The Brick Wall That Is Tennessee Baseball

[vol66]

Kendall has to know the sheer amount of talent Serrano had to choose from in Cali and that Fullerton is for all intents and purposes a glorified JUCO in terms of academics. I'm not saying academics is holding him back here but it's not a concern at all at a place like Fullerton. Fullerton is a hell of a program, and they may be just that, a great program. Gerrido CWS, Horton CWS, Serrano CWS, Vanderhook CWS. Even you and I may just be knowledgeable enough to not screw it up if we had the opportunity.

It's interesting what people think is important. Obviously, being in California, there's a recruiting hot bed. That's important, most important. I agree with that.

Other than that, the biggest advantage they have is...not academic, not even tradition though that's big (recruits know who they are and that they will play in the post season), certainly not facilities...

It's that Fullerton and Irvine don't compete with football for resources. Baseball is THE sport. That community cares about baseball as much as we care about football. It IS their football.

Obviously, they can play baseball year around, they don't need indoor facilities, the same thing applies to Florida, to Texas...so we should stop talking about whether or not we could run a program out there, because that doesn't have anything to do with what we face.

Our facilities are average, I think they are below the SEC average, but that might be debatable.

For 15 year, 16 year old kids we have no tradition. We can't sell post season. It's actually worse than that, the program has been at the bottom of the SEC their entire lives and if they are from the state of Tennessee they WANT to go to Vanderbilt, their parents want them to go to go to Vanderbilt for different reasons and if Corbin doesn't want them, they start looking at MSU, Ole Miss, South Carolina and if they don't get what they want...then they'll consider Tennessee and that's if we somehow offer more than they've been offered elsewhere.

We've gotten some kids drafted as of last year but not on par with our counter parts.

UGA just upgraded, UK is getting a new stadium, Vandy is upgrading and SC and UF don't need to do anything but maintain what they got. That's the east, well Missouri, the northern most out post.

The schools in the west are almost in another league. Bama is playing it's first season in a brand new stadium. Ole Miss and MSU, LSU can sell their atmosphere alone...yeah they have all the other stuff too...LSU spends more money on baseball than any school in the country...it's not like Arkansas is a red headed step child and I've already said Auburn doesn't get the bang for it's buck. TAMU has everything going for it.

The one thing that we have through Serrano is USA baseball, I don't know if kids care about that...that's it. The difference is Stewie had to make the team where as the Vandy players were invited. That's what was so satisfying in watching him lead every offensive category for USA Baseball.

I appreciate the debate BG, you always keep it civil and I agree with you more than I disagree usually...this time we'll have to agree to disagree unfortunately.

Have a good evening.


GBO!!!

 

[crossvilledore]

Vandy also bused to College Station. The drive home was twice as long.

No wonder they played like hot garbage. It's amazing they kept the SEC series not being swept streak alive.

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuX8t6bC2nM[/youTube]

This is from 4 years ago, but this is Vanderbilt's baseball facilities that are being upgraded to the max.

 

[vol66]

I am with you on this. However, I am not the guy you need with you.

For it to change, the guys you need with you are boosters; folks that can sit down with ADs and administrators who convince them baseball and the other sports not properly funded needs their just due when it comes to budgeting.

That is how things have worked at UT for years. And it will probably be how it continues. Regardless of who is AD, or who is coaching. Nothing changes until a booster lights a fire under their feet.

I've been thinking about this post because you are probably right, undoubtably right. I didn't know exactly what to say and I wanted to let it fester in my weirdo brain.

In the revenue sports, attendance matters. Petitions matter. Everybody has a voice and if those voices are loud enough, it can help move the powers that be.

Three years ago I started complaining about the fact that UT didn't cover the players when they went off to play summer ball...not verbally, I started doing it here. I followed them, I put links so you could watch or listen, I put up every single player's stats and eventually UT started doing it too.

I assumed, that if they could see an interest, whomever was updating "UT players in the Pros" would start updating our players too. I don't know if that did the trick, but they started doing it.

They certainly didn't like when I got CDS's postgame up here before they could get it up at UTSports...they see what goes on here, I'm convinced of that. I was steamed at first because I was just trying to help, but I understand they want people to go to their site, while also realizing that more people will see it here.

So now it's funny...because I bet I spend more time at UTSports.com than anyone on this planet that doesn't work for UT Sports in some capacity.

When I open up the stats at UTsports.com, you know where it's got the batting, then the pitching, then the fielding and then SEC stats only...there is a blue header that covers up all of the categories, I have to click on the "print" version just to read it. I thought it was probably just my computer, but of course I go to other SEC schools and it's not an issue, and even if it is my set up why don't they make it work for all systems...it's irritating as all get out and it's been that way for years now.

When I say, I don't believe they care...it's these little things, that other schools do so easily...televising all the games...post games...fireworks...promotions...

Sorry...to your point, this is where I yell, this is where I express it and if the boosters can't be bothered I'll just keep needling UT right here, I'm sure they don't care...it's painfully obvious as far as baseball.

 

[Titan05]

I guess we should leave it at this: I don't believe UT is providing the baseball coach with all the resources he deserves or that they can muster. I don't believe they held up their end. I don't think they have a vision for the baseball program. Can I prove it? Can I pull out documents that provide evidence from every SEC school? No. I can't.

They aren't willing to take the petty loss to show the midweek games but other schools do, because they lack a vision about where baseball and softball are going. The popularity is going to grow, just like women's basketball and it's due to television.

They routinely make grammar school errors in their weekend release.

The post home game press conference looks like something channel 6 would do after a high school game compared to a Holbrook or Corbin post game, where they sit down, at a table, with working microphones and the school banner and take questions from reporters that you can actually hear.

When the baseball coach lucks into flying to Missouri because they couldn't secure two sleeper buses for the 10 hour drive...I mean...what the hell kind of planning is that? Travel ball teams are more organized than that.

Many have commented that the players we have don't look like SEC type players. Neither does the program.

We may never be THE program, but we shouldn't be the next to last worst job in the SEC.

There's 120 million reasons why we shouldn't...but here we sit.

Post of the year. Preach on!

 

[buvol]

There has always been am implied "if they win, they will come", perhaps that is misguided. I do think the players are well taken care of by the baseball program. They have great facilities and have plenty of gear and uniforms, etc. There is not the same atmosphere at the games and there is a sense that the students and the rest of university does not make them a big priority. I always assumed that winning would change that environment. Perhaps, the AD and administration need to show the committment to the program with an all out publicity effort. Again, they treat the kids pretty good, but it is not at the same level as the top programs. Recruits need to know the level of committment. It is a great place to go to school and the sec is the best place to play baseball. I think Serrano will make every effort to figure it out. I honestly do not know if he will get it done. I would give him 2 more years and push program hard. Baseball should be a bunch of fun at the sec level.

 

[whobethis16]

Here's the thing BG...I'll grant that money had been mismanaged somehow, someway by the former AD and that reserves were/are lower than what they ought to be...reserves.

You make a budget for sports based on the revenue you are projected to have, which barring some unforeseen calamity, is pretty easy to project in most areas. Maybe in the first year of the SECN, you might not be able to accurately project what that was gonna be...but the ball park area of revenue from the three major sports, revenue from March Madness, payouts from Bowls, TV, Merchandise, Tickets, donations...I can't think of a year when revenues dropped dramatically, there may be times where it remains stagnant, I remember around Dooley's first year it was around 100 million, he even remarked on it. I remember when we passed the 110 Million mark a couple of years ago and now we are over 120 Million.

My point is this. I realize football drives the machine. I realize that the fans of this program are loyal, passionate and we attend in big numbers all three of the major sports even when we are losing. We're building three new football fields and a brand new dorm.

But we can't come up with 50-75 grand to show the midweek games?

Last year would have been the year to fire Serrano. Expectations were high and the results were below par. Everybody new what was in store this season, some said if he could make a regional with this team he would deserve COY.

Maybe they wanted to give him one last shot because they like him.

Or...maybe they are just so cheap they didn't want to pay the buyout because the fans aren't going to lose any sleep over another losing year in baseball.

Maybe it was both.

I guess we should leave it at this: I don't believe UT is providing the baseball coach with all the resources he deserves or that they can muster. I don't believe they held up their end. I don't think they have a vision for the baseball program. Can I prove it? Can I pull out documents that provide evidence from every SEC school? No. I can't.

They aren't willing to take the petty loss to show the midweek games but other schools do, because they lack a vision about where baseball and softball are going. The popularity is going to grow, just like women's basketball and it's due to television.

They routinely make grammar school errors in their weekend release.

The post home game press conference looks like something channel 6 would do after a high school game compared to a Holbrook or Corbin post game, where they sit down, at a table, with working microphones and the school banner and take questions from reporters that you can actually hear.

When the baseball coach lucks into flying to Missouri because they couldn't secure two sleeper buses for the 10 hour drive...I mean...what the hell kind of planning is that? Travel ball teams are more organized than that.

Many have commented that the players we have don't look like SEC type players. Neither does the program.

We may never be THE program, but we shouldn't be the next to last worst job in the SEC.

There's 120 million reasons why we shouldn't...but here we sit.

Mic drop.

 

[whobethis16]

There has always been am implied "if they win, they will come", perhaps that is misguided. I do think the players are well taken care of by the baseball program. They have great facilities and have plenty of gear and uniforms, etc. There is not the same atmosphere at the games and there is a sense that the students and the rest of university does not make them a big priority. I always assumed that winning would change that environment. Perhaps, the AD and administration need to show the committment to the program with an all out publicity effort. Again, they treat the kids pretty good, but it is not at the same level as the top programs. Recruits need to know the level of committment. It is a great place to go to school and the sec is the best place to play baseball. I think Serrano will make every effort to figure it out. I honestly do not know if he will get it done. I would give him 2 more years and push program hard. Baseball should be a bunch of fun at the sec level.

The Vandy and Florida series each brought in 6k+ fans for each weekend. I know that includes the season ticket sales that don't show (but the AD doesn't care as long as the tickets are sold) and the Saturday Kentucky game was more crowded than any other. And that was without this team being very good.

Now, that could be because of who was in town, the nice weather and nothing else to do, or any other number of reasons, but I was surprised nonetheless. Imagine what would happen if the AD took the next step like 66 has been preaching. It needs to happen in the worst way. I think that even if the team is not very good, if things are improved (concession lines, tvs for those in line, better promotions than "sing for your supper", etc) they will draw 3k every game.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

There has always been am implied "if they win, they will come", perhaps that is misguided. I do think the players are well taken care of by the baseball program. They have great facilities and have plenty of gear and uniforms, etc. There is not the same atmosphere at the games and there is a sense that the students and the rest of university does not make them a big priority. I always assumed that winning would change that environment. Perhaps, the AD and administration need to show the committment to the program with an all out publicity effort. Again, they treat the kids pretty good, but it is not at the same level as the top programs. Recruits need to know the level of committment. It is a great place to go to school and the sec is the best place to play baseball. I think Serrano will make every effort to figure it out. I honestly do not know if he will get it done. I would give him 2 more years and push program hard. Baseball should be a bunch of fun at the sec level.

Can drinking take place on the left field porch? To me, one of the coolest things to see is when Ole Miss hits a HR and all the students in right field throw their beers in the air (not that I care to be soaked in beer, coke or any other liquid). But still, it's a laid-back, party atmosphere at Ole Miss, State and elsewhere.

Students rarely came out to games when I was in school in the mid 2000's. I couldn't pay a friend/roommate/fraternity brother to go with me. There was just no interest for some reason.

There's just not many things better than kicking back and soaking up the sun and a ball game. It's why I go to Hoover every year for a few days, regardless if we're there or not.

 

[vol66]

My understanding BG is that "the Porch" it is allowed, BYOB and a cup to "hide"it....the 3rd base side area, I don't think it's allowed there...not sure though.

 

[HeyBuddy]

Kendall has to know the sheer amount of talent Serrano had to choose from in Cali and that Fullerton is for all intents and purposes a glorified JUCO in terms of academics. I'm not saying academics is holding him back here but it's not a concern at all at a place like Fullerton. Fullerton is a hell of a program, and they may be just that, a great program. Gerrido CWS, Horton CWS, Serrano CWS, Vanderhook CWS. Even you and I may just be knowledgeable enough to not screw it up if we had the opportunity.

First of all, Cal State Fullerton is not even close to a JUCO...it is a respected university with close to 40,000 students. It has an acceptance rate of about 40%. I am not saying it is a more respected university than UT, but let's be honest...the SEC does a great job of finding ways to give some great athletes a top flight JUCO education. You are forgetting that CDS went to UCI a school that has higher academics than UT and won there too. Instead of trying to say that Fullerton is some factory that is on auto-pilot...how about this...Horton left and has been successful at Oregon, Garrido left and was successful at Illinois and Texas, Vanderhook was a big part of the UCLA resurgence before coming back to Fullerton...maybe it is these guys can just flat out coach. I think this thread is powerful because it is examining the program. When you examine the program, sure look at the coach, but it is time to examine everything...they should be on TV, they should travel like the rest of the top teams, the recruiting budget must be higher than the top programs if you are competing for players (especially if they are out of state), you need to find ways to better fund scholarships for out of state students...obviously it is a combination of everything....Gotta outspend Hertz to beat them...Get'r done Admin!

BTW, using your logic...maybe UT is just a bad program and it doesn't matter who the coach is.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

First of all, Cal State Fullerton is not even close to a JUCO...it is a respected university with close to 40,000 students. It has an acceptance rate of about 40%. I am not saying it is a more respected university than UT, but let's be honest...the SEC does a great job of finding ways to give some great athletes a top flight JUCO education. You are forgetting that CDS went to UCI a school that has higher academics than UT and won there too. Instead of trying to say that Fullerton is some factory that is on auto-pilot...how about this...Horton left and has been successful at Oregon, Garrido left and was successful at Illinois and Texas, Vanderhook was a big part of the UCLA resurgence before coming back to Fullerton...maybe it is these guys can just flat out coach. I think this thread is powerful because it is examining the program. When you examine the program, sure look at the coach, but it is time to examine everything...they should be on TV, they should travel like the rest of the top teams, the recruiting budget must be higher than the top programs if you are competing for players (especially if they are out of state), you need to find ways to better fund scholarships for out of state students...obviously it is a combination of everything....Gotta outspend Hertz to beat them...Get'r done Admin!

BTW, using your logic...maybe UT is just a bad program and it doesn't matter who the coach is.

Last sentence is probably true, seeing as how our history spans about 15 years.

Serrano did win at UCI and did a good job. However, I'll also give Savage credit for laying a solid foundation. He took a program from scratch to a regional in 3 years. Horton took a program from scratch to a regional in 2 years at UO.

At this point, UT is the only program Serrano has had to try to build rather than maintain or build upon. His predecessors at his other 2 jobs have proven they're capable of doing it; he's yet to do so.

 

[ShowmeVols]

First of all, Cal State Fullerton is not even close to a JUCO...it is a respected university with close to 40,000 students.

According to my friend Mr. Google:

The average SAT score composite at Cal State Fullerton is a 1018; 1160 at UT.

The 25th percentile SAT score at Fullerton is 920; 1050 at UT.

The 75th percentile SAT score at Fullerton is 1120; 1270 at UT.

A UT student in the bottom quarter would be solidly above average at Cal State Fullerton.

An average UT student would be well above the top quarter at Cal State Fullerton

"Glorified JUCO" may have been a little bit harsh, but he had a point.

 

[HeyBuddy]

According to my friend Mr. Google:

The average SAT score composite at Cal State Fullerton is a 1018; 1160 at UT.

The 25th percentile SAT score at Fullerton is 920; 1050 at UT.

The 75th percentile SAT score at Fullerton is 1120; 1270 at UT.

A UT student in the bottom quarter would be solidly above average at Cal State Fullerton.

An average UT student would be well above the top quarter at Cal State Fullerton

"Glorified JUCO" may have been a little bit harsh, but he had a point.

He did have a point...the incoming freshmen have higher average scores...I am sure Vanderbilt considers UT to be JUCO like too, but it wouldn't be correct.

 

[HeyBuddy]

25th percentile SAT score at Vanderbilt 1410


50th percentile SAT score at Vanderbilt 1490