Sabanization

[justingroves]

BTW, there was a report that came out early in DD's tenure from someone who had followed Saban for a long while... it said Dooley was the most "Saban-like" of all the assistants that observer had seen. Numerous things from this article have been reportedly done by DD.... like having practice schedules done more than a year in advance, big facility upgrades, academic and character support/training, recruit scoring system that incorporates character but basically ignores the public recruiting hype sites, etc.

We will soon see if he can get it done on game day but he seems to have made a lot of progress on the infrastructure needed to win.

When he has Saban-like results, he'll be fine.

Saban worked under Belicheck and Don James, two pretty damn good coaches.

Dooley was a position coach for Saban, never an OC or DC.

Their resumes aren't comparable.

It's easy to talk about a "process" when you've won some ball games. When the process has a career record of 28-33 and one winning season in 5 tries, shutup and win ball games.

 

[sjt18]

So hiring a NC caliber coach wasn't a big deal, just the fact Tennessee hired an alum was? Right....

Disagree with that, but the staff he built were all big names in their own right with the exception of Reaves.

There was nothing in Kiffin's resume that said he was any more of a NC caliber coach than was in Dooley's unless you just believe Carroll's model at USC vs the Pac10 would work better than Saban's model that worked at two different SEC programs.

 

[VolsRule]

Saban has won 3 titles, including 2 of last 3

He won the title in his 4th year at lsu and third year at alabama

dooley needs to do whatever saban is doing--it works.

 

[sjt18]

When he has Saban-like results, he'll be fine.

Agree. And we can evaluate that when his roster is in the same cosmos as Saban's. Not equal but at least something to work with. S/B this year btw. Unlike many here, I think 8 wins would be an underachievement with this roster after 3 years. With Hunter and Bray last year, I think they were a 7 win team. Accepting 8 wins would be like accepting one more win as "progress". I don't think it would be.

Saban worked under Belicheck and Don James, two pretty damn good coaches.

Dooley was a position coach for Saban, never an OC or DC.

Their resumes aren't comparable.

That matters before someone is hired... not after.

I have hired many people. A resume gets you in the door. I have had situations where I culled through my first and second level applicants without success before interviewing someone with a lesser resume who turned out to be a great hire.

Point is... a resume is about what you've done. It is not a limit on what you are capable of doing.

It's easy to talk about a "process" when you've won some ball games. When the process has a career record of 28-33 and one winning season in 5 tries, shutup and win ball games.

Do you really not get it or is the contempt you feel for Dooley just that blinding?

Saban wins because he focuses on the "process"- the steps you take to achieve the excellence that translates to winning.

Dooley's only real hope of winning is to NOT focus on those past results and just "win ball games" but to establish an ever improving "process" that creates desirable results as a natural outcome.

 

[bamawriter]

I don't disagree with you sjt. But before we go painting Dooley as the closest thing to Saban out there: Saban has never resorted to the odd motivational tactics that Dooley likes to trot out.

 

[UTChicagoV]

BTW, there was a report that came out early in DD's tenure from someone who had followed Saban for a long while... it said Dooley was the most "Saban-like" of all the assistants that observer had seen. Numerous things from this article have been reportedly done by DD.... like having practice schedules done more than a year in advance, big facility upgrades, academic and character support/training, recruit scoring system that incorporates character but basically ignores the public recruiting hype sites, etc.

We will soon see if he can get it done on game day but he seems to have made a lot of progress on the infrastructure needed to win.

I'd have to agree. Apart from the games, he's been very much like Saban. Things like how he handles the media, his attention to minor details, the recruiting, etc. We'll see how he does on the field this year...he finally has a team that IMO is capable of competing and winning. Even if it isn't him calling the plays, he has surrounded himself with capable coaches (jury's still out on Chaney).

 

[sjt18]

I don't disagree with you sjt. But before we go painting Dooley as the closest thing to Saban out there: Saban has never resorted to the odd motivational tactics that Dooley likes to trot out.

I hope he isn't the same. Seldom can one company or person take the exact style and methods of someone else and beat them at it. It is mostly about the near obsession with the "process" oriented style of management.

This was popularized in the private business world before James apparently picked it up and applied it to coaching. It works but the degree of success STILL comes down to the people and their unique abilities. Someone has to make decisions. Those decisions at each point in the process will ultimately produce the result.

Saban has proven his ability to make the right decisions and surround himself with people who do the same. Dooley... we don't know yet.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

BTW, there was a report that came out early in DD's tenure from someone who had followed Saban for a long while... it said Dooley was the most "Saban-like" of all the assistants that observer had seen. Numerous things from this article have been reportedly done by DD.... like having practice schedules done more than a year in advance, big facility upgrades, academic and character support/training, recruit scoring system that incorporates character but basically ignores the public recruiting hype sites, etc.

We will soon see if he can get it done on game day but he seems to have made a lot of progress on the infrastructure needed to win.

A friend of mine who is a UT fan took his son to see Saban speak somewhere last year. He said he got the opportunity to speak to Coach Saban afterwards, told him he was a Tennessee fan and he said Saban flat out told him that "Coach Dooley WILL get it done here at UT if fans will be patient and give him enough time." He said Saban spoke very highly of Dooley, talked about how process-oriented he is and said that's what it takes to succeed in college football.

 

[knoxvols1]

This whole mess with Saban reminds me of Kiffen and the "USC" Pete Carrol stuff! Build our own program!:salute:

 

[UTChicagoV]

A friend of mine who is a UT fan took his son to see Saban speak somewhere last year. He said he got the opportunity to speak to Coach Saban afterwards, told him he was a Tennessee fan and he said Saban flat out told him that "Coach Dooley WILL get it done here at UT if fans will be patient and give him enough time." He said Saban spoke very highly of Dooley, talked about how process-oriented he is and said that's what it takes to succeed in college football.

This has been noted numerous times...like in the article below...

Nick Saban defends Derek Dooley's time at UT » GoVolsXtra

In the coaching world, 6 years is a long time to keep someone around if you don't think highly of them. Saban didn't take him to Bama because Dooley decided to go it alone at LaTech. IMO, if Dooley is canned here, he will likely be back on Saban's staff.

 

[UTChicagoV]

This whole mess with Saban reminds me of Kiffen and the "USC" Pete Carrol stuff! Build our own program!:salute:

Everyone mimics someone else...it's just how it is. I'd rather be modeled after a winning program (rival or not) than a losing one...

 

[VolBeef88]

I don't think it's fair to blame it solely on Hamilton. He made plenty of mistakes, but if the school had been committed to getting a big name coach, then Hamilton wouldn't have been as financially hamstrung. The AD doesn't set his own budget.

Part of his job is to get the budget approval. But the reality is he had support. It's on him more than any other individual.
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[VolBeef88]

A friend of mine who is a UT fan took his son to see Saban speak somewhere last year. He said he got the opportunity to speak to Coach Saban afterwards, told him he was a Tennessee fan and he said Saban flat out told him that "Coach Dooley WILL get it done here at UT if fans will be patient and give him enough time." He said Saban spoke very highly of Dooley, talked about how process-oriented he is and said that's what it takes to succeed in college football.

I've NEVER, EVER seen where a coach had anything negative to say about one of their former asst who is a head coach. EVER in college or NFL.
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[azVolFan]

I've NEVER, EVER seen where a coach had anything negative to say about one of their former asst who is a head coach. EVER in college or NFL.
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Not saying something negative is not exactly the opposite of saying something positive.

 

[VolBeef88]

Not saying something negative is not exactly the opposite of saying something positive.

He was asked a question about Dooley. He had to answer or it would be a huge insult.

I can see it now.

Questioner: "Coach Saban, what is your opinion of coach Dooley at Tennessee?"

Saban: "Next question"

Haha
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[azVolFan]

He was asked a question about Dooley. He had to answer or it would be a huge insult.
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There are many directions he could have gone with an answer - he chose high praise. I hope for all of us that he was honest is his assessment. Of course I don't *know* if he was.

 

[VolBeef88]

There are many directions he could have gone with an answer - he chose high praise. I hope for all of us that he was honest is his assessment. Of course I don't *know* if he was.

I read nothing by Saban that's much different than what other coaches say about former asst.
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[azVolFan]

He was asked a question about Dooley. He had to answer or it would be a huge insult.

I can see it now.

Questioner: "Coach Saban, what is your opinion of coach Dooley at Tennessee?"

Saban: "Next question"

Haha
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I get what you're saying. It's in the *I want to believe it* category and he DID have to answer the question.

Think about it from Dooley's perspective. He knows whether Saban's comments are honest. If they aren't then it's a serious insult and they both know it.

 

[VolBeef88]

There are many directions he could have gone with an answer - he chose high praise. I hope for all of us that he was honest is his assessment. Of course I don't *know* if he was.

In this instance I'm not saying anything negative about Saban or Dooley. It's just standard coach speak.
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[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

This whole mess with Saban reminds me of Kiffen and the "USC" Pete Carrol stuff! Build our own program!:salute:

Except that Kifin said several times that he wanted to turn us into the USC of the south. I've never heard Dooley say he wanted to turn us into the next Alabama. That's the fans making the comparison.
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[VolBeef88]

I get what you're saying. It's in the *I want to believe it* category and he DID have to answer the question.

Think about it from Dooley's perspective. He knows whether Saban's comments are honest. If they aren't then it's a serious insult and they both know it.

Obviously the 2 get a long and have a good relationship. Dooley is a likable guy and probably a capable asst. One thing that stands out to me however about his tenure with Saban is he was never named an OC or DC.
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[justingroves]

There was nothing in Kiffin's resume that said he was any more of a NC caliber coach than was in Dooley's unless you just believe Carroll's model at USC vs the Pac10 would work better than Saban's model that worked at two different SEC programs.

He assembled a top notch staff and was more than a position coach

 

[Brave Volunteer]

He was asked a question about Dooley. He had to answer or it would be a huge insult.

I can see it now.

Questioner: "Coach Saban, what is your opinion of coach Dooley at Tennessee?"

Saban: "Next question"

Haha
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My friend did not ASK Saban anything. He simply told Saban that he was a Tennessee fan and Saban OFFERED him his thoughts on Dooley. To me, that says Saban was being cordial to a rival fan and took it upon himself to give him his honest opinion. There were no cameras. No reporters with microphones in his face. Nothing like that.

 

[sjt18]

He was asked a question about Dooley. He had to answer or it would be a huge insult.

I can see it now.

Questioner: "Coach Saban, what is your opinion of coach Dooley at Tennessee?"

Saban: "Next question"

Haha
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Could have said: "I have known Coach Dooley for a long time. He's a talented coach. I wish him nothing but the best at UT." Nice platitude. Nothing to write about.

It would also not be an endorsement.

 

[sjt18]

He assembled a top notch staff and was more than a position coach

And was notably unstable, had difficulty getting along with his boss, apparently lost his players in Oakland, was associated with the Bush mess,...

There were ALOT of reasons not to hire Kiffin. One of them came to fruition with UT narrowly avoiding some suffering.