Sabanization

[sjt18]

Don't you get it justin? He's the only coach EVER that you can't judge by HIS record. He's the best coach in America, just ask his mommy.
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That's a poorly constructed strawman.

He will be judged by his record within the context of the situation he inherited. Hart (also a process guy) has said so. NO ONE who is saying the circumstances he inherited should be a considered thinks the last two years are good enough going forward... or even 5 years. We simply acknowledge the reality of the rosters and programs he's coached.

We should know very well this fall if his "process" is working.

 

[orangesparkles]

You STILL show no understanding of this management concept. It is a method practiced by many if not most of the most successful organizations in the world. It is NOT based on the idea that the process never fails or needs improvement. In fact, it assumes both and provides for a constant cycle of evaluation and correction.

It provides for a constant cycle of evaluation and correction, yes, but it needs to see tangible success in order to be viewed as a good process. There has to be a timeline connected to the process. Dooley has shown minimal ability to win in three years at LA Tech and two years at Tennessee.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Uh... Tennessee hasn't paid the price for success up front and it isn't willing to do so, both figuratively and literally. Alabama did, which is why the Crimson Tide went to the Sugar Bowl in Saban's second year. I could see the point of this thread if we just hired a coach with a BCS title under his belt for a tidy sum, but not every coach has the ability to focus on the little things instead of the "end game" knowing that it will eventually pay off.

Sabanization works if you're, you know, Nick Saban. It doesn't work when you've only strung together one winning record as a head coach.

It's funny...but when Saban was hired, all you read about here was how he (a) lied to MSU fans; (b) lied to LSU fans; (c) lied to Miami fans; (d) was a job-hopping liar who wouldn't last more than 3 years at Bama before hopping to his next gig.

And now, there are those here who seem to think Saban is the model for how to "win, and win big" in the SEC.

Apparently, winning induces memory loss in some of those who were previously hung up on wanting "a coach with character". I say that because we happen to have one of those here in Knoxville, and now we find a vocal element of VN that thinks if we cannot match what Saban has done in Tuscaloosa, we have hired a failure.

Dooley may, or may not, be the 2nd coming of The General. He is clearly a departure from Fulmer and Kiffin. Only time will tell. This is, we all agree, a pivotal year for Dooley.

If Dooley turns out to be a keeper, I certainly hope that those who are throwing darts at him now won't mind choking down a crow sandwich later.

After all, if you're not willing to stand behind your words, then why should we bother to read them?

Go Vols.

 

[justingroves]

I have absolutely no doubt about that. I have asked you to simply question what you THINK you already know about the outcome.

If you strip things from their context then you cannot correctly evaluate them.

And if it doesn't work then he's out even though fans like you were a pretty big factor in some of those decisions. They likely signed on thinking any rational person would know the rebuilding process might take time... then realized after two years that a sizeable chunk of the UT fanbase just wasn't that rational.
Between Kiffin and Fulmer... how many highly regarded recruits have flamed out before making a contribution? You are never going to hit 100% on things like that. Dooley specifically mentioned that there are times you take a chance on very talented but risky guys.

When you have a few years under your belt hiring people, you'll know that there are always risks that someone will not turn out the way you hope. No one escapes that.

Even Saban has highly rated guys who do not pan out.



You STILL show no understanding of this management concept. It is a method practiced by many if not most of the most successful organizations in the world. It is NOT based on the idea that the process never fails or needs improvement. In fact, it assumes both and provides for a constant cycle of evaluation and correction.

Dooley, in 5 years of being a head coach, has been mediocre at best. I have no reason to believe he'll suddenly figure it out. Sure, Bray's arm, Hunter and Da'Rick could get Tennessee to 9 wins. What happens when two once a decade WRs leave? What happens when the most physically gifted QB to play here since 1997 leaves? I do not know the outcome, but I have 5 years of data backing up what I think will happen.

Ha, they left because they didn't have faith in the "process" a career loser uses.

He has done a good job loading the DL up on JUCOs.

Dooley isn't managing a business. He's getting 18 to 22 year olds ready to win football games. It's a little different than your "managing experience"

 

[sjt18]

It provides for a constant cycle of evaluation and correction, yes, but it needs to see tangible success in order to be viewed as a good process. There has to be a timeline connected to the process. Dooley has shown minimal ability to win in three years at LA Tech and two years at Tennessee.

I agree completely. But everything has to be looked at in context. UT had major, major problems. Any rebuilding PROCESS was going to occur within the constraints of rules and time. He's lost one game he should have won at UT. He had two losses that should have been wins against better teams in strange enough fashion to cause two rules changes.

Dooley has the best talent relative to competition that he's had in his short HC career. We will see what he does with it.

 

[UTChicagoV]

This hurts my head.

His process, in 5 years as a HC, has resulted in one winning season. His biggest wins in his career were either beating a 4-8 Mississippi State team at La Tech or beating the 2011 Liberty Bowl participants.

His process has led to constant staff turnover in his time here. He's replaced 8 assistants in two years.

He's had two highly regarded recruits flame out in back to back fall camps (Pat Martin and Bourque).

So, he doesn't need to mention his process any longer.

So you're telling me that it isn't worth waiting out a guy that went to one of the worst programs in the nation and in 3 years was able to recruit and coach them to their first bowl win in 30 years?

Derek Dooley Breathes New Life into Louisiana Tech Athletics - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Dooley has restocked and turned around a program before (he's turned around an entire Athletic Dept if you take into account his impact as an AD). And IMO, he's on his way to doing it again. It's too bad he has to deal with asinine fans that can't grasp the bigger picture while he does it.

Also, not sure how Pat Martin realizing he wouldn't start immediately and leave has to do with Dooley? I guess you would have started him even if he wasn't good enough? Bourque left due to personal issues at home...what makes you think that those same issues (rumored to be due to a girlfriend & baby) wouldn't have hit him at another school? Those are two instances where you can't really place the blame on Dooley...no matter how hard you try.

 

[sjt18]

Dooley, in 5 years of being a head coach, has been mediocre at best.

I am not saying results have been better than mediocre. I AM saying that the situations he has dealt with have been significantly worse than normal.

I have no reason to believe he'll suddenly figure it out.

Nor do you have a real good reason to assume he won't. Just let the facts lead to your conclusions. We will have them soon.

but I have 5 years of data backing up what I think will happen.

You have five years of data where Dooley had a roster with depth, experience, and talent?

Ha, they left because they didn't have faith in the "process" a career loser uses.

Some left because they were told they weren't getting extensions until they performed. Wilcox and Sirmon left because they weren't willing to take the risk that this year wouldn't be good enough to satisfy you "reasonable" folk.

He has done a good job loading the DL up on JUCOs.

Is the QB position better than when he arrived? OL? Receiver? LB? DB?

The answer to all those questions is "Yes". At the worst, he has built the program to a point where if he gets canned after this year UT will be able to attract a more accomplished coach.

Dooley isn't managing a business. He's getting 18 to 22 year olds ready to win football games. It's a little different than your "managing experience"

Not according to the most successful active HC. That's what the whole article was about. I have had multiple seminars at multiple companies that taught the same fundamentals. It works for ANY activity that involve people functioning to do "work".

 

[sjt18]

I've never.... EVER said that Dooley was going to succeed. I have just chosen to let him show us before drawing a conclusion.

However, I will wear you guys out if he "figures it out".

 

[GmanTN]

It just amazes me how some people are so judgemental without ever opening the book and reading it first. It doesn't matter that we had a roster that by SEC standards was a joke in 2010. Players that Kiffin recruited and signed his only year here did not pan out and left the program with the exception of Bray and Teague. For all the obstacles and hurdles that this program has had to overcome for fans to think the way they do is beyond stupid. One cannot logically set expectations unless you have what is needed to reach those expectations. For any fan to claim to be knowledgeable in football to think starting a mostly all freshmen OL in 2010 and have that same line return in 2011 and expect kids to be ready to compete against the best defenses in the country, well then you have much to learn about football. I don't want to hear the OL regressed BS, the schedule was much tougher in 2011 than what it was in 2010, lack of coaching by the line coach, no senior leadership or any player on the line to step up and take the lead.

Ask yourself with the new coaching staff, those freshmen players in 2010 now with 2 years in S&C, the hiring of Jay Graham that this team seems much better prepared to play in this conference and compete than what it did since 2007.

 

[Spartacavolus]

I knew there was a circus around somewhere and I finally found the clowns.

God forbid a coach try to emulate the style of his mentor and one of the top college football coaches of all time. Dooley sure is stupid to try such a thing. Can't believe it didn't work in 2 years with CUSA talent.

 

[UTChicagoV]

It just amazes me how some people are so judgemental without ever opening the book and reading it first. It doesn't matter that we had a roster that by SEC standards was a joke in 2010. Players that Kiffin recruited and signed his only year here did not pan out and left the program with the exception of Bray and Teague. For all the obstacles and hurdles that this program has had to overcome for fans to think the way they do is beyond stupid. One cannot logically set expectations unless you have what is needed to reach those expectations. For any fan to claim to be knowledgeable in football to think starting a mostly all freshmen OL in 2010 and have that same line return in 2011 and expect kids to be ready to compete against the best defenses in the country, well then you have much to learn about football. I don't want to hear the OL regressed BS, the schedule was much tougher in 2011 than what it was in 2010, lack of coaching by the line coach, no senior leadership or any player on the line to step up and take the lead.

Ask yourself with the new coaching staff, those freshmen players in 2010 now with 2 years in S&C, the hiring of Jay Graham that this team seems much better prepared to play in this conference and compete than what it did since 2007.

I knew there was a circus around somewhere and I finally found the clowns.

God forbid a coach try to emulate the style of his mentor and one of the top college football coaches of all time. Dooley sure is stupid to try such a thing. Can't believe it didn't work in 2 years with CUSA talent.

Facts don't go over too well with some VN posters...