.2 yards per carry against P5 opponents. Crockett was an unheralded 3-star recruit who has far exceeded expectations. Unfortunately for Mizzou, there’s a huge drop-off after Crockett. Ish Witter only averaged 4.4 yards per carry. Mizzou’s run game can be strong this season, but if anything happens to Crockett, it’s going to plunge down these rankings; possibly as far as #13.

7. Auburn.
Kamryn Pettway, Kerryon Johnson , Devan Barrett. Similar to us, Auburn hasn’t had a true superstar emerge, but they have a stable of solid RBs, with some good depth. Pettway averaged a solid 5.5 yards per carry against P5 competition. While Kerryon Johnson’s numbers weren’t quite as strong at 4.5 ypc, he was one of the better RB-receivers in the SEC averaging 9.8 receiving yards per game. Devan Barrett is a 4-star recruit and could provide Auburn with some more depth this season. QB Jarrett Stidham may help take some pressure off the Auburn rushing attack, as well, providing more opportunities for Auburn’s RBs.

8. Miss State. Aeris Williams, Kylin Hill. Aeris Wiliams shows some promise, but behind him, Miss State might not have a lot of great options. That said, it may not matter much. The Miss State rushing attack is mostly going to come from QB Nick Fitzgerald, rather than the Running Backs.

9. Vanderbilt. Ralph Webb, Khari Blasingame. Easily the most overrated running attack in the SEC. Nothing against Ralph Webb, but the analysts love him because of his big yardage numbers that are being piled up largely because Vanderbilt doesn’t have a legit 2nd option. Ralph Webb is a top 15 SEC RB, but he is not “elite.” Even his yards per carry is propped up a bit because Vandy’s passing attack with Kyle Shurmur is the more dangerous part of the Vandy offense. Beyond Webb, there’s a pretty big dropoff. Khari Blasingame projects as the #2 RB and is rated #25 out of 25 in 2016 for the RBs I examined.

10. Kentucky. Benny Snell, Sihiem King. The media is really hyping up Kentucky this season. Ben Snell was a reasonable option as the #1 RB, but I have him rated as #15 in the SEC for last season, with 5.2 yards per carry against P5 competition. Junior RB Sihiem King had a great game against Tennessee last season, but has mostly played garbage time otherwise.

11. Arkansas.
Devwah Whaley, David Williams. Devwah Whaley was rated #18 on my yards per carry stat, but he was one of the best RB-receivers in the SEC, averaging 10.7 yards per game. David Williams is looking like the #2 back; he’s a graduate-transfer from South Carolina. He only averaged 4.6 ypc total and this is inflated against weaker competition. The fact that Arkansas picked up South Carolina’s rarely used 3rd string RB for more depth suggests that the Hogs may have some weakness at RB.

12. Florida. Jordan Scarlett, Lamical Perine. I’m in the camp that thinks Florida is being overrated in the preseason. Part of my belief is based on the idea that the defense is losing a lot of superstars and it’s going to be difficult to replace that production. The other part is that I’m still not sold on Florida’s offense. Right now, Florida does not have a top 15 SEC Running Back on its roster. Scarlett’s 4.9 yards per carry puts him at 16th out of 20 RBs I analyzed from 2016. He’s also not a threat receiving. Perine is below Scarlett on the depth chart and only averaged 4.6 yards per carry. Florida adds two unheralded 3-star recruits at RB; while it’s possible they have a diamond in the rough somewhere, I have no reason to suspect that’s the case.

13. South Carolina. Rico Dowdle, Ty’Son Williams. Rico Dowdle rushed for 4.7 yards per carry against P5 competition last season. I have him rated as the #22 SEC RB for 2016. Behind him is North Carolina transfer Ty’Son Williams. Williams was a 4-star recruit who saw little action during his Freshman campaign at UNC.

14. Ole Miss. Jordan Wilkins, Eric Swinney. Ole Miss already had one of the weakest rushing attacks in the SEC last season and they lose their #1 and #2 rushers from last season. They will get Senior Jordan Wilkins back from injury. He put up good rushing numbers in 2014, OK numbers in 2015 but emerged as more of a receiving threat. Overall, however, I expect Ole Miss to be bad this season. Probably the worst team in the SEC and a weak running game will be merely one part of the problem. Not only would I rate Ole Miss dead last, but I also think there's a pretty big gap between them and the #13 team on RBs.



That's all, folks.

GBO!
i kinda get it but you listed CFA 4th in your list of rb's for UT and that's a huge mistake. it sort of invalidates everything else you posted.

The reason out backfield is rated so low is because the only proven (even then partially proven) quantity is Kelly. JG is totally unproven and QB is only partially proven and underrated as a runner imo.

CFA got very few opportunities last year and the one time he really got the bell rung was the worst possible time. vs SC and his only bad play was his first snap from (hindsight 20/20) josh Dobbs at his worst. The USC is the only truly bad game I never saw josh Dobbs play in his UT career. and knowing what was actually going on that week its not surprising. Because of that people unilaterally wrote him (CFA) off. One play.The rest of his limited snaps were.. ok at worst. Hopefully the kid sees it as motivation and proves everyone wrong and chandler gets to fill in the mop up role this year.

Lets be real, I think Chandler is a future beast, but let him earn his stripes let him hungrily earn his time. CFA is the underrated part of this UT backfield.

Looking at backfield rankings and wondering why UT is rated so low is hilarious. Compared to the other 14 we have the most to prove. The backfield also takes into account the QB my friend and we have nothing proven there and that's where it all starts. Based on what we KNOW #12 is about right preseason. Do we end there? No way, unless both our QB's are pure trash. We end up top 5 in rushing imo based on what I feel. That's worst case unless Dormady starts and Scott decides to go air raid.

)
 
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#94
#94
I think the media sees the majority of Kelly's yards coming against terrible defenses in the second half of the season. If they had seen him put up big yards against Bama UF UGA OT VT maybe they would give him more credit.

Kinda my thinking. It doesn't mean i think Kelly is trash. Good running backs perform against anyone, regardless of opponent. But I want to see him against better defenses before I make a full judgment.
 
#95
#95
He wrote a novel explaining his point and all your questions are answered in it.

He answered the questions with what? His opinions? Vols are one of if not the least experienced teams at running back in the SEC. No starters returning and the depth has about one carry in an actual college football game and it was a game killing fumble.

I sure don't like to agree with Boca :) but, I have to agree with him on this. Vols have a lot of questions at RB and to be honest, they are probably ranked about where they should be, going into the year.
 
#96
#96
Kinda my thinking. It doesn't mean i think Kelly is trash. Good running backs perform against anyone, regardless of opponent. But I want to see him against better defenses before I make a full judgment.

The "Kelly only put up yards against weak defenses" would be an incredibly good argument if it were true. The problem is it's not. Many of the teams that Kelly 'racked up yards against' were SEC teams with good, albeit not elite defenses. Moreover, I stripped out the Tennessee Tech game from my analysis.

Against SEC opponents, Kelly has much better stats than Hurd on a per carry basis. Even on a total yards perspective, he significantly improved over Hurd with fewer carries against some SEC opponents (e.g. South Carolina, Kentucky), but it's not like we were "running the ball less." Rather, it's just that we distributed the carries more evenly between Kamara and Kelly, rather than shoving the ball into Hurd's hands every play.

When you actually do a deep-dive on the data, it's pretty obvious that Hurd was holding the offense back, and John Kelly has been a much better solution. Why did Hurd get so much respect but Kelly gets none:

(a) Hurd was a 5-star recruit and Kelly was a 3-star, and
(b) The media always overrates RBs who put up a lot of yards on a lot of carries [Ralph Webb is overrated for this same reason]

Do a comparison between Kelly and Hurd against the late-season opponents, and Kelly's stats are vastly superior. The only real question is whether there's a 2nd option between Kelly to split the carries and keep Kelly effective? I think with Ty Chandler, the answer is "yes", but that's more debatable.
 
#97
#97
The "Kelly only put up yards against weak defenses" would be an incredibly good argument if it were true. The problem is it's not. Many of the teams that Kelly 'racked up yards against' were SEC teams with good, albeit not elite defenses. Moreover, I stripped out the Tennessee Tech game from my analysis.

Do a comparison between Kelly and Hurd against the late-season opponents, and Kelly's stats are vastly superior. The only real question is whether there's a 2nd option between Kelly to split the carries and keep Kelly effective? I think with Ty Chandler, the answer is "yes", but that's more debatable.

Rushing Defense
UK - 106th
USCjr - 80th
Texas A&M - 84th
Missouri - 118th
Nebraska - 41th

Those are not good, or even average rushing defenses as a whole. Nebraska was towards the middle and Kelly had his lowest average in that game.

Most of the time you are spot on with analysis DG, but this is one situation where you are trying to prove B because of A when A has absolutely zero correlation on B's effectiveness. Kelly may well prove he can replicate the performances against bad teams in games against good teams this year. I hope he does. But it's hard for to put him in the same category as some of the other RB's that have already proven they can rush against anyone.
 
#98
#98
Rushing Defense
UK - 106th
USCjr - 80th
Texas A&M - 84th
Missouri - 118th
Nebraska - 41th

Those are not good, or even average rushing defenses as a whole. Nebraska was towards the middle and Kelly had his lowest average in that game.

Most of the time you are spot on with analysis DG, but this is one situation where you are trying to prove B because of A when A has absolutely zero correlation on B's effectiveness. Kelly may well prove he can replicate the performances against bad teams in games against good teams this year. I hope he does. But it's hard for to put him in the same category as some of the other RB's that have already proven they can rush against anyone.
leave the vacuum alone. in the offense Kelley just worked better. He fit in. I am the last person to say that he is a better back or was more talented than Hurd or Kamara. I do not believe that is true. He fis in our offense more perfectly than either though.

Kelly is good enough and our Oline is good enough and experienced enough to let him show out. F the QB situation works out. If QD shows better wheels than expected watch out IF Guratnamno wins the job and can throw.. watch out. JD was our Tebow. Had the defense stayed healthy and the oline not sucked... we'd be crowning Jones right now. Dobbs was the perfect QB to this O and until the end of his last year they never played to the level he deserved.
 
#99
#99
Rushing Defense
UK - 106th
USCjr - 80th
Texas A&M - 84th
Missouri - 118th
Nebraska - 41th

Those are not good, or even average rushing defenses as a whole. Nebraska was towards the middle and Kelly had his lowest average in that game.

You're comparing apples to oranges --- looking solely at yardage stats and not adjusting for factors such as # of plays, strength of schedule, strength of opposing teams' rushing game, etc.

Plays run:

Texas A&M: 953
Georgia: 919
Florida: 862
LSU: 757

A&M's run defense ranks low because A&M's offense is fast-paced. It also had to face some of the best rushing offenses in the NCAA: Bama, Tennessee, LSU, Auburn, Miss State. It's not an elite defense, but it's not a 'bad defense' as you claim. When adjusted for # of plays and schedule, A&M's rush defense is in the top third of college football. By the standard you're using, San Diego State's rush defense is better than LSU's. Mindlessly looking at Yards is a bad way to analyze performance --- which is precisely the point of my post. Kelly is underrated because sportswriters are mindlessly analyzing Yards.

Yet, my bigger problem with your argument is that you're cherry-picking data. You're essentially saying "Tennessee's running back is unproven because he put up yards against Nebraska, Texas A&M, and South Carolina BUT all these other RBs that put up yards against similar competition are legit." Tennessee played the SEC East teams, just like all the other SEC East teams played the SEC East teams. You can't say "the stats don't count here for this guy, but they do for this other guy in the exact same scenario." I'm analyzing everyone on relatively equal footing. You're selectively picking and choosing which data counts. Sure, John Kelly played Missouri's weaker run defense; so did Ralph Webb and Jordan Scarlett. Why do their stats count, but Kelly's don't?
 
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You serious Clark?

Clearly it's all conjeture before a single game has been played, but I believe he's saying we're criminally underrated by many fans and media outlets, such as SDS, SECC, Athlon etc.

OP's conclusions are all colored ORANGE...

Athlon's is probably closer to being an objective analysis...even Fla's starting RB has 179 carries in competition.

Face it...We lost Dobbs and Kamara with no one else with anywhere near the experience coming back. We're truly gonna learn just how valuable DOBBS was to our rushing attack over the last few years...

As much as we ALL like JK...and believe he is a good back....He has less than 150 carries and less than 1,000 career yards rushing....Facts are just Facts!

And putting Auburn and Vandy behind us--even if it is a preseason projection....is just plain STUPID....

Pettway and Johnson were stellar in '16...

Webb at Vandy is better than JK....it's just true....:salute:

Flame away...
 
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